Sabbath and Law-Keepers - Gracious convo please!

[bekkilyn]

I can do that too!
===========================

1. Pick a commandment of God not quoted in the NT... so in real life that would be "do not take God's name in vain" --

2. Ask the question of the form: Where in the NEW Testament do we find the text that says "hey you gentiles I specifically mean for you to (not take God's name in vain )... yes this means you gentiles" -

Adding .. "I want to see a verse that clearly says something like that".

That game is easy to play and in the example above we see that we can both play that game --- But like most games -- does not really mean anything when it is over.

Thus -- no matter the game played with it -- it is still a sin to take God's name in vain.

I am not playing a game. I have been informed a number of times that this command for Christians to observe the Sabbath exists in the NT, and so I simply want to see the specific verse where it is clearly commanded.

 

[BobRyan]

Acts 18:4 was about Paul going to the Jews in their synagogue, where he knew he would find them gathered, to witness to them about the gospel.

In this careful-not-to-quote text... we have a few more 'inconvenient' Bible details.

4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks.

instead "preaching in the synagogue to just Jews and only later to gentiles" as many in the past have re-imagined the text for us. What we find actually IN the not-to-be-quoted text is that right off the bat this to BOTH Jews AND gentiles and that they are BOTH coming back not merely "Sabbath after Sabbath" but in fact "EVERY Sabbath" to hear that Gospel preaching.

Get it? "every week" ... and more than this - "every Sabbath".

What is the real "elephant in the living room" is that in this "every Sabbath" - every week - gospel preaching there is NOT ONE reference to "all you believing Jews and Gentiles -- please join us tomorrow on week-day-1 for our EVERY WEEK Worship service as Christians".

Not even one of those in all of the NT.. No ... not one.

 

[BobRyan]

I have been informed a number of times that this command for Christians to observe the Sabbath exists in the NT,

I think that is fair to say.


Unlike week-day-1 the New Testament says "the Sabbath was made for mankind" Mark 2:27
"from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23 in the New Earth for all eternity after the cross

Unlike week-day-1 the New Testament says Jesus is "Lord of the Sabbath" Mark 2:28
Unlike week-day-1 the NEW testament says "EVERY SABBATH" the met for Gospel preaching for BOTH Jews AND Gentiles Acts 18:4
Unlike Week-day-1 the NEW Testament says "Almost the ENTIRE CITY turned up the Next Sabbath" to hear the Gospel - Acts 13
Unlike week-day-1 the NEW Testament says "there REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" Hebrews 4... there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God -- remains as it was in the time of David in Psalms 95 according to Hebrews 4.

It is not just that Rev 14:7 quotes the Exodus 20:11 portion of the Sabbath commandment

This is called "not mentioning the Sabbath anywhere in the NT or showing Gospel preaching specific to the Sabbath" in some threads.

=======================

By contrast - you have no such list for "do not take God's name in vain" in the NT

 

[BobRyan]

Acts 13 - it is the gentiles not the Jews that ask to have the Gospel preached to them "next Sabbath"

For Acts 13, you're leaving out much of the story. When Paul had went to witness to the Jews in the synagogue, they made him promise to return the next week,

The text you are being careful not to quote says this --

39 and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses. 40 Beware therefore, lest what has been spoken in the prophets come upon you:
41 ‘Behold, you despisers,
Marvel and perish!
For I work a work in your days,
A work which you will by no means believe,
Though one were to declare it to you.’”
42 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath. 43 Now when the congregation had broken up, many of the Jews and devout proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.

44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God. 45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy; and contradicting and blaspheming


By not actually quoting the text you have mistakenly re-imagined it to say " the Jews in the synagogue, they made him promise to return "

But in real life the text said this "42 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath. ...44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God. "

It just does not "get" any easier than this!!

