Deadworm
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- May 26, 2016
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aiki: ""Paul does not wrongly muzzle women on the grounds of women being morally inferior to men. He says in the passage above only that Eve was deceived (not morally inferior) when Adam was not."
You are oblivious to both the literary context and the broader cultural context.
(1) What you don't get is the fact that the author of 1 Timothy (not Paul!) Eve is deceived is used both to stereotype women's weak character and as grounds to deny women the right "to teach or have authority over a man." Indeed, in creation women are treated as an afterthought to prevent men from being lonely. And the author overlooks the fact that Adam is present at the Serpent's deception, and is equally deceived and culpable.
(2) 1 Timothy 2:9-15 is a typical expression of the broader misogynist contemporary Jewish culture. For example, in the Catholic OT we read: "Better is the wickedness of a man than a woman who does good (Sirach 42:14)." "Even the most virtuous woman is a witch (Midhnah Terum 15)." "Whoever speaks much with a woman brings misfortune on himself, neglects the words of the Law, and finally earns Hell (Mishnah Aboth 1:5)." Women didn't even count towards a quorum necessary to form a worshiping community (Mishnah Aboth 3:6).
Aiki: "As far as I'm concerned, the deutero-Pauline debate is a post-modernist load of nonsense, in no small part provoked by - and pandering to - the modern hard-line, leftist/"progressive," third-wave feminist ideology of the identicality of the sexes."
You need to season your penchant for bluster here with a modicum of intellectual rigor by actually learning Greek well enough to grasp the many arguments invoked by liberal and conservative Bible scholars against Pauline authorship of the Pastorals. Otherwise, you are pontificating from ignorance, like most Fundamentalists.
AIKI: "Paul says nothing here about a woman prophesying or praying in church."
On the contrary, women are required to cover their heads in public worship "for the sake of the angels" who are present during corporate worship (1 Corinthians 11:5, 10). The belief that angels are present during corporate worship is traceable to the Qumran Essenes.
c
You are oblivious to both the literary context and the broader cultural context.
(1) What you don't get is the fact that the author of 1 Timothy (not Paul!) Eve is deceived is used both to stereotype women's weak character and as grounds to deny women the right "to teach or have authority over a man." Indeed, in creation women are treated as an afterthought to prevent men from being lonely. And the author overlooks the fact that Adam is present at the Serpent's deception, and is equally deceived and culpable.
(2) 1 Timothy 2:9-15 is a typical expression of the broader misogynist contemporary Jewish culture. For example, in the Catholic OT we read: "Better is the wickedness of a man than a woman who does good (Sirach 42:14)." "Even the most virtuous woman is a witch (Midhnah Terum 15)." "Whoever speaks much with a woman brings misfortune on himself, neglects the words of the Law, and finally earns Hell (Mishnah Aboth 1:5)." Women didn't even count towards a quorum necessary to form a worshiping community (Mishnah Aboth 3:6).
Aiki: "As far as I'm concerned, the deutero-Pauline debate is a post-modernist load of nonsense, in no small part provoked by - and pandering to - the modern hard-line, leftist/"progressive," third-wave feminist ideology of the identicality of the sexes."
You need to season your penchant for bluster here with a modicum of intellectual rigor by actually learning Greek well enough to grasp the many arguments invoked by liberal and conservative Bible scholars against Pauline authorship of the Pastorals. Otherwise, you are pontificating from ignorance, like most Fundamentalists.
AIKI: "Paul says nothing here about a woman prophesying or praying in church."
On the contrary, women are required to cover their heads in public worship "for the sake of the angels" who are present during corporate worship (1 Corinthians 11:5, 10). The belief that angels are present during corporate worship is traceable to the Qumran Essenes.
c
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