proving evolution as just a "theory"

[PsychoSarah]

I already agreed with you regarding the "evolution" of creatures that might change colors or wing structure.

I did this math based on dogs, since I don't know the mutation rate of Triops specifically and need a rate of change well documented to compare to. Based on dog breeds, a new breed of dog can be produced by only members of a single existing breed within about 27 generations. My experiment spans about 173 generations. Based on the two crustaceans for which I can find mutation rate, Triops realistically could have a mutation rate at about 40% that of dogs. This would make the 173 generations equivalent to about 70 dog generations. So, should get a new "breed" of Triops, unless their mutation rate is exceptionally slow.

So your experiment doesn't mean anything to me. And you already admitted that your experiment won't produce something that is completely different from what it was to begin with. So it's irrelevant.

-_- knowing biology, evolution hasn't produced something "completely" different ever. Bacteria aren't "completely" different from humans, for example. Some traits always seem to be retained, like the fact that every living thing on this planet has DNA as their genetic material.

However, different numbers of segments in the legs and other such physiological changes are possible within my experiment. It's just that on the genetic scale, the experimental population would still be recognizable as a Triops. It's highly unlikely for a genus transition to occur within just 10 years, even if it is entirely possible for them to lose the trait for which that genus is named (the three eyes).

 

[tas8831]

Who cares? What do you care if someone quotes something in here without posting the source. We are not writing a thesis. Please show a verbatim cut and paste where someone did that. And please show how that is so terrible.

Here is on e example:

How do you decide if something is factual?"[/URL]

and it is so terrible due to the inherent dishonesty.

 

[tas8831]

Who cares? What do you care if someone quotes something in here without posting the source. We are not writing a thesis. Please show a verbatim cut and paste where someone did that. And please show how that is so terrible.

Here is another:

What happened to neanderthal man?

Followed doubling down and phony indignation.

The 3rd guy I cannot find - it was many weeks ago. Has a Crown in his avatar, but I will keep looking.

 

[Jimmy D]

Seems Justatruthseeker has abandoned the thread, shame really, I was looking forward to his views on the world population phylogentetic trees.

 

[tas8831]

Ah so you don't have any evidence.

Typical disingenuous YEC.

I didn't think so. It's based upon faith just like mine is.

Not even close.

I will agree with you when you can provide a list as extensive regarding research into creation as I just provided for abiogenesis.

My only faith is that since science has a proven track record of producing valid results, it will someday give us the answers we seek.

Your faith is that some numerologists in the middle east 2000+ years ago had all the answers.

Because ID is obvious.

Are you a biologist?

Because as a biologist, I have to laugh when people say things like that. If life is designed, the designer is a half-wit with a sick sense of humor.

But the intelligence behind it is not verifiable

And there is not even a hint of evidence for it - quite contrary to the list of publications regarding abiogenesis.


But you keep putting your deity into that ever-shrinking box of magic that it performed long ago.

 

[tas8831]

That's a very good question. Hmmm... I also wonder what process He used to create an entire universe just with His spoken word?

And you BELIEVE that is the truth and a fact, don't you?

Yet you reject one species giving rise to another.


I'm sure that there is a word for that mental state, but I don't know what it is.

But alas we must take miracles at face value and only test what is feasibly testable.

So we must just 'believe' in crazy impossibilities as presented by desert wandering numerologists 2000+ years ago because we cannot test it.

Can we test whether or not Zeus really lived on Mt. Olympus?

I guess we must take those tales at face value, too, huh?

Why or why not?

 

[tas8831]

At some point we even had an actual evolutionary biologist try to explain this stuff to you but you seem impervious to being corrected by people who know more than you.

That describes 99% of the creationists you will ever encounter.

 

[tas8831]

Don’t know, what random processes changed those silicates into lipids, amino acids, etc., and how do you know?

Awesome burden shifting, sport!

I don't know, but then, I am not the one positing that this is actually what happened.

so, in addition to burden shifting, you also engaged in a strawman fallacy!

Awesome creationist action!

