Did Paul consider himself a "sinner", are we supposed to think of ourselves as sinners...?

[SBC]

I don't know. What would he be doing?

Well? Wouldn't He be failing at his freeing a man from sin?

I've never met a man that never commits sin. Not one. Well, except for Christ. But I've not met his flesh - yet.

I have never met a man who is born of God, that can stand against God in disbelief.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[SBC]

To be absolutely clear, are you talking about the body/flesh or the carnal nature/flesh?

Natural born flesh body of dust.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[SBC]

How do you account for the sin of Peter in Galatians 3? Was he not born of God?

I am not a mind-reader of what you are asking.
Could you be more specific and cite a verse?

Thanks,
God Bless,
SBC

 

[Almost there]

Oh, yipes. I'll pass on your analogy and stick with Scripture.

1 John 3
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

God Bless,
SBC

My analogy is sort of a way of saying what this says:

First John 3:9 does not teach the Reformed doctrine of the perseverance of the saints. Indeed, no passage does. God perseveres. Saints at best fail daily. First John 3:9 is a call to holiness. Our new natures are pure and holy. Let us live in our experience like we are in our position. Of course, there is a mystery here. John said in 1 John 1:8,10 that believers cannot attain to sinless perfection in their experience. However, we can allow our new natures to dominate our experience so that we live consistently godly lives. May we live like who we are: children of the Holy One who has saved us by His amazing, free grace.

From here: Grace in Focus: "Do Born Again People Sin? 1 John 3:9" by Bob Wilkin

Or from here: 1 John 3:9 - No one who is born... - Verse-by-Verse Commentary

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin - This passage must either mean that they who are born of God, that is, who are true Christians, do not sin habitually and characteristically, or that everyone who is a true Christian is absolutely perfect, and never commits any sin. If it can be used as referring to the doctrine of absolute perfection at all, it proves, not that Christians may be perfect, or that a “portion” of them are, but that all are. But who can maintain this? Who can believe that John meant to affirm this? Nothing can be clearer than that the passage has not this meaning, and that John did not teach a doctrine so contrary to the current strain of the Scriptures, and to fact; and if he did not teach this, then in this whole passage he refers to those who are habitually and characteristically righteous.

 

[SeventyOne]

I am not a mind-reader of what you are asking.
Could you be more specific and cite a verse?

Thanks,
God Bless,
SBC

Sorry, I just assumed you were familiar with the event.

Galatians 2:11-13 But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. For before certain men came from James, he was eating with the Gentiles; but when they came he drew back and separated himself, fearing the circumcision party. And the rest of the Jews acted hypocritically along with him, so that even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy.

 

[Almost there]

And this one really gets into it:
How should we understand "he cannot sin" in 1 John 3:9?

I find this whole thing fascinating because whenever someone makes the argument that "true" Christians literally never sin, I kind of bristle, because what always comes to mind when this subject comes up is another verse in 1 John. It is 1 John 1:8 - If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

 

[SBC]

My analogy is sort of a way of saying what this says:

First John 3:9 does not teach the Reformed doctrine of the perseverance of the saints. Indeed, no passage does. God perseveres. Saints at best fail daily. First John 3:9 is a call to holiness. Our new natures are pure and holy. Let us live in our experience like we are in our position. Of course, there is a mystery here. John said in 1 John 1:8,10 that believers cannot attain to sinless perfection in their experience. However, we can allow our new natures to dominate our experience so that we live consistently godly lives. May we live like who we are: children of the Holy One who has saved us by His amazing, free grace.

From here: Grace in Focus: "Do Born Again People Sin? 1 John 3:9" by Bob Wilkin

Or from here: 1 John 3:9 - No one who is born... - Verse-by-Verse Commentary

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin - This passage must either mean that they who are born of God, that is, who are true Christians, do not sin habitually and characteristically, or that everyone who is a true Christian is absolutely perfect, and never commits any sin. If it can be used as referring to the doctrine of absolute perfection at all, it proves, not that Christians may be perfect, or that a “portion” of them are, but that all are. But who can maintain this? Who can believe that John meant to affirm this? Nothing can be clearer than that the passage has not this meaning, and that John did not teach a doctrine so contrary to the current strain of the Scriptures, and to fact; and if he did not teach this, then in this whole passage he refers to those who are habitually and characteristically righteous.

Saints at best fail daily~ disagree

believers cannot attain to sinless perfection~ no natural man is sinless

This passage must either mean that they who are born of God, that is, who are true Christians, do not sin habitually and characteristically, or that everyone who is a true Christian is absolutely perfect,~ disagree

God Bless,
SBC

 

[Neogaia777]

I am not a mind-reader of what you are asking.
Could you be more specific and cite a verse?