Getting harder and harder to step around that huge elephant in the living room - the one that is not supposed to notice that the gentiles are not saying "preach the Gospel to us TOMORROW on week-day-1 your Christian day of worship"

The author of Acts - never mentions instruction to gentiles to attend a weekly week-day-1 worship service and he always references the Sabbath of the Sabbath Commandment as unchanged from when God gave it in Genesis 2:1-3 and Exodus 20:8-11

 

[BobRyan]

Hebrews 4 isn't about observing the Sabbath. .

the text you are not quoting says that the Sabbath "remains for the people of God" and that this can be seen from the Psalms 95 statement of David -- which as we all know - did not delete the Sabbath Commandment in the time of David... rather it remains for the people of God.

 

[BobRyan]

Revelation 14:7 is not also not about observing a Sabbath day. It is emphasizing that God is the God of creation, which occurs in *many* verses in scripture, including in Exodus.

The text that you are glossing over - rather than quoting -- includes these Bible details.

Three angels give their final warning message to the world in Rev 14:6-12 and then comes the wrath of God in Rev 14:14-20

6 Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people— 7 saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.”

That phrase is very specific to the Sabbath commandment and is found nowhere else in scripture. The source is always the Sabbath Commandment.

"11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them"

The angel is indeed giving a "command" just when you had re-imagined it as not a command.

And the command speaks to 3 things.

1. Fear God and Give God glory -
2. The judgment of God - future to John's day -- will have come at the time of this message
3. Worship God in context of His role as our Creator
---the very language of the 4th commandment being quoted. (Unlike a verbatim quote of Exodus 20:7 "do not take God's name in vain" which we do not have in all of the NT)

 

[bekkilyn]

Acts 13 - it is the gentiles not the Jews that ask to have the Gospel preached to them "next Sabbath"

The majority of English translations do not specify "Gentiles" in Acts 13:42. It is typically translated as "they" or "the people" meaning the Jews and Gentile converts to Judaism. It is not in any case referring to Gentile *Christians*. Christians did not meet in Jewish synagogues.

 

[BobRyan]

The majority of English translations do not specify "Gentiles" in Acts 13:42.

"the people" NASB
"the nations" Youngs Literal Translation
"the gentiles" KJV
"the gentiles" NKJV
"the gentiles" Modern English Version
Textus Receptus "the gentiles"


42 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.


Vs 39-41 the Jews were getting their hat handed to them in that sermon... so not the warm fuzzy for them that they had hoped for... they left.

It is not in any case referring to Gentile *Christians*. Christians did not meet in Jewish synagogues.

Christians were in fact meeting in the Synagogues just as Paul walks right into it in Acts 13 and in Acts 21 it is very clear that Christian Jews were most certainly there - and if nonChristian Gentiles then how much more Christian Gentiles, along with Christian Jews.

And this is proven in Acts 15 where the entire Gentile controversy is solved in part by the fact that they are in the synagogues every Sabbath.

 

[bekkilyn]

"the people" NASB
"the nations" Youngs Literal Translation
"the gentiles" KJV
"the gentiles" NKJV
"the gentiles" Modern English Version
Textus Receptus "the gentiles"\

Acts 13:42 - Bible Gateway

Again, the majority of English translations use "they" or "the people" and not "Gentiles"

Christians were in fact meeting in the Synagogues just as Paul walks right into it in Acts 13 and in Acts 21 it is very clear that Christian Jews were most certainly there - and if nonChristian Gentiles then how much more Christian Gentiles, along with Christian Jews.

And this is proven in Acts 15 where the entire Gentile controversy is solved in part by the fact that they are in the synagogues every Sabbath.

These are Gentile converts to Judaism, not Christians. Gentile Christians met in each other's homes, not Jewish synagogues.

 

[BobRyan]

These are Gentile converts to Judaism, not Christians. Gentile Christians met in each other's homes, not Jewish synagogues.

We are not in disagreement that the group that Paul meets in Acts 13 are non-Christian Jews and non-Christian gentiles worshiping every Sabbath in the Synagogue together.


42 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath. 43 Now when the congregation had broken up, many of the Jews and devout proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.

