• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

The sign of the Cross/ Spiritual Weapon or attention getter?

Fidelibus

Well-Known Member
Jan 4, 2017
1,192
304
69
U.S.A.
✟81,574.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
What do you think? For me, it is a very powerful prayer, (yes, it is a prayer) and Spiritual Weapon against Satan and his demons. Because the sign of the Cross is the mark of our redemption, Satan hates it. Demons flee from the sign of the cross when it is devoutly made. Recently after Mass, my fiance' and I stopped for breakfast. As usual, we cross ourselves before giving thanks to God for our breakfast. A short time later, this Evangelical Christian lady come up to our table and said, " You two must be Catholics" and I said yes we were. She goes on to say she thought so because we crossed ourselves, and that only Catholics do it.

She also asked why we cross ourselves. When I explained why, as I did in my opening statement here, she just rolled her eyes and said that she thinks the only reason Catholics do it is to bring attention to themselves. When I told her that was not the case at all, she just huffed and puffed as she walked away saying she would never dream of doing such a thing, in public no less.

I was quite taken aback by this lady, and began to wonder why she found crossing ourselves so offensive, and why most non-Catholics don't use this most powerful prayer in their daily lives. Making the sign of the cross has been a part of Christianity from the most earlist times, for example. St. Cyril of Jerusalem (AD 386), Bishop of Jerusalem, says the following of this powerful sign:

"Let us, therefore, not be ashamed of the Cross of Christ; but though another hide it, do thou openly seal it upon thy forehead, that the devils may behold the royal sign and flee trembling far away. Make then this sign at eating and drinking, at sitting, at lying down, at rising up, at speaking, at walking: in a word, at every act."

Even Martin Luther urged his followers to use the sign. In his Catechism of 1529 he instructed fathers to teach their households the following: "In the morning, when you rise from bed, sign yourself with the holy cross and say, 'In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen.'...At night, when you go to bed, sign yourself with the holy cross and say, 'In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen.'"

So when did this change in Protestantism, and who was it that frowned against most Protestants from doing it?

Look forward to all responces.
 

Gregory Thompson

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.
Site Supporter
Dec 20, 2009
30,436
8,626
Canada
✟907,139.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Married
It's kind of like a lot of other Catholic things, it's just not introduced. I tend to pray confessions due to my sensitivity to sin in my surroundings. I understand any gesture could be powerful for God to work through if there's faith in your use of it.
 
Upvote 0

drjean

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Nov 16, 2011
15,284
4,511
✟358,220.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
May I politely post?
While I understand how making the sign of the cross "grounds" you in prayer, it does call attention to you quite sharply. I'm not saying that is good nor bad, I'm just suggesting that it's fact. It would be the "only" in the woman's comment with which I disagree.

I'm sure there is Scripture on all sides showing how it's okay or not... very interested in reading the pondered comments here, thanks!
 
Upvote 0

Dave G.

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2017
4,682
5,351
75
Sandiwich
✟383,363.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
Of course it could be used as prayer but you could just as well say the prayer too. The action itself is clearly outward, though I like your analogy of the devil seeing it, there is absolutely no spiritual reason for other people to see it.. I think more to the point though, is some people do it and they don't even know why. I witnessed to a lady recently in fact, and when asked about prayer she stated I do this, and made the sign of the cross over her chest. She obviously did not know what "this" was.

I've found the best and most effective prayers to the Lord are personal and not canned repetitions. This same lady had no clue about that either, when I said lets pray, she asked what prayer are we going to say ( she was wondering what canned repetition will we recite). Incidentally she was a non practicing Catholic. I'm not here to knock Catholics by any stretch of the imagination but I do feel that they have an inordinate amount of people out there not practicing and have no clue about anything of God's wishes or desires in our spiritual walk, never mind prayer life. The church really needs to do something to reel these poor folks back in. The same folks will know everything going on in town and the score of the latest football games etc.. but nothing of the Lord and they know how to do " this" ( sign of the cross).. That could be their entire spiritual walk with Jesus Christ and it could be so much more !

You might find it interesting that I served in services with a non denominational evangelical pastor who fairly often recited and made the sign of the cross, usually when someone tossed a particularly off color remark his way or one that he found particularly non biblical , as if to wart off the evil..
 
Last edited:
  • Informative
Reactions: Phil 1:21
Upvote 0

Dave G.

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2017
4,682
5,351
75
Sandiwich
✟383,363.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
Is visible faith really that big of an issue in the postmodern world we're living?
No,if that's what it is and not just a display with no meaning behind it. Meaningless displays though are just that, meaningless.
 
