Mueller Files First Charges

[Allandavid]

Actually the special counsel was commissioned by the Justice dept to investigate Russian collusion in the 2016 election cycle.

Of the 12 charges against Manafort how many dealt with Russian collusion in the 2016 election? Apparently none.

Is Manafort a tax evading (illegal) money laundering (illegal) international lobbyist (not illegal) influence peddler (perhaps not illegal)? Probably he is and we will find out as his trial progresses (he and his minion pleaded not guilty).

Yet all of the charges deal with his prior employment before coming to the Trump campaign. So those who say "not related to Trump" are correct. There's more connection to John Podesta and his brother with regards to the indictment. Podesta group had dealings with Manafort when he was influence peddling and laundering money (allegedly) with Russia, the Ukraine et. al.

Now this is the question I want liberals to answer.

How dearly do liberals hold to the 4th Amendment?

The Fourth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution provides that "[t]he right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
Fourth Amendment

This is what happened: special counsel given scope to investigate Trump campaign collusion with Russia with regards to 2016 election.

Special counsel raids the home of Manafort via forced entry, his wife in PJs as FBI picks the front door lock. Home raided of perhaps a corrupt man with no prior convictions and the evidence obtained has nothing to do with Manafort's tenure under Trump campaign. He now faces charges the Special counsel did not set out to investigate.

FBI raided Paul Manafort home as part of Russia probe - CNNPolitics


Liberals are you comfortable with an unelected arm of the Justice dept appointed by one unelected or Senate confirmed individual with such powers to violate private citizen's 4th Amendment rights?

Oh dear....a wailing and a gnashing of teeth...!

Mueller was also “commissioned” to investigate any other crimes that he may find as a result of his primary investigation. I realise that you’d really like this to go away, but you have to be truthful in your resistance....

 

[mark46]

You might consider reading the charge to Mueller. His scope is much more than investigating collusion.

Actually the special counsel was commissioned by the Justice dept to investigate Russian collusion in the 2016 election cycle.

 

[mark46]

Aren't we in a truth-free zone and in a world of alternative facts? Just listen to WH comments from yesterday. No one in the campaign knew the man who pleaded guilty. Of course, hundreds of emails are in Mueller's hands.

As in the past, folks may be indicted or impeached for lying to the FBI, the Commission or Congress. By far, it is the easiest crime to prove.

Oh dear....a wailing and a gnashing of teeth...!

Mueller was also “commissioned” to investigate any other crimes that he may find as a result of his primary investigation. I realise that you’d really like this to go away, but you have to be truthful in your resistance....

 

[TLK Valentine]

Aren't we in a truth-free zone and in a world of alternative facts? Just listen to WH comments from yesterday. No one in the campaign knew the man who pleaded guilty. Of course, hundreds of emails are in Mueller's hands.

As in the past, folks may be indicted or impeached for lying to the FBI, the Commission or Congress. By far, it is the easiest crime to prove.

Especially when they plead guilty. Donald's team may be scrambling to claim they never knew Papadopoulos, but I'll bet my blessings he knows them...

...and for a little time off his sentence, I'll bet he'll talk all about it.

 

[KCfromNC]

Papadopoulos will make a fine witness. I'm sure that he has already provided all the emails between him, others in the campaign, in the transition and in the WH.

Plus the details of his plea bargain were sealed so he could be proactive cooperator in the investigation : Opinion | Why George Papadopoulos Is More Dangerous Than Paul Manafort

Third, a paragraph in the plea agreement indicates that Mr. Papadopoulos pleaded guilty on Oct. 5 and the plea was sealed so that he could act as a “proactive cooperator.” The meaning of that phrase is unclear. But one nerve-racking possible implication is that Mr. Papadopoulos has recently worn a wire in conversations with other former campaign officials.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Actually the special counsel was commissioned by the Justice dept to investigate Russian collusion in the 2016 election cycle.

Of the 12 charges against Manafort how many dealt with Russian collusion in the 2016 election? Apparently none.

Is Manafort a tax evading (illegal) money laundering (illegal) international lobbyist (not illegal) influence peddler (perhaps not illegal)? Probably he is and we will find out as his trial progresses (he and his minion pleaded not guilty).

Yet all of the charges deal with his prior employment before coming to the Trump campaign. So those who say "not related to Trump" are correct. There's more connection to John Podesta and his brother with regards to the indictment. Podesta group had dealings with Manafort when he was influence peddling and laundering money (allegedly) with Russia, the Ukraine et. al.

Cops investigate one crime; find evidence of other, possibly related crimes. Sounds like good police work to me.

Now this is the question I want liberals to answer.

How dearly do liberals hold to the 4th Amendment?