44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God. 45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy; and contradicting and blaspheming,


The "elephant" you are missing is that there is no "please preach the Gospel to us tomorrow at your Christian weekly-worship-service" in Acts 13. No such request from believing gentiles or believing Jews - and the text SAYS that at the end of that sermon there ARE believers there that follow Paul.

In fact we always see believers among BOTH gentiles and Jews when Paul goes into the synagogues in Acts 13, and Acts 17 and Acts 18 - and not ONE "lets meet tomorrow at our weekly week-day-1 worship service" .

No instead of that we get gentiles asking for MORE GOSPEL preaching "next Sabbath"

 

[Doug Melven]

said by Christ to be "made for mankind".

We believers are not of this earth. John 15:19
If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
We are not like mankind, we are born from above. That is why Paul can say 1 Tim 1:8
Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man,

We are under a higher law. The law of the Spirit of life. We follow Him.

 

[Bob S]

It is very much a strawman to try to tell us there is no verse to "keep" Sunday in the New Testament. What is really true there is no verse or command in the New Testament to "keep" any day.

Keep means to do all that is commanded even to the last tiny detail. Jesus is the only living being that has accomplished this.

"If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:"

It is obvious that those who think they are obligated to "keep" the Sabbath fall short of Is58:13.

Jesus took away the obligation of keeping days when He fulfilled the Law at Calvary.

 

[listed]

In this careful-not-to-quote text... we have a few more 'inconvenient' Bible details.

4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks.

instead "preaching in the synagogue to just Jews and only later to gentiles" as many in the past have re-imagined the text for us. What we find actually IN the not-to-be-quoted text is that right off the bat this to BOTH Jews AND gentiles and that they are BOTH coming back not merely "Sabbath after Sabbath" but in fact "EVERY Sabbath" to hear that Gospel preaching.

Get it? "every week" ... and more than this - "every Sabbath".

What is the real "elephant in the living room" is that in this "every Sabbath" - every week - gospel preaching there is NOT ONE reference to "all you believing Jews and Gentiles -- please join us tomorrow on week-day-1 for our EVERY WEEK Worship service as Christians".

Not even one of those in all of the NT.. No ... not one.

What we have isn't Christians coming back Sabbath after Sabbath. Christians didn't have to be persuaded about Jesus. Get it as you say.

 

[listed]

I think that is fair to say.


Unlike week-day-1 the New Testament says "the Sabbath was made for mankind" Mark 2:27

If Jesus meant what you want us to believe, He contradicts Moses in Exodus 31:13, 17 and can't be the Savior.

Unlike week-day-1 the New Testament says Jesus is "Lord of the Sabbath" Mark 2:28

Yes and He's Lord of the rest of the week, too.

Unlike week-day-1 the NEW testament says "EVERY SABBATH" the met for Gospel preaching for BOTH Jews AND Gentiles Acts 18:4

This isn't what was preached in the synagogue by the Jewish leaders. Remember they chased Christian out of the synagogue as heretics. Paul's behavior as Saul is very notable.

Unlike Week-day-1 the NEW Testament says "Almost the ENTIRE CITY turned up the Next Sabbath" to hear the Gospel - Acts 13

Who turned out and why? It wasn't Christians.

Unlike week-day-1 the NEW Testament says "there REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" Hebrews 4... there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God -- remains as it was in the time of David in Psalms 95 according to Hebrews 4.

This isn't talking about the Sabbath. the word Sabbath doesn't appear in your quoted verse.

It is not just that Rev 14:7 quotes the Exodus 20:11 portion of the Sabbath commandment

Revelation 14:7 does no such thing.

By contrast - you have no such list for "do not take God's name in vain" in the NT

This is nothing more than irrelevant filler.

 

[listed]

Acts 13 - it is the gentiles not the Jews that ask to have the Gospel preached to them "next Sabbath"

That's exactly the point. IT's gentiles and not Christians asking for the Gospel.