But in regard to how we get those lipids, etc., here is a nice list that I have presented on here at least 3 times so far - perhaps even once to you:

2017
Moore EK, Hao J, Sverjensky DA, Jelen BI, Meyer M, Hazen RM and Falkowski PG Geological and chemical factors that impacted the biological utilization of cobalt in the Archean Eon. (in review)
Hao J, Sverjensky DA and Hazen RM Limits on the partial pressure of H2 in the Archean atmosphere during weathering of basaltic minerals. Geochemica et Cosmochimica Acta (in review)
Estrada C, Sverjensky DA and Hazen RM Selective adsorption of calcium-aspartate ligands onto [Mg(OH)2]-brucite: Implications for calcium in prebiotic chemistry. Astrobiology (in review)
Estrada C, Sverjensky DA and Hazen RM Enhanced and inhibited adsorption of D-ribose with Ca2+ and Mg2+ onto brucite [Mg(OH)2]. Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta (in review)
Hazen RM Chance, necessity, and the origins of life. Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society A (in review)
54. Estrada CE, Mamajanov I, Hao J, Sverjensky DA, Cody GD and Hazen RM (2017) Aspartate transformation at 200 °C with brucite [Mg(OH)2], NH3, and H2: Implications for prebiotic molecules in hydrothermal systems. Chemical Geology 457:162-172
53. Gherase D, Hazen RM, Krishnamurthy R and Blackmond DG (2017) Mineral-Induced Enantioenrichment of Tartaric Acid. Synlett 28(1):89-92
Wenge J, Pacella MS, Athanasiadou D, Nelea V, Vali H, Hazen RM, Gray JJ, McKee MD (2017) Chiral acidic amino acids induce chiral hierarchical structure in calcium carbonate. Nature Communications 8:15066

2016
Ertem G, Ertem MC, McKay CP and Hazen RM (2016) Shielding biomolecules from effects of radiation by Mars analogue minerals and soils. Astrobiology 6(3):280-285
Grew ES, Krivovichev SV, Hazen RM and Hystad G (2016) Evolution of structural complexity in boron minerals. Canadian Mineralogist 54(1):125-143

2015
Liu X-M, Kah LC, Knoll AH, Cui H, Kaufman AJ, Shahar A and Hazen RM (2015) Tracing Earth’s O2 evolution using Zn/Fe ratios in marine carbonates. Geochemical Perspective Letters 2(1):24-34
Estrada C, Sverjensky DA, Pelletier M, Razafitianamharavo A, Hazen RM (2015) Interaction between L-aspartate and the brucite [Mg(OH)2]-water interface. Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta 155:172-186 [pdf]
Grosch EG, Hazen RM (2015) Microbes, mineral evolution, and the rise of micro-continents: Origin and co-evolution of life with early Earth. Astrobiology 15(10):922-939
Nance JR, Armstrong JT, Cody GD, Fogel ML, Hazen RM (2015) Preserved shell-binding protein and associated pigment in the Middle Miocene (8 to 18 Ma) gastropod Ecphora. Geochemical Perspectives Letters 1:1-8
Grew ES, Dymek RF, De Hoog JCM, Harley SL, Boak JM, Hazen RM and Yates MG (2015) Boron isotopes in tourmaline from the ca. 3.7–3.8 Ga Isua supracrustal belt, Greenland: Sources for boron in Eoarchean continental crust and seawater. Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta 163:156-177

2014
Hazen RM (2014) Enantioselective adsorption on rock-forming minerals: A thought experiment. Surface Science 629:11-14
Lee N, Foustoukos DI, Sverjensky DA, Cody GD, Hazen RM (2014) The effects of temperature, ph and redox state on the stability of glutamic acid in hydrothermal fluids. Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta 135:66-86
Lee N, Sverjensky DA, Hazen RM (2014) Cooperative and competitive adsorption of amino acids with Ca2+ on rutile (α-TiO2). Environmental Science and Technology 48:9358-9365
Lee N, Foustoukos DI, Sverjensky DA, Cody GD, Hazen RM (2014) Hydrogen enhances the stability of amino acids in hydrothermal environments. Chemical Geology 386:184-189

