The United Methodist Schism

[dreadnought]

I have no worries about him, or anyone else there.

That is good to hear.

 

[dreadnought]

The Methodist church is a bit different from others in how pastors are appointed. In the PCUSA the church calls the pastor, so the situation you're concerned about wouldn't happen. No one can force a pastor on a congregation. Our problem is that some congregations don't want to be in the same denomination as people who accept gays, even if it has no impact on them directly.

All the proposals I've seen for the Methodists allow congregations choice. Some people envision separate jurisdictions and conferences. You'd actually be better off if a proposal to allow gays passes, since those proposals would provide for churches that disagree. Without that, the denomination is likely to split along jurisdictional boundaries. Churches that disagree with their jurisdiction are going to be in for trouble of one kind or another, depending upon State law.

As far as I can tell, there are currently two proposals being considered. One is effectively local option within the current structure. The other is an internal split, with two branches of some sort within the same denomination.

A United Methodist Church would have a Pastor-Parish Relations Committee that communicates with the bishop about the type of pastor they want. The Pastor-Parish Relations Committee can be populated with people who have no sense.

 

[GoodLightSJ]

The church that I'm a part of is in an interesting spot, as well: there haven't been any new members in close to a year. From what I gather, it looks like we recently went an entire calendar year without a single new member, too. We're located in a large town, and given how big the UMC is (even with denomination-wide membership declines), it does make me wonder about the future.

 

[seeking.IAM]

A United Methodist Church would have a Pastor-Parish Relations Committee that communicates with the bishop about the type of pastor they want. The Pastor-Parish Relations Committee can be populated with people who have no sense.

As a former chair of a UMC pastor-parish committee, I can tell you that the committee's communication to the Bishop does not necessarily hold any influence. Bishops do what Bishops do.

 

[dreadnought]

The church that I'm a part of is in an interesting spot, as well: there haven't been any new members in close to a year. From what I gather, it looks like we recently went an entire calendar year without a single new member, too. We're located in a large town, and given how big the UMC is (even with denomination-wide membership declines), it does make me wonder about the future.

Our church lost about half its membership, I think, over the last six years. We'll be getting a new pastor in July.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Our church lost about half its membership, I think, over the last six years. We'll be getting a new pastor in July.

Did you directly have a say so about the new pastor?

 

[dreadnought]

Did you directly have a say so about the new pastor?

No, it happened very suddenly and I'm not on the Pastor-Parish Relations Committee. I did write a letter to the bishop and all the members of the cabinet, but the bishop was away, and I didn't hear back from the bishop until after the appointment had been made. And all she said was that she'd referred the matter to our superintendent and Pastor-Parish Committee.

 

[1stcenturylady]

No, it happened very suddenly and I'm not on the Pastor-Parish Relations Committee. I did write a letter to the bishop and all the members of the cabinet, but the bishop was away, and I didn't hear back from the bishop until after the appointment had been made. And all she said was that she'd referred the matter to our superintendent and Pastor-Parish Committee.

Did you express concern that the new pastor be biblically correct, and not politically correct?

 

[dreadnought]

Did you express concern that the new pastor be biblically correct, and not politically correct?

I said this:

"I understand you will soon be sending us a new pastor. The Lord taught us that homosexuality is a sin (Lev 18:22), so please don’t send a pastor who preaches that homosexuality is NOT a sin."

 

[1stcenturylady]

I said this:

"I understand you will soon be sending us a new pastor. The Lord taught us that homosexuality is a sin (Lev 18:22), so please don’t send a pastor who preaches that homosexuality is NOT a sin."

The pastors that teach the heresy, what scripture do they base it on?

 

[dreadnought]

The pastors that teach the heresy, what scripture do they base it on?

I think they use various rationalizations. I think they are motivated by pride. They want to be popular.

 

[circuitrider]

I've come to believe what really matters is what is happening in the local church. If you can take a stand in your church, perhaps you can keep your pastor from leading the congregation astray. Don't forget Leviticus 18:22.

And while you aren’t forgetting Levitical, if your intention is to follow the Jewish Holiness Code out of that book to oppose LGBTQ inclusion, you also have to give up eating shell fish and shrimp, stop wearing clothing of mixed fabrics (no poly Cotten blend shirts), probably change the way you cut your hair, and eat kosher. (No bacon or ham for you!)

And, if you are going to stand up for the sexual morality of the Bible you will need to support poligamy, as it is supported in the Old Testment, and also make sure that parents all decide who their children are going to marry since marrying for love isn’t a part of Biblical marriage, most all marriages were arranged.

You may also finding yourself having to support slavery, as the Bible supports it, and oppose women’s rights.

Unless of course you are willing to realize that the eternal teachings in the Bible from Jesus supersede the both the Jewish law and the cultural practices of the 1st century. Then we might really be able to have a discussion about what is sexually permissible versus sexually permissive.

 

[dreadnought]

And while you aren’t forgetting Levitical, if your intention is to follow the Jewish Holiness Code out of that book to oppose LGBTQ inclusion, you also have to give up eating shell fish and shrimp, stop wearing clothing of mixed fabrics (no poly Cotten blend shirts), probably change the way you cut your hair, and eat kosher. (No bacon or ham for you!)

And, if you are going to stand up for the sexual morality of the Bible you will need to support poligamy, as it is supported in the Old Testment, and also make sure that parents all decide who their children are going to marry since marrying for love isn’t a part of Biblical marriage, most all marriages were arranged.

You may also finding yourself having to support slavery, as the Bible supports it, and oppose women’s rights.

Unless of course you are willing to realize that the eternal teachings in the Bible from Jesus supersede the both the Jewish law and the cultural practices of the 1st century. Then we might really be able to have a discussion about what is sexually permissible versus sexually permissive.

What is the "Jewish Holiness Code"? My wish is that church leaders stop saying that sin isn't sin. I've never suggested homosexuals be excluded from church or harassed.

 

[food4thought]

What is the "Jewish Holiness Code"?

I think he is referring to the Law of Moses, in other words, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. I may be mistaken, and he could be talking about the Old Testament.

My wish is that church leaders stop saying that sin isn't sin.

AMEN!!!

I've never suggested homosexuals be excluded from church or harassed.

Exactly. I do think unrepentant, practicing homosexuals should not hold church office per 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1.

 

[hedrick]

I think he is referring to the Law of Moses, in other words, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. I may be mistaken, and he could be talking about the Old Testament.

No, Lev 17 - 26. Holiness code - Wikipedia.

 

[dreadnought]

I think he is referring to the Law of Moses, in other words, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. I may be mistaken, and he could be talking about the Old Testament.



AMEN!!!



Exactly. I do think unrepentant, practicing homosexuals should not hold church office per 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1.

Our bishop is a lesbian.

 

[food4thought]

No, Lev 17 - 26. Holiness code - Wikipedia.

Thanks for clarifying that for me, Hedrick.

 

[food4thought]

Our bishop is a lesbian.

I'm sorry to hear that.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Our bishop is a lesbian.

I didn't know that.
And you are still there?

 

[Dave-W]

No, Lev 17 - 26. Holiness code - Wikipedia.

Our bishop is a lesbian.

And there is NOTHING in the Holiness Code (or anywhere else in the OT for that matter) to prohibit lesbian relations. Plenty on male homosexuality but not one word on the female equivalent.