Evidence for Christianity??

[StTruth]

If the blessing is knowing you've done the right thing, then god becomes irrelevant. It was the right thing to do whether god exists or not.

So what makes that a blessing?

The right thing to do definitely is independent of God or the Bible. We sometimes talk about objective morality but that's not correct. One mistake a lot of people make is they have a very fluid understanding of what God thinks is a good thing. They get the 'goodness' from within themselves rather than from God.

How can we determine what God wants? Christians will say that God doesn't want slavery. But the biblical record tells us that is wrong. One way round that is to discredit the biblical record and say God doesn't want slavery. But then that will make God's will very indeterminate. What he wants depends on what a particular Christian says he wants and not what the Bible says. No debate or discussion is possible because what God wants will differ from person to person.

I have looked into this very carefully and I'm persuaded that goodness and morality is really independent of God and the Bible. Unless you use the word 'God' in a loose way to mean any moral code each individual comes up with.

Cheers,

St Truth

 

[Dave Ellis]

The right thing to do definitely is independent of God or the Bible. We sometimes talk about objective morality but that's not correct. One mistake a lot of people make is they have a very fluid understanding of what God thinks is a good thing. They get the 'goodness' from within themselves rather than from God.

How can we determine what God wants? Christians will say that God doesn't want slavery. But the biblical record tells us that is wrong. One way round that is to discredit the biblical record and say God doesn't want slavery. But then that will make God's will very indeterminate. What he wants depends on what a particular Christian says he wants and not what the Bible says. No debate or discussion is possible because what God wants will differ from person to person.

I have looked into this very carefully and I'm persuaded that goodness and morality is really independent of God and the Bible. Unless you use the word 'God' in a loose way to mean any moral code each individual comes up with.

Cheers,

St Truth

So, how does that blessing matter then?

 

[Chriliman]

If the blessing is knowing you've done the right thing, then god becomes irrelevant. It was the right thing to do whether god exists or not.

So what makes that a blessing?

First of all, it's flawed logic to say a blessing from God means God is irrelevant. Secondly, we should define what a blessing from God is. I'd define it has finding favor with God and being appointed to do what He knows is right(doing his will)

 

[Dave Ellis]

First of all, it's flawed logic to say a blessing from God means God is irrelevant. Secondly, we should define what a blessing from God is. I'd define it has finding favor with God and being appointed to do what He knows is right(doing his will)

So if you're appointed to do what's right, then what's the point of a blessing? You're doing something that is beyond your control. The credit is god's, not yours.

 

[Chriliman]

So if you're appointed to do what's right, then what's the point of a blessing? You're doing something that is beyond your control. The credit is god's, not yours.

He created you to have the ability to follow your own desires and it pleases him when your desires begin to line up with his and he may woo you(not control you) in the right direction. Blessings happen when the relationship between God and you is established, otherwise you wouldn't credit any blessings as coming from God, rather you'd boast in yourself alone.

 

[Ana the Ist]

He created you to have the ability to follow your own desires and it pleases him when your desires begin to line up with his and he may woo you(not control you) in the right direction. Blessings happen when the relationship between God and you is established, otherwise you wouldn't credit any blessings as coming from God, rather you'd boast in yourself alone.

Can you give an example of what you consider a blessing?

 

[Chriliman]

Can you give an example of what you consider a blessing?

Having the ability to help those in need is a blessing from God, both for those who are in need and for the one giving the help.

 

[Dave Ellis]

He created you to have the ability to follow your own desires and it pleases him when your desires begin to line up with his and he may woo you(not control you) in the right direction. Blessings happen when the relationship between God and you is established, otherwise you wouldn't credit any blessings as coming from God, rather you'd boast in yourself alone.

So what exactly is a blessing then?

 

[Dave Ellis]

Having the ability to help those in need is a blessing from God, both for those who are in need and for the one giving the help.

Why is god required to help someone? Are you saying if god didn't exist we would be incapable of helping each other?

 

[Ana the Ist]

While I certainly do not condone condemning people unjustly. I do think it's important to expose wrongs or falsehoods in order to correct, which is what happened to me.