Upvote 0

Sarah G van G

Pro-peace, anti-war, anti-violence.
Site Supporter
Jun 29, 2017
911
1,146
52
Netherlands
✟158,511.00
Country
Netherlands
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I'm not a Catholic and I make the sign of the cross very often. It certainly is a prayer to me. I consider it to be very powerful and sacred. It is a blessing, to me. I grew up seeing Anglican priests do it and I guess, Catholics. It is very normal and natural to me. I guess I don't do it in public and now I wonder why...I suppose I don't want to come across as overly religious, zealous or holier than thou.

Edit: I just realised why; I don't like to do or say anything that might lead a person to blaspheme the Lord or to say anything offensive or insulting about the Godhead or believers as I consider it to be leading them into sin.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: RDKirk
Upvote 0

Stabat Mater dolorosa

Jesus Christ today, yesterday and forever!
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2014
17,708
8,068
Somewhere up North
✟339,001.00
Country
Norway
Gender
Male
Faith
Traditional. Cath.
Marital Status
Single
No,if that's what it is and not just a display with no meaning behind it. Meaningless displays though are just that, meaningless.

I think I can speak for more than myself when I say that it's absolutely not about simple gesture. Its surrender to Christ, its a prayer, its a declaration of love, its remembering my fallibility and a reach out for the king of the universe not to let me wither and perish.
So as you can see it's a real swing and a miss to see it as mechanical and empty.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sarah G van G
Upvote 0

Dave G.

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2017
4,682
5,351
75
Sandiwich
✟383,363.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
I'm not a Catholic and I make the sign of the cross very often. It certainly is a prayer to me. I consider it to be very powerful and sacred. It is a blessing, to me. I grew up seeing Anglican priests do it and I guess, Catholics. It is very normal and natural to me. I guess I don't do it in public and now I wonder why...I suppose I don't want to come across as overly religious, zealous or holier than thou.
I used to use it as a lead off into prayer. There are words that go with it you know ? In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. That sounds like a perfect lead into prayer doesn't it ? Or indeed you could be blessing yourself in their name as well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sarah G van G
Upvote 0

Dave G.

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2017
4,682
5,351
75
Sandiwich
✟383,363.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
I think I can speak for more than myself when I say that it's absolutely not about simple gesture. Its surrender to Christ, its a prayer, its a declaration of love, its remembering my fallibility and a reach out for the king of the universe not to let me wither and perish.
So as you can see it's a real swing and a miss to see it as mechanical and empty.
Yes indeed, but it seems some people don't know that. They don't know why they do it, they just do it, probably because they were told to as kids..
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Stabat Mater dolorosa

Jesus Christ today, yesterday and forever!
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2014
17,708
8,068
Somewhere up North
✟339,001.00
Country
Norway
Gender
Male
Faith
Traditional. Cath.
Marital Status
Single
Yes indeed, but it seems some people don't know that. They don't know why they do it, they just do it, probably because they told to as kids..

That's true, there are tons of poor catechesis out there.
 
Upvote 0

Sarah G van G

Pro-peace, anti-war, anti-violence.
Site Supporter
Jun 29, 2017
911
1,146
52
Netherlands
✟158,511.00
Country
Netherlands
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I used to use it as a lead off into prayer. There are words that go with it you know ? In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. That sounds like a perfect lead into prayer doesn't it ? Or indeed you could be blessing yourself in their name as well.
Yes, I say that as I do it and indeed it is a blessing.
 
Upvote 0

HisBody

Active Member
Oct 12, 2017
196
36
60
California
✟17,679.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
During Lent - I met my wife for lunch at a local fast food place where we ordered fish sandwiches. Before we ate, we sat at our table, made the sign of the cross and prayed. While we were eating, an employee of the restaurant walked up to us and commented on hos he appreciated seeing people giving thanks before eating - and that he almost never sees that at his restaurant. He was not a Catholic, by the way.

Did the sign of the cross "call attention"?
Absolutely
.
Was it a bad thing? Absolutely not.

It brought 3 fellow Christians to a charitable dialogue about our shared bond in Christ.
 
Upvote 0

seeking.IAM

A View From The Pew
Site Supporter
Feb 29, 2004
4,920
5,697
Indiana
✟1,160,728.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
I suspect the real issue for the woman mentioned in the OP was not so much about the sign of the cross but a negative bias toward the Catholic Church, as is present in many evangelical protestant quarters (and even christianforums.com -- Have you read any "harlot of Babylon" posts lately?).

She is not well-informed enough to know the sign of the cross is an ancient tradition and practice from the earliest days of Christianity, nor does she know that it is practiced outside of the Church of Rome by Orthodox, Anglican, & other Christians. She also appears to be unfamiliar with Matthew 10:32 -33 or Luke 12:8.

