LAW of God -- vs -- sinful nature's law of SIN and death

[Doveaman]

Absolutely. Further, the reason why we no longer need the law is that Christ's Spirit has killed the sin in us (that the law revealed). Temptations no longer can be unendured with no choice. Now we can endure temptations and resist them, because the carnal nature is mostly dead. However, we still have the ability to sin, but only if we CHOOSE to. But further, choosing sin can lead all the way back to perdition again.

"Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward. 36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:

37 “For yet a little while,
And He who is coming will come and will not tarry.
38 Now the just shall live by faith;
But if anyone draws back,
My soul has no pleasure in him.”

39 But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.

Yes, only those who endure to the end shall be saved.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Yes, only those who endure to the end shall be saved.

Yes, the more you resist, the easier it is next time.

 

[BobRyan]

I agree.

The law of Ten Commandments reveals the law of sin and death in human nature.

The Ten Commandments define what sin is.and what righteousness is.

The sinful nature is in fact the law of sin and death - at war with the Ten Commandments... and in fact exposed by them.

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
You typically cut out the texts that you cannot refute.

Actually, I cut out the texts that I already refuted,

"silly wabbit" - - you cannot refute scripture. Not even one text.

Actually, I cut out the texts that I already refuted, and then I refute the remainder.

I think that is what is called "a pipe dream".

 

[BobRyan]

There is no ‘10’ in 1 John 5:2-3, .

The text you are so reluctant to quote says this --

2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

Jeremiah knew that "God's Commandments" included the TEN Commandments when in Jeremiah 31;31-33 Jeremiah says that the NEW Covenant writes the "LAW of God on the heart and mind"

Paul knows in Eph 6:2 that the ONLY unit of LAW that satisfies his statement - is the TEN Commandments

 

[1stcenturylady]

The text you are so reluctant to quote says this --

2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

Jeremiah knew that "God's Commandments" included the TEN Commandments when in Jeremiah 31;31-33 Jeremiah says that the NEW Covenant writes the "LAW of God on the heart and mind"

Paul knows in Eph 6:2 that the ONLY unit of LAW that satisfies his statement - is the TEN Commandments

14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

 

[1stcenturylady]

The Ten Commandments define what sin is.and what righteousness is.

The sinful nature is in fact the law of sin and death - at war with the Ten Commandments... and in fact exposed by them.

Do you still have the sinful nature? If so, then, of course, you need the Ten Commandments.

But if you are filled with the Spirit, then you are dead to sin and you are not in the flesh. Acts 2:38, Romans 6:2, Romans 8:1-9

 

[1stcenturylady]

The Ten Commandments define what sin is.and what righteousness is.

The sinful nature is in fact the law of sin and death - at war with the Ten Commandments... and in fact exposed by them.

The Ten Commandments was our schoolmaster.

Galatians 3:23-25 King James Version (KJV)

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Romans 6:1-2 New King James Version (NKJV)

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

Our sinful flesh is the law of sin and death.

Romans 8:2 (NKJV)

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.

For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

 

[BobRyan]

The Ten Commandments was our schoolmaster.

True for the lost.

For the saved those Commandments are written on the heart and mind -- see Jeremiah 31:31-33
For the saved we do not "abolish the Law of God by our faith" rather we "establish the Law" Rom 3:31
for the saved "what matters is keeping the commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
And as James 2 says - the saved do not want to be a "transgressor of the law"
Because in 1 John 3:4 "sin IS transgression of the LAW"

For the saved - we have to meet temptation in the power of God. And if we do not - we will fall.

1 Cor 10
6 Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we would not crave evil things as they also craved. 7 Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written, “The people sat down to eat and drink, and stood up to play.” 8 Nor let us act immorally, as some of them did, and twenty-three thousand fell in one day. 9 Nor let us try the Lord, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the serpents. 10 Nor grumble, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the destroyer. 11 Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come. 12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall. 13 No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.

1 Cor 9
26 Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air; 27 but I buffet my body and make it my slave, lest after I have preached the gospel to others, I myself should be disqualified.

