Against Those Who Reject Mary as the Mother of God

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God has no mother:

I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end (Revelation 22:13 NASB)​

The pre-incarnate Jesus (Word) existed before Mary was even born. All things came into being through the pre-incarnate Jesus, including Mary:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. (John 1:1-3 NASB)​

“Standing near the cross were Jesus’ mother, and his mother’s sister, Mary (the wife of Clopas), and Mary Magdalene.”
‭‭John‬ ‭19:25‬ ‭NLT‬‬

“Then Jesus’ mother and brothers came to see him, but they couldn’t get to him because of the crowd.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭8:19‬ ‭NLT‬‬

“The next day there was a wedding celebration in the village of Cana in Galilee. Jesus’ mother was there,”
‭‭John‬ ‭2:1‬ ‭NLT‬‬
 
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Theophan

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According to the Bible who was Mary’s Son?
The following is sarcasm in agreement with your position:

Umm... wasn't it Jesus, the Son of God, and God Himself? Wait a minute! I see what you did there! But...but... God has no mother!

Yes, we are not saying that Mary created God or that she begot the Son. We are saying that God was born of Mary in the person of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
 
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Tayla

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we proclaim the holy Virgin to be in strict truth the Mother of God
Mary is the mother of God because Jesus is God, and she is the mother of Jesus. This idea was introduced to combat a heresy that the body of Jesus was not God and, therefore, Mary was the mother only of this non-God physical body of Jesus.

No one who teaches Mary is the mother of God actually believes she is some way above God, or equal to God. It only has to do with who was in her womb.
 
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BNR32FAN

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I just want to say that if someone doesn’t care to use the term Mother of God that’s fine but you shouldn’t refute Catholics who do use the term because the Catholic teaching of the term does not imply that Jesus didn’t exist before His birth into the world. Please read this written in 431AD when the Roman church was still united with the Catholic Church. The term Mother of God existed long before the schism of 1054AD and long before the Roman church began its errors. It is also taught by the Orthodox Church which has kept the teachings of the apostles since the beginning of Christianity. It explains exactly what Mother of God means.