The text you are being careful not to quote says this --

39 and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses. 40 Beware therefore, lest what has been spoken in the prophets come upon you:
41 ‘Behold, you despisers,
Marvel and perish!
For I work a work in your days,
A work which you will by no means believe,
Though one were to declare it to you.’”
42 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath. 43 Now when the congregation had broken up, many of the Jews and devout proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.

44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God. 45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy; and contradicting and blaspheming[/quote]What you're trying to imply is almost the whole city are Christians. That is incorrect.

 

[listed]

the text you are not quoting says that the Sabbath "remains for the people of God" and that this can be seen from the Psalms 95 statement of David -- which as we all know - did not delete the Sabbath Commandment in the time of David... rather it remains for the people of God.

It doesn't say anything about the Sabbath. It does talk about rest.

 

[listed]

The text that you are glossing over - rather than quoting -- includes these Bible details.

Three angels give their final warning message to the world in Rev 14:6-12 and then comes the wrath of God in Rev 14:14-20

6 Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people— 7 saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.”

That phrase is very specific to the Sabbath commandment and is found nowhere else in scripture. The source is always the Sabbath Commandment.

In your verse worship has nothing to do with the Sabbath. It does identify Who we're to worship.

"11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them"

So there are similar phrases. That proves nothing.

The angel is indeed giving a "command" just when you had re-imagined it as not a command.

The angel says nothing about the sabbath. The angel does say something about worship.

 

[listed]

"the people" NASB
"the nations" Youngs Literal Translation
"the gentiles" KJV
"the gentiles" NKJV
"the gentiles" Modern English Version
Textus Receptus "the gentiles"

Thanks for verifying what was said.

42 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.

Who begged?

Vs 39-41 the Jews were getting their hat handed to them in that sermon... so not the warm fuzzy for them that they had hoped for... they left.

They left because the meeting was over. The Jews were militant when it came to what they regarded heresy.

Christians were in fact meeting in the Synagogues just as Paul walks right into it in Acts 13 and in Acts 21 it is very clear that Christian Jews were most certainly there - and if nonChristian Gentiles then how much more Christian Gentiles, along with Christian Jews.

In those synagogues the Gospel wasn't regular fair.

And this is proven in Acts 15 where the entire Gentile controversy is solved in part by the fact that they are in the synagogues every Sabbath.

That isn't the statement about every week's attendance. The statement about the synagogue is about the past.

 

[listed]

We are not in disagreement that the group that Paul meets in Acts 13 are non-Christian Jews and non-Christian gentiles worshiping every Sabbath in the Synagogue together.

Then you have no argument.

 

[BobRyan]

I have been informed a number of times that this command for Christians to observe the Sabbath exists in the NT,

I think that is fair to say.


Unlike week-day-1 the New Testament says "the Sabbath was made for mankind" Mark 2:27
Unlike week-day-1 the New Testament says Jesus is "Lord of the Sabbath" Mark 2:28
Unlike week-day-1 the NEW testament says "EVERY SABBATH" the met for Gospel preaching for BOTH Jews AND Gentiles Acts 18:4
Unlike Week-day-1 the NEW Testament says "Almost the ENTIRE CITY turned up the Next Sabbath" to hear the Gospel - Acts 13
Unlike week-day-1 the NEW Testament says "there REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" Hebrews 4... there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God -- remains as it was in the time of David in Psalms 95 according to Hebrews 4.

It is not just that Rev 14:7 quotes the Exodus 20:11 portion of the Sabbath commandment

This is called "not mentioning the Sabbath anywhere in the NT or showing Gospel preaching specific to the Sabbath" in some threads.

=======================

By contrast - you have no such list for "do not take God's name in vain" in the NT

It is very much a strawman to try to tell us there is no verse to "keep" Sunday in the New Testament.

Your opinion "noted". Meanwhile I have given very explicit examples of what we do find for God's Sabbath commandment and how it is that we do not have that for week-day-1

What is really true there is no verse or command in the New Testament to "keep" any day.

Nor a New Testament quote of the commandment "do not take God's name in vain"