The Fourth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution provides that "[t]he right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
Fourth Amendment

This is what happened: special counsel given scope to investigate Trump campaign collusion with Russia with regards to 2016 election.

Special counsel raids the home of Manafort via forced entry, his wife in PJs as FBI picks the front door lock. Home raided of perhaps a corrupt man with no prior convictions and the evidence obtained has nothing to do with Manafort's tenure under Trump campaign. He now faces charges the Special counsel did not set out to investigate.

FBI raided Paul Manafort home as part of Russia probe - CNNPolitics


Liberals are you comfortable with an unelected arm of the Justice dept appointed by one unelected or Senate confirmed individual with such powers to violate private citizen's 4th Amendment rights?

We hold the 4th Amendment quite dearly... my question to you is, how well do you understand it?

The 4th Amendment requires law enforcement (who are, for the most part, unelected, BTW) to show probable cause to a judge to obtain a search warrant (which Mueller did, BTW)... not to knock politely at the door and wait to be invited in for tea and crumpets.

Had Manafort not been a white (collar) criminal or so closely connected to Donald himself, I find it unlikely that our friends on the right would be batting an eye. After all, are they not the party of "Lock her up! Lock her up! Lock her up!"?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Plus the details of his plea bargain were sealed so he could be proactive cooperator in the investigation : Opinion | Why George Papadopoulos Is More Dangerous Than Paul Manafort

A pity this didn't all come out during the campaign -- Donald could've beaten out William Henry Harrison for the shortest presidency.

 

[KCfromNC]

Actually the special counsel was commissioned by the Justice dept to investigate Russian collusion in the 2016 election cycle.

That's 1 of 3 things the special counsel was authorized to investigate. Why leave out the other 2 items?

 

[KCfromNC]

Especially when they plead guilty. Donald's team may be scrambling to claim they never knew Papadopoulos, but I'll bet my blessings he knows them...

Here's a picture of Trump and Papadopoulos together :

He's the guy in the dark tie two down from Jeff "had-to-recuse-himself-from-the-Russia-investivation" Sessions. But I'm sure that unpaid low level volunteers always get a seat with the President all the time. Nothing to see here. Say, did you hear about Hillary's e-mails?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Here's a picture of Trump and Papadopoulos together :

He's the guy in the dark tie two down from Jeff "had-to-recuse-himself-from-the-Russia-investivation" Sessions.

"Poppa... doppa? Papa Bear? Papa John's? Great Pizza! The best! Love it bigly!" -- DJT at his upcoming impeachment deposition.

 

[Goonie]

Only just caught this but Trump is personally vetting the nominees for federal prosecutors in New York and Washington DC, you know the people who will be responsible for prosecuting Manefort and co. How will Donald Trump respond to the Russia investigation? | Lawrence Douglas

 

[camille70]

Actually the special counsel was commissioned by the Justice dept to investigate Russian collusion in the 2016 election cycle.

Of the 12 charges against Manafort how many dealt with Russian collusion in the 2016 election? Apparently none.

Is Manafort a tax evading (illegal) money laundering (illegal) international lobbyist (not illegal) influence peddler (perhaps not illegal)? Probably he is and we will find out as his trial progresses (he and his minion pleaded not guilty).

Yet all of the charges deal with his prior employment before coming to the Trump campaign. So those who say "not related to Trump" are correct. There's more connection to John Podesta and his brother with regards to the indictment. Podesta group had dealings with Manafort when he was influence peddling and laundering money (allegedly) with Russia, the Ukraine et. al.

Now this is the question I want liberals to answer.

How dearly do liberals hold to the 4th Amendment?

The Fourth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution provides that "[t]he right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
Fourth Amendment

This is what happened: special counsel given scope to investigate Trump campaign collusion with Russia with regards to 2016 election.

Special counsel raids the home of Manafort via forced entry, his wife in PJs as FBI picks the front door lock. Home raided of perhaps a corrupt man with no prior convictions and the evidence obtained has nothing to do with Manafort's tenure under Trump campaign. He now faces charges the Special counsel did not set out to investigate.

FBI raided Paul Manafort home as part of Russia probe - CNNPolitics


Liberals are you comfortable with an unelected arm of the Justice dept appointed by one unelected or Senate confirmed individual with such powers to violate private citizen's 4th Amendment rights?

The Manafort indictment has been described as a living document. Most likely he will be charged for other things later, but I've read the statute of limitations were running out on some items plus it may be used to leverage him for other things.

George Papadopolous is the one to watch. He's already pleaded guilty and provided new information regarding Russia. Most likely he's been wearing a wire for the past few months. His sentencing will only be 0-6 months. It has been suggested that one of the unnamed superiors we was keeping appraised of his actions at the time was none other than the Honorable Jefferson Beauregard Sessions.