The holy and great Synod therefore says, that the only begotten Son, born according to nature of God the Father, very God of very God, Light of Light, by whom the Father made all things, came down, and was incarnate, and was made man, suffered, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven. These words and these decrees we ought to follow, considering what is meant by the Word of God being incarnate and made man. For we do not say that the nature of the Word was changed and became flesh, or that it was converted into a whole man consisting of soul and body; but rather that the Word having personally united to himself flesh animated by a rational soul, did in an ineffable and inconceivable manner become man, and was called the Son of Man, not merely as willing or being pleased to be so called, neither on account of taking to himself a person, but because the two natures being brought together in a true union, there is of both one Christ and one Son; for the difference of the natures is not taken away by the union, but rather the divinity and the humanity make perfect for us the one Lord Jesus Christ by their ineffable and inexpressible union. So then he who had an existence before all ages and was born of the Father, is said to have been born according to the flesh of a woman, not as though his divine nature received its beginning of existence in the holy Virgin, for it needed not any second generation after that of the Father (for it would be absurd and foolish to say that he who existed before all ages, coeternal with the Father, needed any second beginning of existence), but since, for us and for our salvation, he personally united to himself an human body, and came forth of a woman, he is in this way said to be born after the flesh; for he was not first born a common man of the holy Virgin, and then the Word came down and entered into him, but the union being made in the womb itself, he is said to endure a birth after the flesh, ascribing to himself the birth of his own flesh. On this account we say that he suffered and rose again; not as if God the Word suffered in his own nature stripes, or the piercing of the nails, or any other wounds, for the Divine nature is incapable of suffering, inasmuch as it is incorporeal, but since that which had become his own body suffered in this way, he is also said to suffer for us; for he who is in himself incapable of suffering was in a suffering body. In the same manner also we conceive respecting his dying; for the Word of God is by nature immortal and incorruptible, and life and life-giving; since, however, his own body did, as Paul says, by the grace of God taste death for every man, he himself is said to have suffered death for us, not as if he had any experience of death in his own nature (for it would be madness to say or think this), but because, as I have just said, his flesh tasted death. In like manner his flesh being raised again, it is spoken of as his resurrection, not as if he had fallen into corruption (God forbid), but because his own body was raised again. We, therefore, confess one Christ and Lord, not as worshipping a man with the Word (lest this expression “with the Word” should suggest to the mind the idea of division), but worshipping him as one and the same, forasmuch as the body of the Word, with which he sits with the Father, is not separated from the Word himself, not as if two sons were sitting with him, but one by the union with the flesh. If, however, we reject the personal union as impossible or unbecoming, we fall into the error of speaking of two sons, for it will be necessary to distinguish, and to say, that he who was properly man was honoured with the appellation of Son, and that he who is properly the Word of God, has by nature both the name and the reality of Sonship. We must not, therefore, divide the one Lord Jesus Christ into two Sons. Neither will it at all avail to a sound faith to hold, as some do, an union of persons; for the Scripture has not said that the Word united to himself the person of man, but that he was made flesh. This expression, however, “the Word was made flesh,” can mean nothing else but that he partook of flesh and blood like to us; he made our body his own, and came forth man from a woman, not casting off his existence as God, or his generation of God the Father, but even in taking to himself flesh remaining what he was. This the declaration of the correct faith proclaims everywhere. This was the sentiment of the holy Fathers; therefore they ventured to call the holy Virgin, the Mother of God, not as if the nature of the Word or his divinity had its beginning from the holy Virgin, but because of her was born that holy body with a rational soul, to which the Word being personally united is said to be born according to the flesh. These things, therefore, I now write unto you for the love of Christ, beseeching you as a brother, and testifying to you before Christ and the elect angels, that you would both think and teach these things with us, that the peace of the Churches may be preserved and the bond of concord and love continue unbroken amongst the Priests of God. Send greetings to the brothers who are with you. Those who are with me send greetings in Christ.
 
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Theophan

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Mary is the mother of God because Jesus is God, and she is the mother of Jesus. This idea was introduced to combat a heresy that the body of Jesus was not God and, therefore, Mary was the mother only of this non-God physical body of Jesus.

No one who teaches Mary is the mother of God actually believes she is some way above God, or equal to God. It only has to do with who was in her womb.

Correct. Why is this so hard to accept?
 
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Theophan

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I just want to say that if someone doesn’t care to use the term Mother of God that’s fine but you shouldn’t refute Catholics who do use the term because the Catholic teaching of the term does not imply that Jesus didn’t exist before His birth into the world. Please read this written in 431AD when the Roman church was still united with the Catholic Church. The term Mother of God existed long before the schism of 1054AD and long before the Roman church began its errors. It is also taught by the Orthodox Church which has kept the teachings of the apostles since the beginning of Christianity. It explains exactly what Mother of God means.