1 Cor 6
7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren.
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

Rom 11
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. 9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not commit murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.

 

[BobRyan]

Do you still have the sinful nature? If so, then, of course, you need the Ten Commandments.

A lot of people on this board need to read that statement and reflect on it. Because we all know that you do not lose your sinful nature at baptism.

 

[Doveaman]

The Ten Commandments define what sin is.and what righteousness is.

No, they do not.

The Ten Commandments do not define righteousness, they only make us aware of sin:

"Therefore no one will be declared righteous in His sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin." (Romans 3:20-21).

You are obviously contradicting the scriptures.

"Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, 'the righteous will live by faith.' And the law is not based on faith” (Galatians 3:8-17).

The sinful nature is in fact the law of sin and death - at war with the Ten Commandments

The sinful nature is at war with the Spirit, not the Ten Commandments. Why did you even highlight that part in red? You are obviously misquoting the scriptures again:

"For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law." (Galatians 5:17-18).

... and in fact exposed by them.

That's about all the Ten Commandments do, they expose sin through death.

The Ten Commandments exposes the sin that already exists in human nature by convicting us of sin and condemning us for sin:

"I had not known sin, except through the law…But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through what was good" -- (Romans 7:9-13).

"silly wabbit" - - you cannot refute scripture. Not even one text.

But I can refute the text messages you post online.

The text you are so reluctant to quote says this --

2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

Jeremiah knew that "God's Commandments" included the TEN Commandments when in Jeremiah 31;31-33 Jeremiah says that the NEW Covenant writes the "LAW of God on the heart and mind"

Paul knows in Eph 6:2 that the ONLY unit of LAW that satisfies his statement - is the TEN Commandments

You have no clue what Jeremiah or Paul knew.

There is no '10' in 1 John 5 or Jeremiah 31 or Ephesians 6 -- "Do not add to His words, or He will rebuke you and prove you a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

Honoring our parents does not require the 10 Commandments. Honoring our parents is a basic human instinct imparted to us by God at birth:

“For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature the things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts” (Romans 2:14-15).

For when Gentiles, who do not have the 10 commandments, do honor their parents out of love for their parents, they are showing love for their parents from their hearts, even though they do not have the 10 commandments.

We honor our parents out of love for our parents without relying on the 10 commandments, because we rely on the love of God: “And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love, and whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him.” -- (1 John 4:16-17).

We Christians live without the 10 Commandments just as the Gentiles live without the 10 Commandments. The difference is that the Gentiles are inspired by their natural instinct to love and respect their parents, but we Christians are inspired by God's divine Spirit to love and respect our parents.

 

[1stcenturylady]

A lot of people on this board need to read that statement and reflect on it. Because we all know that you do not lose your sinful nature at baptism.

That is true. If so, then I would have lost my sinful nature as an infant. Then I was baptized at 10 years old into the Adventist Church and learned the Ten Commandments, but still couldn't stop sinning, then I was baptized at 24 out of the Adventist Church, and still couldn't stop sinning. But then when I was 29 I received the baptism of the Holy Spirit with fire. It destroyed my sinful nature, and I was dead to sin. So then because I was now dead, I was buried in baptism for all the right reasons, because now it was finally a reality that I could stop sinning.

 

[1stcenturylady]

The Ten Commandments define what sin is.and what righteousness is.

The sinful nature is in fact the law of sin and death - at war with the Ten Commandments... and in fact exposed by them.

Right, so what is the cure? The baptism of the Holy Spirit. Through love we establish the law.

The law of the Spirit of life in Christ has freed me from committing sin in the flesh, IF we walk in the Spirit and start producing the fruit of the Spirit. The first fruit is love.

 

[BobRyan]

I agree.

The law of Ten Commandments reveals the law of sin and death in human nature.

The Ten Commandments define what sin is.and what righteousness is.

The sinful nature is in fact the law of sin and death - at war with the Ten Commandments... and in fact exposed by them.