2013
Livi KJT, Schaffer B, Azzolini D, Seabourne CR, Hardcastle TP, Scott AJ, Hazen RM, Erlebacher JD, Brydson R, Sverjensky DA (2013) Atomic scale roughness of rutile and implications for molecular surface adsorption. Langmuir 29:6876-6883
Noffke N, Christian D, Wacey D, Hazen RM (2013) Microbially induced sedimentary structures recording an ancient ecosystem in the ca. 3.48 billion-year-old Dresser Formation, Pilbara, Western Australia. Astrobiology Journal 13(12):1103-1124
Hazen RM (2013) Paleomineralogy of the Hadean Eon: A preliminary species list. American Journal of Science 313(9):807-843

2012
Hazen RM (2012) Geochemical origins of life. Fundamentals of Geobiology, eds Knoll AH, Canfield DE, Konhauser KO (Wiley-Blackwell, Oxford) pp 315-332
Hazen RM (2012) An accident waiting to happen (That’s Life). Eureka, The Times 33:14-19
Cleaves II HJ, Scott AM, Hill FC, Leszczynski J, Sahai N, Hazen RM (2012) Mineral-organic interfacial processes: potential roles in the origins of life. Chemical Society Reviews 41:5502-5525
Lee N, Hummer DR, Sverjensky DS, Rajh T, Hazen RM, Steele A, Cody GD (2012) Speciation of L-DOPA on nanorutile as a function of pH and surface coverage using surface-enhance Raman spectroscopy (SERS). Langmuir 28:17322-17330 [pdf]

2011
Bahri S, Jonsson CM, Jonsson CL, Azzolini D, Sverjensky DA, Hazen RM (2011) Adsorption and surface complexation study of L-DOPA on rutile (TiO2) in NaCl solutions. Environmental Science and Technology 45:3959-3966
Grew ES, Bada JL, Hazen RM (2011) Borate minerals and the origin of the RNA world. Origins of Life and Evolution of the Biosphere 41:307-316
Parikh SJ, Kubicki JD, Jonsson CM, Jonsson CL, Hazen RM, Sverjensky DA, Sparks DL (2011) Evaluating glutamate and aspartate binding mechanisms to rutile (a-TiO2) via ATR-FTIR spectroscopy and quantum chemical calculations. Langmuir 27:1778-1787 [pdf]
Cleaves II HJ, Crapster-Pregont E, Jonsson CM, Jonsson CL, Sverjensky DA, Hazen RM (2011) The adsorption of short single-stranded DNA oligomers to mineral surfaces. Chemosphere 8:1560–1567 [pdf]
Livi KJT, Schaffer B, Azzolini D, Seabourne CR, Sader K, Shannon M, Sverjensky D, Hazen RM, Brydson R (2011) Imaging the surface of Rutile by STEM and its implication for organic molecule bonding. Proceedings of the Microscopy Conference 2011 (MC2011), August 28-September 02, Kiel/Germany, p M6_P621

2010
Cleaves II HJ, Jonsson CM, Jonsson CL, Sverjensky DA, Hazen RM (2010) Adsorption of nucleic acid components on rutile (TiO2) surfaces. Astrobiology 10:311-323 [pdf]
Hazen RM, Sverjensky DA (2010) Mineral Surfaces, Geochemical Complexities and the Origins of Life. Origins of Cellular Life, eds Deamer DW, Szostak JW, Cold Springs Harbor Perspectives in Biology [pdf]
Jonsson CM, Jonsson CL, Sverjensky DA, Cleaves II HJ, Hazen RM (2010) Adsorption of L-asparate to rutile (a-TiO2): Experimental and theoretical surface complexation studies. Geochemica et Cosmochemica Acta 74:2356–2367 [pdf]
Hazen RM (2010) How old is the Earth, and how do we know? Evolution: Education and Outreach 3:198-205 [pdf]
Marshall-Bowman K, Ohara S, Sverjensky DA, Hazen RM and Cleaves HJ (2010) Catalytic peptide hydrolysis by mineral surface: Implications for prebiotic chemistry Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta 74:20:5852-5861