The holy and great Synod therefore says, that the only begotten Son, born according to nature of God the Father, very God of very God, Light of Light, by whom the Father made all things, came down, and was incarnate, and was made man, suffered, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven. These words and these decrees we ought to follow, considering what is meant by the Word of God being incarnate and made man. For we do not say that the nature of the Word was changed and became flesh, or that it was converted into a whole man consisting of soul and body; but rather that the Word having personally united to himself flesh animated by a rational soul, did in an ineffable and inconceivable manner become man, and was called the Son of Man, not merely as willing or being pleased to be so called, neither on account of taking to himself a person, but because the two natures being brought together in a true union, there is of both one Christ and one Son; for the difference of the natures is not taken away by the union, but rather the divinity and the humanity make perfect for us the one Lord Jesus Christ by their ineffable and inexpressible union. So then he who had an existence before all ages and was born of the Father, is said to have been born according to the flesh of a woman, not as though his divine nature received its beginning of existence in the holy Virgin, for it needed not any second generation after that of the Father (for it would be absurd and foolish to say that he who existed before all ages, coeternal with the Father, needed any second beginning of existence), but since, for us and for our salvation, he personally united to himself an human body, and came forth of a woman, he is in this way said to be born after the flesh; for he was not first born a common man of the holy Virgin, and then the Word came down and entered into him, but the union being made in the womb itself, he is said to endure a birth after the flesh, ascribing to himself the birth of his own flesh. On this account we say that he suffered and rose again; not as if God the Word suffered in his own nature stripes, or the piercing of the nails, or any other wounds, for the Divine nature is incapable of suffering, inasmuch as it is incorporeal, but since that which had become his own body suffered in this way, he is also said to suffer for us; for he who is in himself incapable of suffering was in a suffering body. In the same manner also we conceive respecting his dying; for the Word of God is by nature immortal and incorruptible, and life and life-giving; since, however, his own body did, as Paul says, by the grace of God taste death for every man, he himself is said to have suffered death for us, not as if he had any experience of death in his own nature (for it would be madness to say or think this), but because, as I have just said, his flesh tasted death. In like manner his flesh being raised again, it is spoken of as his resurrection, not as if he had fallen into corruption (God forbid), but because his own body was raised again. We, therefore, confess one Christ and Lord, not as worshipping a man with the Word (lest this expression “with the Word” should suggest to the mind the idea of division), but worshipping him as one and the same, forasmuch as the body of the Word, with which he sits with the Father, is not separated from the Word himself, not as if two sons were sitting with him, but one by the union with the flesh. If, however, we reject the personal union as impossible or unbecoming, we fall into the error of speaking of two sons, for it will be necessary to distinguish, and to say, that he who was properly man was honoured with the appellation of Son, and that he who is properly the Word of God, has by nature both the name and the reality of Sonship. We must not, therefore, divide the one Lord Jesus Christ into two Sons. Neither will it at all avail to a sound faith to hold, as some do, an union of persons; for the Scripture has not said that the Word united to himself the person of man, but that he was made flesh. This expression, however, “the Word was made flesh,” can mean nothing else but that he partook of flesh and blood like to us; he made our body his own, and came forth man from a woman, not casting off his existence as God, or his generation of God the Father, but even in taking to himself flesh remaining what he was. This the declaration of the correct faith proclaims everywhere. This was the sentiment of the holy Fathers; therefore they ventured to call the holy Virgin, the Mother of God, not as if the nature of the Word or his divinity had its beginning from the holy Virgin, but because of her was born that holy body with a rational soul, to which the Word being personally united is said to be born according to the flesh. These things, therefore, I now write unto you for the love of Christ, beseeching you as a brother, and testifying to you before Christ and the elect angels, that you would both think and teach these things with us, that the peace of the Churches may be preserved and the bond of concord and love continue unbroken amongst the Priests of God. Send greetings to the brothers who are with you. Those who are with me send greetings in Christ.
Yes, the holy fathers, inspired by the Holy Spirit, put it quite nicely.
 
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BNR32FAN

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The following is sarcasm in agreement with your position:

Umm... wasn't it Jesus, the Son of God, and God Himself? Wait a minute! I see what you did there! But...but... God has no mother!

Yes, we are not saying that Mary created God or that she begot the Son. We are saying that God was born of Mary in the person of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

Brother I know you are frustrated but a condescending manner will not help others to admit their mistake. It only forces a defensive position and strengthens their desire to disagree. Bless you
 
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Theophan

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Brother I know you are frustrated but a condescending manner will not help others to admit their mistake. It only forces a defensive position and strengthens their desire to disagree. Bless you

I am quite stiff-necked and foolish and incredibly sinful. I don't see myself as better than others, but I do not speak with meekness when referring to the arguments of others who I believe to be in error. Yes, I hear what you are saying, and I am not learning this lesson as I should be.
 