No, they do not.
The Ten Commandments do not define righteousness, they only make us aware of sin:

A distinction without a difference.


The Ten Commandments define what sin is and what righteousness is ... The LAW of God, the Commandments of God.

We saw that here --

God's TEN Commandments are included in what the Bible calls the "Commandments of God"

(So then they are not the only parts of the OT that are included as the "Commandments of God" - but they are one of the laws included)

=============================

KEEP the Commandments - God's Ten Commandments are included as the "Commandments of God"


10 Commandments are –
“Commandments of God” Neh 10:29
“Law of God” Neh 10:29
“Word of God” Mark 7:13
“Commandment of God” Mark 7:6-13
NT “Scripture” James 2:8
NT “Law” – James 2:9-11
NT Commandments Eph 6:2, Rom 13:9, Romans 7:7-10


1John 2:
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.


John says -
Rev 22:
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.(KJV)

The teaching of Christ: Commandment of God = Word of God = "Moses said" in the case of the TEN Commandments.

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.


Exodus 20
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

John 14
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.


1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Rev 14:12
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

1 Cor 7:19 .. "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"

Eph 6:2 the 5th commandment "is the FIRST commandment WITH a promise" in that still valid - unit of TEN.

Matt 19 "if you would have eternal life KEEP the Commandments... Which ones?.." then comes Christ list FROM the Ten Commandments.

Romans 7 - quoting the Commandments - from the TEN
Romans 13 - from the TEN
James 2 - from the TEN.

And of course - under the NEW Covenant the "LAW of God written on heart and mind" - Jeremiah 31:31-33 and certainly Jeremiah knew about the TEN.

 

[1stcenturylady]

The Ten Commandments define what sin is.and what righteousness is.

The sinful nature is in fact the law of sin and death - at war with the Ten Commandments... and in fact exposed by them.



A distinction without a difference.


The Ten Commandments define what sin is and what righteousness is ... The LAW of God, the Commandments of God.

We saw that here --

God's TEN Commandments are included in what the Bible calls the "Commandments of God"

(So then they are not the only parts of the OT that are included as the "Commandments of God" - but they are one of the laws included)

=============================

KEEP the Commandments - God's Ten Commandments are included as the "Commandments of God"


10 Commandments are –
“Commandments of God” Neh 10:29
“Law of God” Neh 10:29
“Word of God” Mark 7:13
“Commandment of God” Mark 7:6-13
NT “Scripture” James 2:8
NT “Law” – James 2:9-11
NT Commandments Eph 6:2, Rom 13:9, Romans 7:7-10


1John 2:
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.


John says -
Rev 22:
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.(KJV)

The teaching of Christ: Commandment of God = Word of God = "Moses said" in the case of the TEN Commandments.

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.


Exodus 20
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

John 14
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.


1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Rev 14:12
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

1 Cor 7:19 .. "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"

Eph 6:2 the 5th commandment "is the FIRST commandment WITH a promise" in that still valid - unit of TEN.

Matt 19 "if you would have eternal life KEEP the Commandments... Which ones?.." then comes Christ list FROM the Ten Commandments.

Romans 7 - quoting the Commandments - from the TEN
Romans 13 - from the TEN
James 2 - from the TEN.

And of course - under the NEW Covenant the "LAW of God written on heart and mind" - Jeremiah 31:31-33 and certainly Jeremiah knew about the TEN.

I find it so sad that you hunt for every scripture on keeping the Commandments, and not one word about Jesus, nor his gift of the Holy Spirit who has killed the sin nature and made us new creatures in Christ. You post you don't believe it, so you never highlight anything to do with the Spirit, or being dead to sin. You know everything there is to know about the law, but are absolutely clueless to the grace of God, the POWER to not sin. I certainly didn't know anything about what grace meant when I was an Adventist, so no doubt you do either, as there has been no evidence that you do. Start learning about the gospel.

21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, 24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar—

The Ten Commandments is represented by Ishmael.