In my travels, I seem to be seeing more mainline Protestants adopting the sign of the cross all the time. :crossrc:
 
Upvote 0

bbbbbbb

Well-Known Member
Jun 9, 2015
30,686
14,015
73
✟428,786.00
Faith
Non-Denom
As a child growing up in a Catholic city, there were all forms of visible Catholicism. It seemed that the Catholic folks enjoyed letting everyone else know how pious they were. For example, neighbors would slam their doors loudly at 5:30 a.m. to let everyone in the neighborhood know that they were going to the 6:00 a.m. daily mass. In the personal ads there were frequent testimonies to the monetary blessings showered on those who had been praying to Mary and/or various saints.

The making of the sign of the cross went along with all of these other things. The irony, from my perspective, is that nothing really ever seemed to change. The Catholic folks continued to live their lives, sometimes in really nasty forms. Drunkenness was quite common. The non-Catholics went along with their lives and never paid that much attention to what their Catholic neighbors were up to, except when they were awakened rudely every morning, which was actually better than the knock-down, drag-out fights in the wee hours of the morning.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Sarah G van G
Upvote 0

HisBody

Active Member
Oct 12, 2017
196
36
60
California
✟17,679.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
As a child growing up in a Catholic city, there were all forms of visible Catholicism. It seemed that the Catholic folks enjoyed letting everyone else know how pious they were. For example, neighbors would slam their doors loudly at 5:30 a.m. to let everyone in the neighborhood know that they were going to the 6:00 a.m. daily mass. In the personal ads there were frequent testimonies to the monetary blessings showered on those who had been praying to Mary and/or various saints.

The making of the sign of the cross went along with all of these other things. The irony, from my perspective, is that nothing really ever seemed to change. The Catholic folks continued to live their lives, sometimes in really nasty forms. Drunkenness was quite common. The non-Catholics went along with their lives and never paid that much attention to what their Catholic neighbors were up to, except when they were awakened rudely every morning, which was actually better than the knock-down, drag-out fights in the wee hours of the morning.
This post is the height of the ignorant anti-Catholic drivel I seen on forums like this.

I'm sure ALL of the Catholics in your neighborhood conspired to "slam" their doors to wake you up.

What utter nonsense . . .
 
Upvote 0

Stabat Mater dolorosa

Jesus Christ today, yesterday and forever!
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2014
17,708
8,068
Somewhere up North
✟339,001.00
Country
Norway
Gender
Male
Faith
Traditional. Cath.
Marital Status
Single
As a child growing up in a Catholic city, there were all forms of visible Catholicism. It seemed that the Catholic folks enjoyed letting everyone else know how pious they were. For example, neighbors would slam their doors loudly at 5:30 a.m. to let everyone in the neighborhood know that they were going to the 6:00 a.m. daily mass. In the personal ads there were frequent testimonies to the monetary blessings showered on those who had been praying to Mary and/or various saints.

The making of the sign of the cross went along with all of these other things. The irony, from my perspective, is that nothing really ever seemed to change. The Catholic folks continued to live their lives, sometimes in really nasty forms. Drunkenness was quite common. The non-Catholics went along with their lives and never paid that much attention to what their Catholic neighbors were up to, except when they were awakened rudely every morning, which was actually better than the knock-down, drag-out fights in the wee hours of the morning.

We are sinners and we need Christ's mercy and we cling to the cross, how about that?!
Just because we trust Christ with our soul doesn't mean our alcoholism or other faults go away over night.

I think you may have read more into the actions of your Catholic neighbours. Even if they were proud of their faith why is that something wrong?

Romans 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel. It is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: for Jew first, and then Greek. 17 For in it is revealed the righteousness of God from faith to faith; as it is written, “The one who is righteous by faith will live.”
 
Upvote 0

bbbbbbb

Well-Known Member
Jun 9, 2015
30,686
14,015
73
✟428,786.00
Faith
Non-Denom
This post is the height of the ignorant anti-Catholic drivel I seen on forums like this.

I'm sure ALL of the Catholics in your neighborhood conspired to "slam" their doors to wake you up.

What utter nonsense . . .

I thought it was nonsense at the time, as well. I am glad you agree with me.
 
Upvote 0

HisBody

Active Member
Oct 12, 2017
196
36
60
California
✟17,679.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
I thought it was nonsense at the time, as well. I am glad you agree with me.
Soooo, when you find yourself completely incapable of debating Catholic theology - you attack Catholics in general - is that it?

What cowardice . . .
 
Upvote 0