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Philip_B

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I just want to say that if someone doesn’t care to use the term Mother of God that’s fine but you shouldn’t refute Catholics who do use the term because the Catholic teaching of the term does not imply that Jesus didn’t exist before His birth into the world. Please read this written in 431AD when the Roman church was still united with the Catholic Church. The term Mother of God existed long before the schism of 1054AD and long before the Roman church began its errors. It is also taught by the Orthodox Church which has kept the teachings of the apostles since the beginning of Christianity. It explains exactly what Mother of God means.

The holy and great Synod therefore says, that the only begotten Son, born according to nature of God the Father, very God of very God, Light of Light, by whom the Father made all things, came down, and was incarnate, and was made man, suffered, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven. These words and these decrees we ought to follow, considering what is meant by the Word of God being incarnate and made man. For we do not say that the nature of the Word was changed and became flesh, or that it was converted into a whole man consisting of soul and body; but rather that the Word having personally united to himself flesh animated by a rational soul, did in an ineffable and inconceivable manner become man, and was called the Son of Man, not merely as willing or being pleased to be so called, neither on account of taking to himself a person, but because the two natures being brought together in a true union, there is of both one Christ and one Son; for the difference of the natures is not taken away by the union, but rather the divinity and the humanity make perfect for us the one Lord Jesus Christ by their ineffable and inexpressible union. So then he who had an existence before all ages and was born of the Father, is said to have been born according to the flesh of a woman, not as though his divine nature received its beginning of existence in the holy Virgin, for it needed not any second generation after that of the Father (for it would be absurd and foolish to say that he who existed before all ages, coeternal with the Father, needed any second beginning of existence), but since, for us and for our salvation, he personally united to himself an human body, and came forth of a woman, he is in this way said to be born after the flesh; for he was not first born a common man of the holy Virgin, and then the Word came down and entered into him, but the union being made in the womb itself, he is said to endure a birth after the flesh, ascribing to himself the birth of his own flesh. On this account we say that he suffered and rose again; not as if God the Word suffered in his own nature stripes, or the piercing of the nails, or any other wounds, for the Divine nature is incapable of suffering, inasmuch as it is incorporeal, but since that which had become his own body suffered in this way, he is also said to suffer for us; for he who is in himself incapable of suffering was in a suffering body. In the same manner also we conceive respecting his dying; for the Word of God is by nature immortal and incorruptible, and life and life-giving; since, however, his own body did, as Paul says, by the grace of God taste death for every man, he himself is said to have suffered death for us, not as if he had any experience of death in his own nature (for it would be madness to say or think this), but because, as I have just said, his flesh tasted death. In like manner his flesh being raised again, it is spoken of as his resurrection, not as if he had fallen into corruption (God forbid), but because his own body was raised again. We, therefore, confess one Christ and Lord, not as worshipping a man with the Word (lest this expression “with the Word” should suggest to the mind the idea of division), but worshipping him as one and the same, forasmuch as the body of the Word, with which he sits with the Father, is not separated from the Word himself, not as if two sons were sitting with him, but one by the union with the flesh. If, however, we reject the personal union as impossible or unbecoming, we fall into the error of speaking of two sons, for it will be necessary to distinguish, and to say, that he who was properly man was honoured with the appellation of Son, and that he who is properly the Word of God, has by nature both the name and the reality of Sonship. We must not, therefore, divide the one Lord Jesus Christ into two Sons. Neither will it at all avail to a sound faith to hold, as some do, an union of persons; for the Scripture has not said that the Word united to himself the person of man, but that he was made flesh. This expression, however, “the Word was made flesh,” can mean nothing else but that he partook of flesh and blood like to us; he made our body his own, and came forth man from a woman, not casting off his existence as God, or his generation of God the Father, but even in taking to himself flesh remaining what he was. This the declaration of the correct faith proclaims everywhere. This was the sentiment of the holy Fathers; therefore they ventured to call the holy Virgin, the Mother of God, not as if the nature of the Word or his divinity had its beginning from the holy Virgin, but because of her was born that holy body with a rational soul, to which the Word being personally united is said to be born according to the flesh. These things, therefore, I now write unto you for the love of Christ, beseeching you as a brother, and testifying to you before Christ and the elect angels, that you would both think and teach these things with us, that the peace of the Churches may be preserved and the bond of concord and love continue unbroken amongst the Priests of God. Send greetings to the brothers who are with you. Those who are with me send greetings in Christ.
We like Ephesus. The trouble you have is in publishing it in English you do in fact kind of miss the point. The Greek term is theotokos which might well be translated in English as The God Bearer and in some ways I think that there is a significant group of people who have difficulty (no doubt in part because of our contemporary western understanding of motherhood) with the term Mother of God. When theotokos was rendered in Latin it was generally as Mater Dei which in the day people were happy with and 1700 years later to term still has widespread use both in Latin and in the obvious English Translation of the Latin Mother of God.