So he (Moses) was there (Mt. Sinai) with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

Isaac is faith in the Seed (Jesus) of Abraham, and grace.

 

[Doveaman]

The Ten Commandments define what sin is.and what righteousness is.

The sinful nature is in fact the law of sin and death - at war with the Ten Commandments... and in fact exposed by them.

A distinction without a difference.

The Ten Commandments define what sin is and what righteousness is ... The LAW of God, the Commandments of God.

We saw that here --

God's TEN Commandments are included in what the Bible calls the "Commandments of God"

(So then they are not the only parts of the OT that are included as the "Commandments of God" - but they are one of the laws included)

=============================

KEEP the Commandments - God's Ten Commandments are included as the "Commandments of God"


10 Commandments are –
“Commandments of God” Neh 10:29
“Law of God” Neh 10:29
“Word of God” Mark 7:13
“Commandment of God” Mark 7:6-13
NT “Scripture” James 2:8
NT “Law” – James 2:9-11
NT Commandments Eph 6:2, Rom 13:9, Romans 7:7-10

1John 2:
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

John says -
Rev 22:
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.(KJV)

The teaching of Christ: Commandment of God = Word of God = "Moses said" in the case of the TEN Commandments.

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Exodus 20
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

John 14
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Rev 14:12
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

1 Cor 7:19 .. "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"

Eph 6:2 the 5th commandment "is the FIRST commandment WITH a promise" in that still valid - unit of TEN.

Matt 19 "if you would have eternal life KEEP the Commandments... Which ones?.." then comes Christ list FROM the Ten Commandments.

Romans 7 - quoting the Commandments - from the TEN
Romans 13 - from the TEN
James 2 - from the TEN.

And of course - under the NEW Covenant the "LAW of God written on heart and mind" - Jeremiah 31:31-33 and certainly Jeremiah knew about the TEN.

There is still no '10' in any of those scriptures -- "Do not add to His words, or He will rebuke you and prove you a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

And copy-pasting old posts doesn't change the fact that you are contradicting the scriptures.

You say the law defines righteousness, but the scriptures say righteousness is not by the law, but by faith: "Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, 'the righteous will live by faith.' And the law is not based on faith” (Galatians 3:8-17).

You say the law defines sin, but the scriptures say the law helps us to recognize sin: "Indeed I had not known sin except through the law...But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through what was good." (Romans 7:7-13).

According to you, the law of 10 commandments defines righteousness and sin, but according to scriptures, the law of 10 commandments neither defines righteousness nor sin: "Therefore no one will be declared righteous in His sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin." (Romans 3:20-21).

The purpose of the law was to make us conscious of sin by helping us to recognize the sin existing in human nature: "Just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned—for before the law was given, sin was in the world." (Romans 5:12-13).

Sin existed in human nature before the 10 commandments were given, but when the law of commandments came, we were made conscious of sin through the condemnation of the law: "For apart from the law, sin is dead. Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death." (Romans 7:7-10).

Sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin had no power to condemn us until after the law was given: "For before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law." (Romans 5:13).

Sin is like a poisonous sting that results in death, but the poison of sin comes from the law: "The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law." (1 Corinthians 15:56).

Sin without the law is still a painful sting, but because there is no law it does not result in death: For the sinful nature lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the sinful nature; and they are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you wish. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law." (Galatians 5:17-18).

 

[BobRyan]

The Ten Commandments define what sin is.and what righteousness is.

The sinful nature is in fact the law of sin and death - at war with the Ten Commandments... and in fact exposed by them.



A distinction without a difference.


The Ten Commandments define what sin is and what righteousness is ... The LAW of God, the Commandments of God.

We saw that here --

God's TEN Commandments are included in what the Bible calls the "Commandments of God"

(So then they are not the only parts of the OT that are included as the "Commandments of God" - but they are one of the laws included)

=============================

KEEP the Commandments - God's Ten Commandments are included as the "Commandments of God"


10 Commandments are –
“Commandments of God” Neh 10:29
“Law of God” Neh 10:29
“Word of God” Mark 7:13
“Commandment of God” Mark 7:6-13
NT “Scripture” James 2:8
NT “Law” – James 2:9-11
NT Commandments Eph 6:2, Rom 13:9, Romans 7:7-10


1John 2:
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.