Thanks,
God Bless,
SBC

He's talking about Peter and Paul's dispute (I think), (but think he's talking about Galatians 2:14, though)... Peter's sin... and, was he not "born again", and "born of God", and had the Holy Spirit in or with him, all that...

I'd like and answer to that as well...?

I'd say yes, but don't know about others...?

God Bless!

 

[Almost there]

Saints at best fail daily~ disagree

believers cannot attain to sinless perfection~ no natural man is sinless

This passage must either mean that they who are born of God, that is, who are true Christians, do not sin habitually and characteristically, or that everyone who is a true Christian is absolutely perfect,~ disagree

God Bless,
SBC

Ok. I guess it falls into "opinions vary". Thanks!

 

[SBC]

And this one really gets into it:
How should we understand "he cannot sin" in 1 John 3:9?

I find this whole thing fascinating because whenever someone makes the argument that "true" Christians literally never sin, I kind of bristle, because what always comes to mind when this subject comes up is another verse in 1 John. It is 1 John 1:8 - If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Kind of an odd thing to say, since you and I have been conversing back and forth -
not once have I said such a thing - so you are not addressing me, correct?

And BTW - who has said: (that you find this verse applicable)?

If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[1stcenturylady]

Natural born flesh body of dust.

God Bless,
SBC

How can the body sin?

 

[SBC]

Ok. I guess it falls into "opinions vary". Thanks!

I am not trusting my opinion, nor yours.
I Trust Gods Truth and Scripture.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[1stcenturylady]

And this one really gets into it:
How should we understand "he cannot sin" in 1 John 3:9?

I find this whole thing fascinating because whenever someone makes the argument that "true" Christians literally never sin, I kind of bristle, because what always comes to mind when this subject comes up is another verse in 1 John. It is 1 John 1:8 - If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

They seem to contradict don't they. But read 1 John 4:1-3 and you'll get a clue as to whom John is talking about in 1 John 1:6,8,10. In chapter one, only verse 7 applies to a true Christian, which corresponds to 1 John 3:9 and doesn't contradict.

BTW, I sent my testimony to your inbox

 

[SBC]

How can the body sin?

Pss 51
[5] Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Eph 2
[3] ... in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and ...
by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[SBC]

Sorry, I just assumed you were familiar with the event.

Galatians 2:11-13 But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. For before certain men came from James, he was eating with the Gentiles; but when they came he drew back and separated himself, fearing the circumcision party. And the rest of the Jews acted hypocritically along with him, so that even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy.

I see Peter being accused by other men.
What part of this Scripture reveals Peter, standing against God in disbelief?

God Bless,
SBC

 

[SBC]

He's talking about Peter and Paul's dispute (I think), (but think he's talking about Galatians 2:14, though)... Peter's sin... and, was he not "born again", and "born of God", and had the Holy Spirit in or with him, all that...

I'd like and answer to that as well...?

I'd say yes, but don't know about others...?

God Bless!

I don't like guessing what others are thinking.
And he clarified and I replied.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[1stcenturylady]

Pss 51
[5] Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Eph 2
[3] ... in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and ...
by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

God Bless,
SBC

Those desires are what are dead in Christ. What do you believe? That our spirit is saved, but our flesh can still sin and those sins are forgiven?

 

[Almost there]

Kind of an odd thing to say, since you and I have been conversing back and forth -
not once have I said such a thing - so you are not addressing me, correct?

And BTW - who has said: (that you find this verse applicable)?

If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

God Bless,
SBC

I'm not addressing anything you said specifically. It's just that I've noticed people do use the one verse in 1 John to suggest a Christian can be sinless, literally, while 1 John 1:8 says that anyone that says they have no sin is self deceiving and does not have the truth in them. It means either John is contradicting himself or the interpretations of his words are what is contradictory. Then one must look elsewhere to get an understanding of what John wrote.

I see a lot of what is in the bible as a form of "Yogi Berra speak". I use this specific example from Yogi when talking about a particular restaurant: Nobody goes there any more because it is too crowded.

Now, taken literally, it makes no sense. but if you understand how language is actually used and understand Yogi, you know exactly what he was saying.

Same thing here.

I'm new on this site, but you will see me, over time, use the Yogi Berra argument a lot, as I do in the "real" world.

 

[Almost there]

I am not trusting my opinion, nor yours.
I Trust Gods Truth and Scripture.

God Bless,
SBC

You said you disagree. That is a statement of opinion. Yours.

No offense. I'm just saying it is what you said.

 

[SeventyOne]

I see Peter being accused by other men.
What part of this Scripture reveals Peter, standing against God in disbelief?

God Bless,
SBC

It was plainly laid out in the scripture I quoted.

"And the rest of the Jews acted hypocritically along with him, so that even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy."

Peter was committing the sin of hypocrisy.