 

[camille70]

Especially when they plead guilty. Donald's team may be scrambling to claim they never knew Papadopoulos, but I'll bet my blessings he knows them...

...and for a little time off his sentence, I'll bet he'll talk all about it.

Edit: the picture was already posted above.

There is a picture of them sitting down in a meeting with about 10 other people.

 

[camille70]

Only just caught this but Trump is personally vetting the nominees for federal prosecutors in New York and Washington DC, you know the people who will be responsible for prosecuting Manefort and co. How will Donald Trump respond to the Russia investigation? | Lawrence Douglas

FL also.

 

[mark kennedy]

The way I get this Manfort has been doing this for years and we're talking millions of dollars. He would probably still be getting away with it if he had stayed away from Trump, but I think a lot of people are learning that the hard way. I remember the Rose, prosecuted in the Whitewater nonsense were told repeatedly they could get a deal if they give them something on Clinton, they always refused. Pleading not guilty is risky but at least you don't waive your rights. This is going to be epic.

 

[TLK Valentine]

The way I get this Manfort has been doing this for years and we're talking millions of dollars.

Which raises two important questions:

1: Was Donald aware of this when he hired Manafort?
2: Was this the reason Donald hired Manafort in the first place?

If either of those answers is yes, then el presidente has some 'splainin' to do...

 

[withwonderingawe]

That's not really the significance of the Papadopoulos documents. This is what I'm taking from it:

(a) Papadopoulos was working/communicating with actor(s) he knew were trying to subvert the election (he had been made aware of Clinton email, felt it necessary to lie about his contacts)

(b) Papadopoulos had discussions with high level campaign officials after the point he became aware of such email

(c) Mueller has additional information on this topic he has not yet revealed, and Papadopoulos is now cooperating with Mueller

I'm not a lawyer, so take this with a grain of salt. None of this implies Trump colluded with Russia. What it seems designed to do is put pressure on unnamed campaign officials. The question is, "how much information did Papadopoulus pass onto them".

I'm not going to say it's a 100% thing, but the wording and timing of this suggests to me that Mueller either strongly suspects or is fully aware that Papadopoulus passed at least some information to them with regard to Clinton email. If true, and again I don't guarantee it is, this in turn raises many more questions about the Trump campaign, some of Trump's denials, and other events like Trump Jr's meeting.

The story isn't over yet. The next act could be a lot more interesting. There are still many unknowns.

*Ya know he was a volunteer and not on a payroll, he was trying to be noticed.

(a) Papadopoulos was working/communicating with actor(s) he knew were trying to subvert the election (he had been made aware of Clinton email, felt it necessary to lie about his contacts)

How could he know they were planning to subvert the election? Ya think they opened up their whole plan to a volunteer, if they were working for the Gremlin they knew exactly who he was.

*(b) Papadopoulos had discussions with high level campaign officials after the point he became aware of such email

Pap knew on April 26, but which Emails?

The indictment says “… the professor had told him about the Russians possessing "dirt" on then-candidate Hillary Clinton in the form of "thousands of emails,"

Was he told at that time they were from Pedesta’s computer? We don’t have the answer to that yet, which might make the difference.

*On July 22 wikileaks began publishing Pedesta’s Russian hacked emails however no one publicly knew who had done it.

Trump was joking on July 29th about the 30,000 missing emails from Hillary’s wiped clean server.

So … what does that mean?

Did he think the Pedesta’s emails were separate from Hillary’s missing stash and the Russians still had them, it appears he did.

*The actual hacking into Pedesta’s computer occurred in March and Trump’s campaign didn’t learn about Emails until April so…. that shows they did not organize or pay for the hacking, ie no collusions to subvert the elections on Trump’s part.

Alan Dershowitz who is a far left liberal but a darn good lawyer still says there is still nothing illegal here. It’s not illegal for Trump to be told the Russians hacked the DNC or that they might have Hillary’s missing emails. It’s not illegal for him to say, hey publish those so the world can see how corrupt she and the Democrats are.

 

[TLK Valentine]

*Ya know he was a volunteer and not on a payroll, he was trying to be noticed.

Perhaps he succeeded.

 

[KCfromNC]

Alan Dershowitz who is a far left liberal but a darn good lawyer still says there is still nothing illegal here.

That's pretty hard to buy given that there's already one criminal conviction coming out of this recently released information.

 

[TLK Valentine]

That's pretty hard to buy given that there's already one criminal conviction coming out of this recently released information.

In all fairness, there are people who plead "guilty" to things are aren't illegal... we call them "imbeciles."