John says -
Rev 22:
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.(KJV)

The teaching of Christ: Commandment of God = Word of God = "Moses said" in the case of the TEN Commandments.

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.


Exodus 20
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

John 14
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.


1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Rev 14:12
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

1 Cor 7:19 .. "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"

Eph 6:2 the 5th commandment "is the FIRST commandment WITH a promise" in that still valid - unit of TEN.

Matt 19 "if you would have eternal life KEEP the Commandments... Which ones?.." then comes Christ list FROM the Ten Commandments.

Romans 7 - quoting the Commandments - from the TEN
Romans 13 - from the TEN
James 2 - from the TEN.

And of course - under the NEW Covenant the "LAW of God written on heart and mind" - Jeremiah 31:31-33 and certainly Jeremiah knew about the TEN.

There is still no '10' in any of those scriptures

Yes there is - as even your own pro-sunday scholars admit. (when BOTH sides see the same obvious Bible detail... well it just does not GET any easier than this!!).

Here Christ affirms the TEN Commandments - as a tiny example of one of the text quoted.

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Your argument against God's Ten Commandments - is an argument against the teaching that we find in Mark 7. Were we simply "not supposed to notice"???

-- "Do not add to His words, or He will rebuke you and prove you a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

your copy-pasting old posts doesn't change the fact that you are contradicting the scriptures.

Another short example from the texts you are ignoring in that post --

Eph 6:2 the 5th commandment "is the FIRST commandment WITH a promise" in that still valid - unit of TEN.

Irrefutably the TEN Commandments and we BOTH know it. IN fact your own pro-sunday scholars admit it as well.

Were we simply "not supposed to notice"???

 

[BobRyan]

According to you, the law of 10 commandments defines righteousness and sin,

According to Paul... according to scripture.

Romans 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
..
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

========================

Romans 2:26

• King James Version
  Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
  
• Young's Literal Translation
  If, therefore the uncircumcision the righteousness of the law may keep, shall not his uncircumcision for circumcision be reckoned?
• Romans 6:16
  New American Standard Bible
  Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

Romans 8:4

• King James Version
  That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
  
• Young's Literal Translation
  that the righteousness of the law may be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

 

[BobRyan]

The purpose of the law was to make us conscious of sin by helping us to recognize the sin existing in human nature: "Just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned—for before the law was given, sin was in the world." (Romans 5:12-13).

Sin existed in human nature before the 10 commandments were given, .

True. And mankind had always been conscious of sin - as we see starting early no just in Genesis 3 as the hid from God - due to sin. but also in Genesis 4 "SIN is crouching at your door - you must master it".

Sin existed... the LAW existed... consciousness of sin existed -- so says the earliest chapters in the Bible

 

[1stcenturylady]

According to Paul... according to scripture.

Romans 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
..
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

========================

Romans 2:26

• King James Version
  Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
  
• Young's Literal Translation
  If, therefore the uncircumcision the righteousness of the law may keep, shall not his uncircumcision for circumcision be reckoned?

No one is refuting that the law of God is holy. And it was needed as a schoolmaster when we ONLY had a sinful nature and needed to see our sin for what it was. However, that is no longer the case. How can you be so clueless as to why Jesus came. According to you we had the law, what more did we need? Well, we needed the power of Christ's Spirit in us to keep the laws of God through us. What difference would it make if the laws were written on stone, or on the hearts where our sinful nature existed? It was the sinful nature that had to be killed so we could be sons and daughters of the most High God. Without holiness no man shall see God. We now have the power to crucify the flesh daily and continuously walk in the Spirit, not fulfilling the lust of the flesh, thereby not under the law.

Bob, what does grace mean to you? By the sound of your posts, not much.