2009
Hazen RM (2009) The emergence of patterning in life’s origin and evolution. International Journal of Developmental Biology 53:683-692 [pdf]
Hazen RM (2009) Emergence and the experimental pursuit of the origin of life. AAAS volume, ed Bertka C (Cambridge University Press, New York) pp 21-46
Hazen RM (2009) The chemical evolution of life: An Introduction. Chemical Evolution II: From Origins of Life to Modern Society, eds Zaikowski L, Friedrich JM. American Chemical Society Symposium Series 1025:3-13 [pdf]
Jonsson CM, Jonsson CL, Sverjensky DA, Cleaves HJ, Hazen RM (2009) Attachment of L-Glutamate to Rutile (a-TiO2): A potentiometric, adsorption, and surface complexation study. Langmuir 25:12127-12135 [pdf]

2008
Ertem G, Snellinger-O'Brien AM, Ertem MC, Rogoff DA, Dworkin JP, Johnston MV, Hazen RM (2008) Abiotic formation of RNA-like oligomers by montmorillonite catalysis: part II. International Journal of Astrobiology 7(1):1-7 [pdf]
Castro-Puyana M, Salgado A, Hazen RM, Crego AL, Marina ML (2008) Investiation of the enantioselective adsorption of 3-carboxy adipic acid on minerals by capillary electrophoresis. Electrophoresis 29:1548-1555 [pdf]
Brandes JA, Hazen RM, Yoder Jr HS (2008) Inorganic nitrogen reduction and stability under simulated hydrothermal conditions. Astrobiology 8:1113-1126 [pdf]
Sverjensky DA, Jonsson CM, Jonsson CL, Cleaves HJ, Hazen RM (2008) Glutamate surface speciation on amorphous titanium dioxide and hydrous ferric oxide. Environmental Science & Technology 40:6034-6039
Noffke N, Beukes N, Bower D, Hazen RM, Swift DJP (2008) An actualistic perspective into Archean worlds - (cyano-)bacterially induced sedimentary structures in the siliciclastic Nhlazatse Section, 2.9 Ga Pongola Supergroup, South Africa. Geobiology 6:5-20 [pdf]
Hazen RM, Papineau D, Bleeker W, Downs RT, Ferry J, McCoy T, Sverjensky D, Yang H (2008) Mineral evolution. American Mineralogist 93:1693-1720 [pdf]

2007
Hazen RM, Griffin PL, Carothers JM, Szostak JW (2007) Functional information and the emergence of biocomplexity. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 104:8574-8581 [pdf]
Hazen RM (2007) The emergence of chemical complexity: An Introduction. Chemical Evolution I: Chemical Change across Space and Time, eds Zaikowski L, Friedrich JM. American Chemical Society Symposium pp 2-14 [pdf]
Ertem G, Hazen RM, Dworkin JP (2007) Sequence analysis of trimer isomers formed by montmorillonite catalysis in the reaction of binary monomer mixtures. Astrobiology 7(5):715-724 [pdf]
Bada J, Fegley Jr B, Miller SL, Lazcano A, Cleaves HJ, Hazen RM, Chalmers J, Wachtershauser G, Huber C (2007) Debating evidence for the origin of life on Earth. Science 315(5814):937-938 [pdf]
Hazen RM (2007) Emergence and the origin of life: Presentation, questions and responses. Workshop Report: Philosophical, Ethical, and Theological Implications of Astrobiology, eds Bertka C, Roth N, Shindell M (American Association for the Advancement of Science, Washington) pp 30-40
Hazen RM, Deamer D (2007) Hydrothermal reactions of pyruvic acid: synthesis, selection, and self-assembly of amphiphilic molecules. Origins of Life and Evolution of the Biosphere 37:143-152 [pdf]
Boyce CK, Hotton CL, Fogel ML, Cody GD, Hazen RM, Knoll AH (2007) Devonian landscape heterogeneity recorded by a giant fungus. Geology 35:399-402 [pdf]