To be fair, I have no problem with the term though, apart from in the Angelus, I would normally use the term theotokos which I believe is theologically better, clearer and in touch with the origins, and indeed well supported by Holy Scripture (even if the word is not used in Scripture). The real issue is not what do you say about Mary, so much as what do you say about Jesus - and specifically in this context the Incarnation, and part of that is once you get Incarnation then you will want to say something about Mary, because Mary said yes to the the Angel and to God, and that yes has profound ramifications for us all.

Please, everybody, get the incarnation right, Jesus was not a test tube baby, he was born of a woman Mary, who was betrothed to a man Joseph. He who was from the very beginning had a new beginning as John so clearly states the word became flesh and tabernacled in our midst.
 
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Theophan

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God refers to the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. It is incorrect to generalize Mary as the mother of God when in actual fact she was only the mother of Jesus during His mission on earth, not before or after.

So, do you stop referring to your dead relatives as relatives in the proper sense of the word? If your dad passed away, is he no longer your dad and are you no longer his daughter?

Where do you get this idea that their relationship ceased and that she is no longer His mother?

It doesn't matter too much since you have already conceded the argument by saying that Mary was the mother of Jesus. Okay... so Mary was the Mother of God because Jesus is God. Do you deny that Jesus is God? Do you deny that when He became flesh He was also fully God and yet a babe? If not, then you cannot deny that Mary gave birth to Christ our God.
 
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Philip_B

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Lily of Valleys

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“Standing near the cross were Jesus’ mother, and his mother’s sister, Mary (the wife of Clopas), and Mary Magdalene.”
‭‭John‬ ‭19:25‬ ‭NLT‬‬

“Then Jesus’ mother and brothers came to see him, but they couldn’t get to him because of the crowd.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭8:19‬ ‭NLT‬‬

“The next day there was a wedding celebration in the village of Cana in Galilee. Jesus’ mother was there,”
‭‭John‬ ‭2:1‬ ‭NLT‬‬
We are in agreement that the scripture has been referring Mary as Jesus' mother, not mother of God.
 
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Lily of Valleys

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So, do you stop referring to your dead relatives as relatives in the proper sense of the word? If your dad passed away, is he no longer your dad and are you no longer his daughter?

Where do you get this idea that their relationship ceased and that she is no longer His mother?

It doesn't matter too much since you have already conceded the argument by saying that Mary was the mother of Jesus. Okay... so Mary was the Mother of God because Jesus is God. Do you deny that Jesus is God? Do you deny that when He became flesh He was also fully God and yet a babe? If not, then you cannot deny that Mary gave birth to Christ our God.
I don't know where you got the idea that I had ever objected to Mary being the mother of Jesus during His mission on earth. That's what the scripture refers her as - Jesus' mother, not mother of God.

