The worst thing about Calvinism

[Hammster]

You've just made a good argument for Calvinism.

But he probably missed it.

 

[RisenInJesus]

What does a "propitiation" do? And, if it was done for the "whole world", in the sense that David Hunt means, what would that imply?

Just trying to think it through...

I have thought it through.

Propitiation as expressed in the Bible is that Jesus paid for the sins of the world...all sins. Those who believe this truth and gospel message, repent, and trust Him as their Savior are saved. Those who refuse Christ's payment are unsaved. It is quite simple. This is all that Dave Hunt implies or believed.

 

[RisenInJesus]

Not badly enough, apparently.

Why? Because He also values love freely given in response to His?

 

[RisenInJesus]

It's no surprise that many who profess the name of Christ do not believe in the gospel of Gods grace according to scripture. And as well have a hatred for the God of the Bible. Including Dave Hunt. The worst thing about these threads is that it hardens further the reprobate in their sin and unbelief

Hardens one against God's love and grace or Calvinism? I think threads like this inspire more gratitude for the true character and love of God and hardness toward the latter, twisted theology of men.

 

[RisenInJesus]

Source of quote please.

Apples of Gold - August 24

 

[RisenInJesus]

Yeah, Calvinism is pretty out there in left field. Not sure how people can actually buy this type of belief, but yet they do somehow. The problem is that Calvinism seeks to paint God in a bad light (that is not true).


...

I think people buy into it because they tend to be overly intellectual or analytical and a systematic theology like Calvinism makes the feel like they have everything wrapped up with their understanding of the Bible and they are spiritually superior to those Christians who simply believe the straightforward gospel message. Others accept Calvinism after being exposed repeatedly to Calvinist authors and preachers until they are finally indoctrinated. I personally know both types: some who spend their time persuading others and others who go from being regular believers to Calvinists after being persuaded and indoctrinated over time.

 

[RisenInJesus]

“It is usually considered good practice to examine a thing for one's self before echoing the vulgar ridicule of it.” ― J. Gresham Machen

.
.
.

That's right and that is why I have spent years researching this subject.

 

[RisenInJesus]

Well, he's with Christ now.

Yes, with Christ who paid for the sins of the world.

 

[RisenInJesus]

I don't see any evidence that he believed the gospel according to scripture. Unless the Spirit of God leads His people into two opposite directions regarding the truth of the gospel

He didn't believe the gospel of the Bible or the gospel of Calvinism? Many true believers do not think Calvinism is the biblical gospel and in fact is a false gospel.

 

[RisenInJesus]

Dave Hunt is currently a convinced Calvinist.

You do not know that.

 

[St_Worm2]

...the elect

Hi BTS, here are several verses/passages that do a good job describing God's elect (take special note of the underlined words/phrases). In fact, many such verses/passages, like those from Romans and Ephesians below, not only describe, but were written/addressed to the elect alone.

Luke 5
31 Jesus answered and said to them, “It is not those who are well who need a physician, but those who are sick.
32 I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.

Romans 3
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

Romans 4
5 To the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness.

Ephesians 2
1 You were dead in your trespasses and sins,
2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.​

If God's election of us is based upon something that He sees in us, then our life in the age to come will be spent with the reprobate, not with God.

Yours and His,
David

 

[MDC]

He didn't believe the gospel of the Bible or the gospel of Calvinism? Many true believers do not think Calvinism is the biblical gospel and in fact is a false gospel.

You are correct. Dave Hunt didn't believe the gospel according to the Bible. He actually hated it according to his writings and debates... and is why the gospel, as it relates to the doctrines of grace, is a stumbling stone for false professors

 

[redleghunter]

Apples of Gold - August 24

Meaning the actual source. Not a site with a quote.

Not poking eyes I just like to see quotes in context.

 

[MDC]

I think people buy into it because they tend to be overly intellectual or analytical and a systematic theology like Calvinism makes the feel like they have everything wrapped up with their understanding of the Bible and they are spiritually superior to those Christians who simply believe the straightforward gospel message. Others accept Calvinism after being exposed repeatedly to Calvinist authors and preachers until they are finally indoctrinated. I personally know both types: some who spend their time persuading others and others who go from being regular believers to Calvinists after being persuaded and indoctrinated over time.

Your analysis is completely wrong based on arrogance

 

[Hammster]

I have thought it through.

Propitiation as expressed in the Bible is that Jesus paid for the sins of the world...all sins. Those who believe this truth and gospel message, repent, and trust Him as their Savior are saved. Those who refuse Christ's payment are unsaved. It is quite simple. This is all that Dave Hunt implies or believed.

Paid for. Does that mean that God's wrath was satisfied?

 

[Hammster]

I think people buy into it because they tend to be overly intellectual or analytical and a systematic theology like Calvinism makes the feel like they have everything wrapped up with their understanding of the Bible and they are spiritually superior to those Christians who simply believe the straightforward gospel message. Others accept Calvinism after being exposed repeatedly to Calvinist authors and preachers until they are finally indoctrinated. I personally know both types: some who spend their time persuading others and others who go from being regular believers to Calvinists after being persuaded and indoctrinated over time.

While those two examples may be true, there is a third option.

 

[Hammster]

Yes, with Christ who paid for the sins of the world.

That would be a form of universalism.

 

[Hammster]

You do not know that.

Sure I do.

 

[Blade]

Hmm.. so it seems clear to me.. unless I am reading it wrong.. which I can be...but seems ALLOT of you "talk" as if your in some different camp? "Calvinism" vs ? Your stand?.. your camp?.. as if what you believe is some how the (forgive me) the real truth? I say "real truth" because some seem to really want to distance them selfs from this. I have never seem myself in a "camp" a one group...like this site very much is..broken up into groups.

NO offense to you Hammster. (just using you as an example...like.. come up front and we now show the class..haha). Someone said "Christ that paid for the sins of the world". You said "form of universalism". Why does this have to have a name? Yes.. I can see it.. for me..thats the easy way.

Not sure how the other side..sides of this are any different. Maybe to some Calvinism is a room with all the doors closed and the other side, all the doors are open...or its flipped. Maybe.. we are trying to look at the wrong person.

HAMMSTER! I read your SIG. And it reminded me of something my dad (late) thought about little Chic's. Well they had a barrel of water (were talking ALONE time ago. He was young and.. duh there small like ducks so.. one my one.. he would watch them swim....right to the bottom. His mom was VERY unhappy I must say haha. Praise GOD!

 

[OzSpen]

Dave Hunt is currently a convinced Calvinist.

That's outrageously audacious of you Hammster to be so prideful as to say that Dave Hunt, who now is at home with the Lord, is a convinced Calvinist.

Dave Hunt was promoted to glory on April 5, 2013. He now knows what the Bible said is true, not that only Calvinism or only Arminianism is true.

Oz