2006
Hazen RM (2006) Mineral surfaces and the prebiotic selection and organization of biomolecules (Presidential Address to the Mineralogical Society of America). American Mineralogist 91:1715-1729 [pdf]
Noffke N, Eriksson KA, Hazen RM, Simpson EL (2006) A new window into Early Archean life: Microbial mats in Earth's oldest siliciclastic tidal deposits (3.2 Ga Moodies Group, South Africa). Geology 34:253-256 [pdf]
Noffke N, Beukes N, Hazen RM, Gutzmer J (2006) Spatial and temporal distribution of microbially induced sedimentary structures: A case study from siliciclastic storm deposits of the 2.9 Ga Witwatersrand Supergroup, South Africa. Precambrian Research 146:35-44 [pdf]
Hazen RM, Steele A, Maule J, Martin R, Vicenzi E (2006) Applications of microarray technology to the study of mineral-molecule interactions. Astrobiology 6(1):223
Hazen RM, Snellinger AM, Dworkin JP, Scott JH, Cody GD, Fogel ML, Johnston MV, Ertem G (2006) MALDI-MS analysis of hetero-trimer fractions formed by montmorillonite catalysis in the reaction of binary monomer mixtures. Astrobiology 6(1):250-251
Asthagiri A, Hazen RM (2006) An ab initio study of adsorption of alanine on the chiral calcite (2131) surface. Molecular Simulation 33:343-351 [pdf]
Hazen RM, Deamer D (2006) Hydrothermal reactions of pyruvic acid: synthesis, selection, and self-assembly of amphiphilic molecules. Origins of Life and Evolution of the Biosphere 37:143-152 [pdf]

2005
Hazen RM (2005) Genesis: The Scientific Quest for Life's Origin. (Joseph Henry Press, Washington) 339 p
Hazen RM (2005) Genesis: Rocks, minerals and the geochemical origin of life. Elements 1(3):135-137 [pdf]

2004
Hazen RM (2004) Chiral crystal faces of common rock-forming minerals. Progress in Biological Chirality, eds Palyi G, Zucchi C, Cagglioti L (Elsevier, New York) pp 137-151 [pdf]
Churchill H, Teng H, Hazen RM (2004) Correlation of pH-dependent surface interaction forces to amino acid adsorption: Implications for the origin of life. American Mineralogist 89:1048-1055 [pdf]
Cody GD, Boctor NZ, Brandes JA, Filley TR, Hazen RM, Yoder Jr HS (2004) Assaying the catalytic potential of transition metal sulfides for prebiotic carbon fixation. Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta 68:2185-2196 [pdf]
Downs RT, Hazen RM (2004) Chiral indices of crystalline surfaces as a measure of enantioselective potential. Journal of Molecular Catalysis 216:273-285 [pdf]

2003
Noffke N, Nhleko N, Hazen RM (2003) Earth's earliest microbial mats in a siliciclastic marine environment (2.9 Ga Mozaan Group, South Africa). Geology 31:673-677 [pdf]
Hazen RM (2003) Factors that influence the emergence of complexity in prebiotic geochemical systems. Astrobiology 2(4):599
Hazen RM, Sholl DS (2003) Origins of biomolecular homochirality: selective molecular adsorption on crystalline surfaces. Astrobiology 2(4):598-599
Hazen RM, Steele A, Cody GD, Fogel ML, Huntress Jr WT (2003) Biosignatures and abiosignatures. Astrobiology 2(4):512-513
Boyce CK, Knoll AH, Cody GD, Fogel ML, Hazen RM (2003) Chemical evidence for cell wall lignification and the evolution of tracheids in Early Devonian plants. International Journal of Plant Science 164:691-702 [pdf]
Hazen RM, Sholl DS (2003) Chiral selection on inorganic crystalline surfaces. Nature Materials 2:367-374 [pdf]

2002
Sharma A, Scott JH, Cody GD, Fogel ML, Hazen RM, Hemley RJ and Huntress WT (2002) Microbial activity at gigapascal pressures. Science 295:1514-1516 [pdf]
Hazen RM, Boctor N, Brandes JA, Cody GD, Hemley RJ, Sharma A and Yoder Jr HS(2002) High pressure and the origin of life. Journal of Physics: Condensed Matter 14:1-6 [pdf]
Hazen RM (2002) Emergence and the origin of life. Fundamentals of life, eds Palyi G, Zucchi C, Caglioti L (Elsevier, New York) pp 41-50