Mary's role in God's salvation plan was to give birth to the human body of Jesus, and her role as Jesus' mother ended when Jesus died on the cross. In actual fact, Jesus handed Mary over to His disciple to be his mother before He died:

When Jesus then saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing nearby, He said to His mother, “Woman, behold, your son!” Then He said to the disciple, Behold, your mother!” From that hour the disciple took her into his own household. (John 19:26-27 NASB)​
 
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Theophan

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I don't know where you got the idea that I had ever objected to Mary being the mother of Jesus during His mission on earth. That's what the scripture refers her as - Jesus' mother, not mother of God.

Mary's role in God's salvation plan was to give birth to the human body of Jesus, and her role as Jesus' mother ended when Jesus died on the cross. In actual fact, Jesus handed Mary over to His disciple to be his mother before He died:

When Jesus then saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing nearby, He said to His mother, “Woman, behold, your son!” Then He said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!” From that hour the disciple took her into his own household. (John 19:26-27 NASB)​


Since you ignored what I said, I will do likewise until you address my point. I will repeat myself since perhaps you didn't read it.

Okay... so Mary was the Mother of God because Jesus is God. Do you deny that Jesus is God? Do you deny that when He became flesh He was also fully God and yet a babe? If not, then you cannot deny that Mary gave birth to Christ our God.
 
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Lily of Valleys

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I suspect that the term 'only' is hardly fitting for the words that come after.
What I meant is Mary was only the mother of Jesus, not the mother of God the Father or the mother of the Holy Spirit. And even as mother of Jesus, it was only from the time He was born and till He died on the cross.
 
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Theophan

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Moreover, you neglect everything else that has been said in this thread as if it were never said. We are not starting over. Either make the effort to read and understand, or do not respond with things that have already been refuted emphatically.1
 
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Lily of Valleys

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Since you ignored what I said, I will do likewise until you address my point. I will repeat myself since perhaps you didn't read it.

Okay... so Mary was the Mother of God because Jesus is God. Do you deny that Jesus is God? Do you deny that when He became flesh He was also fully God and yet a babe? If not, then you cannot deny that Mary gave birth to Christ our God.
It is true that your mother is the mother of Theophan, but we can't say that your mother is the mother of human even though you are a human, since it is a generalization.
 
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Theophan

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What I meant is Mary was only the mother of Jesus, not the mother of God the Father or the mother of the Holy Spirit. And even as mother of Jesus, it was only from the time He was born and till He died on the cross.

Again...who is Jesus but God Himself? What is your problem with that? I don't understand why you want to destroy the divinity of Christ by denying that He was God born in the flesh of the virgin Mary.

We do not say that Mary is the Creator of God, nor is she the Generator of God, nor the Origin of God, nor the beginning of God. None of that!

We say Mary gave birth to Jesus Christ, the Son of God, God Himself. She gave birth to the Word of God who became flesh. She gave birth to one of the persons of the Godhead who is no less God than any other persons of the Godhead. She gave birth to God. She was the mother of Christ God, the Son of God, the Word of God, and very God. Mary became the Mother of God just as the Son became flesh. We do not say that Jesus was flesh from the beginning, nor that Mary was His mother from the beginning. Mary conceived Christ, the Son, and bore Him and birthed Him and raised Him and loved Him as a Mother. The Lord subjected Himself to her as her son. She did not create God; she gave birth to God; she mothered God, that is, Jesus Christ our God.
 
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anna ~ grace

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What I meant is Mary was only the mother of Jesus, not the mother of God the Father or the mother of the Holy Spirit. And even as mother of Jesus, it was only from the time He was born and till He died on the cross.

I think it's clear that Mary could never be and is not the mother of God, the Father.

But she did conceive and give birth to God the Word and Son, the Second Person of the Trinity, by the Holy Spirit.

This does not make her the creator or originator of the Second Person of the Trinity, but does make her God's mother in an historical, incarnational, and social sense.

As I understand it, the title Mother of God does more to point to the deity of Christ than it does to imply or infer that Mary is in any way the originator of God. No way! But as Christ is God, not simply like God, similar to or near to God but truly God in His reality and nature, it does make sense to say that the woman who gave birth to Jesus of Nazareth is truly the Mother of God.
 
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