I believe the same...but they must be actual falsehoods, not merely opinions.

I see your point, but ultimately what we believe and do should be for the good of all, even if it means we have to call out wrongs and falsehoods in order to correct people. The point should always be to get to the truth in love even if it gets messy or complicated.

Agreed...but you can only tell people what is correct, they must correct themselves. To force them would strip them of any free will and choice that so many claim your god holds dear.

Also, if this "correction" truly comes from a place of love...then it should be delivered with a generous amount of understanding...not shame. Sadly, I think many christians either don't know this...or don't care. To them, telling others what is "correct" is more a matter of pride and contempt...not love or guidance.

I do believe there is evidence of all the other gods and that this evidence can lead people astray into falsehood, which is why it should be exposed so the true God can be made known. I'm glad to hear that you know God through Christ. I appreciate your kind reply, thank you.

I don't know how you can think there is evidence of other gods...if it's false, it's not evidence. Then again, you've posted some rather unusual ideas about what you think is evidence.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Having the ability to help those in need is a blessing from God, both for those who are in need and for the one giving the help.

Dave beat me to it...but I'll ask the same thing regardless. Why would one need a "blessing" to help someone else? Isn't that a free will choice? Or are you just seeking to give your god credit for the good deeds of regular men and women?

 

[Chriliman]

Are you saying if god didn't exist we would be incapable of helping each other?

Yes, logically, if we're assuming God created us, then there'd be no us to help one another if God doesn't exist. If you're not assuming God exists, then this discussion is pointless.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Yes, logically, if we're assuming God created us, then there'd be no us to help one another if God doesn't exist. If you're not assuming God exists, then this discussion is pointless.

So...we just need god to exist, but not to help each other?

 

[Chriliman]

So...we just need god to exist, but not to help each other?

Just as a child needs parents in order to exist and make choices, all humanity needs God in order to exist and make choices. This doesn't mean the parents control the child's choices, nor does it mean God controls humanities choices.

 

[bhsmte]

Yes, logically, if we're assuming God created us, then there'd be no us to help one another if God doesn't exist. If you're not assuming God exists, then this discussion is pointless.

You use the term logical more than anyone i have seen on this site. Is that because you want to impress upon others, how logical you are?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Just as a child needs parents in order to exist and make choices, all humanity needs God in order to exist and make choices. This doesn't mean the parents control the child's choices, nor does it mean God controls humanities choices.

So, we don't need god to do good things.

 

[Chriliman]

So, we don't need god to do good things.

You do need God to create you before you can do good things. So your ability to do good things is a result of the relationship you have with your creator.
You seem to be really pushing for the ability to do good apart from a loving relationship with God all together, which I believe is impossible.

 

[Ana the Ist]

You do need God to create you before you can do good things. So your ability to do good things is a result of the relationship you have with your creator.

Well one doesn't have anything to do with the other. Jeffery Dahmer had to be born before he could grow up and cannibalize people, but we don't credit his parents for his eating people do we?

If you want to make the argument that god somehow gets credit for everything good that we do because he created us, then make that argument. I'm sure you're not going to because you realize that would make him equally responsible for all the bad we do.

You seem to be really pushing for the ability to do good apart from a loving relationship with God all together, which I believe is impossible.

Lol what?? So no non-christian anywhere, at any time, ever did anything good?

You don't actually believe that, do you?

 

[Dave Ellis]

Yes, logically, if we're assuming God created us, then there'd be no us to help one another if God doesn't exist. If you're not assuming God exists, then this discussion is pointless.

We are here, that much is clear.

The point was if god didn't exist, then why would we be incapable of helping each other?

 

[Dave Ellis]

Just as a child needs parents in order to exist and make choices, all humanity needs God in order to exist and make choices. This doesn't mean the parents control the child's choices, nor does it mean God controls humanities choices.

A child needs parents in order to exist, however a child does not require parents in order to make choices. Parents can be there to guide and help, however in the absence of parents, children can still make choices.

Likewise, humanity doesn't need a god in order to make choices, and there's no reason to assume we need a god in order to exist either.