2001
Cody GD, Hazen RM, Brandes JA, Morowitz HJ, Yoder Jr HS (2001) Geochemical roots of autotrophic carbon fixation: Hydrothermal experiments in the system citric acid, H2O-(±FeS)-(±NiS). Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta 65:3557-3576 [pdf]
Hazen RM (2001) Life's rocky start. Scientific American 284(4):76-85 [pdf]
Hazen RM, Filley TR, Goodfriend GA (2001) Selective adsorption of L- and D-amino acids on calcite: implications for biochemical homochirality. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 98:5487-5490
Boyce CK, Hazen RM, Knoll AH (2001) Nondestructive, in situ, cellular-scale mapping of elemental abundances including organic carbon in permineralized fossils. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 98:5970-5974 [pdf]
Hazen RM, Roedder E (2001) How old are bacteria from the Permian age? Nature 411(6834):155 [pdf]

2000
Cody GD, Boctor NZ, Filley TR, Hazen RM, Scott JH, Yoder Jr HS (2000) Primordial carbonylated iron-sulfur compounds and the synthesis of pyruvate. Science 289:1337-1340 [pdf]
Brandes JA, Hazen RM, Yoder Jr HS, Cody GD (2000) Early pre- and post-biotic synthesis of alanine: an alternative to the Strecker synthesis. Perspectives in Amino Acid and Protein Geochemistry, eds Goodfriend GA, Collins MJ, Fogel ML, Macko SA, Wehmiller JF (Oxford University Press, New York) pp 41-59 [pdf]

1999
Hazen RM (1999) A new perspective on the origin of life. The NOVA Reader: Science at the Turn of the Millennium, ed Hackman S (TV Books, New York) pp 48-54
Hazen RM (1999) Book review of "Cradle of Life: The Discovery of Earth's Earliest Fossils" by Schopf JW. Physics Today 52(10):75-76

1998
Brandes JA, Boctor NZ, Cody GD, Cooper BA, Hazen RM, Yoder Jr HS (1998) Abiotic nitrogen reduction on the early Earth. Nature 395:365-367 [pdf] Also, Chris Chyba's commentary on this article: [pdf]
​

And that is just one guy and his collaborators.

Have at it, champ!

Please post the list of creation science publications looking into how we get lipids and proteins and such from the dust of the ground.

 

[tas8831]

Then we will await your detailed explanation of how life came about from non-life.

Then we will await YOUR detailed explanation of how life came about from non-life.

 

[tas8831]

Well that's your opinion. I don't see it as dishonest at all on a forum like this.

Then you have a different standard of dishonesty from nearly everyone else.

And i suggest you do a search for "plagiarism" on this site- you will quickly see that in fact MANY of your brethren see plagiarism as a bad thing.

So go ahead and plagiarize, creationists.

We will all just see the sorts of people you are when you do so.

 

[tas8831]

Can I ask for a clarification here please? Are we talking about short extracts from other material, quoted verbatim, or are we talking about a summary of facts, observations, ideas, whatever collected/deduced/asserted by someone else, but interpreted by the poster?

If you are asking me, I mean copy-pasting the words of others either in part or in whole, without attribution or indication that the material is someone else's. This is especially annoying (even offensive, in a way) when used AS an argument, as opposed to being presented as support for an original statement.

In fact, one of the reasons I came here was that I had been reading about the documented - and extensive - plagiarism employed by one 'Towerwatchman' at another forum, and it had been shown that he did the same thing on this forum, not only in the Evolution forum, but also on a Christians-only forum, for which he got a lot of push-back. I came to check it out, and signed up.

 

[xianghua]

If we actually had a self replicating car then, given the appropriate environmental challenges and suitable amendments/mutations in the self-replicating process, over a period of time, it would be very likely it would change into a submarine.

its only a belief rather then science. one problem is that there are no small steps from a self replicating car into a submarine.

 

[Jimmy D]

its only a belief rather then science. one problem is that there are no small steps from a self replicating car into a submarine.

Case closed. Now please, please desist.

 

[pitabread]

plelase read my comment again. i actually did talked about self replicating objects. so this analogy fit well with living creatures.

No it doesn't. You keep repeating the same nonsensical arguments based on false equivalence and/or equivocation, not to mention continually invoking things that don't even exist in the first place.

Discussions with you go nowhere. I'm putting you back on my ignore list.

 

[pitabread]

What interesting is that humanity somehow existed and thrived for a very long time despite our lack of understanding how the world and life was created.

Unless you're planning to make the argument that there is no point to the quest for knowledge or scientific advancement, then this comment has no point. I mean, we also existed for a very long time pooping in the woods and banging rocks to together to make fire. So what?

And intelligent common design is just as applicable to our understanding. Accepting that God created everything with a common design just says all life has commonalities. Those commonalities help us with research and medical research. We don't need to believe in evolution from a common ancestor to have that.

There is currently no cohesive framework or scientific model for intelligence design, consequently there are no derived scientific applications thereof.

You can keep going on about "commonalities" or "common design", but you have no scientific framework to back that up. It's just babble.

Mankind was growing it's own food and surviving long before the science of biology decided we all came from a common ancestor. That's just nonsense.

Again, unless you're arguing that we shouldn't keep applying newly gained knowledge to try to continually improve the way we do things, then I'm not sure of your point.

God did it is an absolute explanation.

No it's not, because it doesn't explain anything. (Do you know what explaining thing entails?)

What "God did it" is is just a plug. It's a stop-gap for areas where we lack more coherent explanations. It was what people invoked in days past when they didn't know how weather or natural disasters worked. Likewise, it's currently being plugged into a gap of human knowledge around the origin of life.

At the end of the day, "God did it" doesn't actually provide with any relevant knowledge about how things were created. And certainly nothing we can apply in a scientific or functional sense.

 

[xianghua]

Case closed. Now please, please desist.

its actually support my argument, since you cant change a regular car stepwise into this diving car.

 

[BradB]

I doubt they were discussing it before Darwin’s theory was published.

Did you bother to read the article I posted? It seems that a lot of your posts focus on biology of the distant past rather than addressing current evidence, why is that?

Well here's an article showing that they had been discussing it prior. http://www.equinestudies.org/evolution_horse_2008/elsevier_horse_evolution_2008_pdf1.pdf (see 5th paragraph down)

I've read similar many times. Proposed horse chains presented are not examples of a finely graduated chain between two major forms.

 

[bhsmte]

Unless you're planning to make the argument that there is no point to the quest for knowledge or scientific advancement, then this comment has no point. I mean, we also existed for a very long time pooping in the woods and banging rocks to together to make fire. So what?



There is currently no cohesive framework or scientific model for intelligence design, consequently there are no derived scientific applications thereof.

You can keep going on about "commonalities" or "common design", but you have no scientific framework to back that up. It's just babble.



Again, unless you're arguing that we shouldn't keep applying newly gained knowledge to try to continually improve the way we do things, then I'm not sure of your point.



No it's not, because it doesn't explain anything. (Do you know what explaining thing entails?)

What "God did it" is is just a plug. It's a stop-gap for areas where we lack more coherent explanations. It was what people invoked in days past when they didn't know how weather or natural disasters worked. Likewise, it's currently being plugged into a gap of human knowledge around the origin of life.

At the end of the day, "God did it" doesn't actually provide with any relevant knowledge about how things were created. And certainly nothing we can apply in a scientific or functional sense.

For some, well evidenced reality and the knowledge that comes from the same is scary, real scary and must be denied at all costs.

 

[PsychoSarah]

its actually support my argument, since you cant change a regular car stepwise into this diving car.

I bet you my life savings that with each step that made that car able to work under water that none of them interrupted the car's ability to drive on land. -_- and no "half steps", like the engine being removed to be waterproofed. Obviously, cells don't have to spit out their mitochondria for them to change via mutation.

 

[Ophiolite]

Well here's an article showing that they had been discussing it prior. http://www.equinestudies.org/evolution_horse_2008/elsevier_horse_evolution_2008_pdf1.pdf (see 5th paragraph down)

I've read similar many times. Proposed horse chains presented are not examples of a finely graduated chain between two major forms.

Neither the contents of paragraph 5, nor any of the text in the first six pages relate to the discussion of horse evolution prior to publication of On the Origin of Species. i.e. your link does not support your assertion. I think you are misreading paragraph 5, though I am at a loss to see how.