Date and age you left Christianity?

[Nihilist Virus]

We are similar in that respect. I did the same thing, I probably got the exact same scripted answers too. I left the church for that very reason, but I eventually came back. I still prefer to seek out the answers for myself rather then ask church teachers.

(This wasn't due to the internet, but specifically the way Christians answered questions. I didn't leave Christianity, I just left the church so I could see what was true.)

What issues did you have problems with and what solutions did you find?

 

[Sanoy]

What issues did you have problems with and what solutions did you find?

The biggest question I had was what happens to people that never heard of Christ. The answer I always got was "The gospel has been preached to everyone". That isn't true, not even close. In the local church I grew up in (a Methodist church if that matters) it wasn't okay to say "I don't know" or "I don't know, let me see if the Bible gives an answer". They always felt compelled to just shoot from the hip, and they all gave the same answer. That same question cuts into a similar question, "how can a person who loves what is good, but rejects a gospel preached poorly to him burn for eternity in hell."

I found my answer to that question in Romans 2:14 "For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them 16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.

Further I discovered that the nature of the lake of fire is not as clear as it is described in tradition. Annihilation is a valid and solid read of the Bible.

I had to search it all out myself, because the church is often stagnated into modes of tradition and comfort. In many cases they stick to a certain realm of teaching ignoring or leaving out whole sections of the Bible. You get the tower of babel and Noahs ark when you are a kid and when you are older you get sermons that Tony Robbins could do. The church I go to now is very different than the one I went to when I was young. We readily go through the OT, even the hard parts.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

The biggest question I had was what happens to people that never heard of Christ. The answer I always got was "The gospel has been preached to everyone". That isn't true, not even close. In the local church I grew up in (a Methodist church if that matters) it wasn't okay to say "I don't know" or "I don't know, let me see if the Bible gives an answer". They always felt compelled to just shoot from the hip, and they all gave the same answer. That same question cuts into a similar question, "how can a person who loves what is good, but rejects a gospel preached poorly to him burn for eternity in hell."

I found my answer to that question in Romans 2:14 "For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them 16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.

Further I discovered that the nature of the lake of fire is not as clear as it is described in tradition. Annihilation is a valid and solid read of the Bible.

I had to search it all out myself, because the church is often stagnated into modes of tradition and comfort. In many cases they stick to a certain realm of teaching ignoring or leaving out whole sections of the Bible. You get the tower of babel and Noahs ark when you are a kid and when you are older you get sermons that Tony Robbins could do. The church I go to now is very different than the one I went to when I was young. We readily go through the OT, even the hard parts.

I'm not sure what you found to be similar between us.

 

[Sanoy]

I'm not sure what you found to be similar between us.

I was referring to the way your pastor dodged your questions.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

I was referring to the way your pastor dodged your questions.

So... you didn't have any problems with the Old Testament, or you didn't start reading it until you were back in church? You acknowledge that there are "hard parts" but you don't go on from there or give a possible solution.

 

[Sanoy]

So... you didn't have any problems with the Old Testament, or you didn't start reading it until you were back in church? You acknowledge that there are "hard parts" but you don't go on from there or give a possible solution.

I read the whole bible before I left church. I started reading it again outside of the church.

I spent a long time describing to you what my main question was and the solution I found.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

I read the whole bible before I left church. I started reading it again outside of the church.

I spent a long time describing to you what my main question was and the solution I found.

Sorry, I'm just baffled that you made it through the entire OT and your main concern is a NT issue - salvation.

 

[Zoness]

I see atheism increasing slowly, too, but I think it's going to become much more politically relevant real quick. For Christianity, I predict a slow migration to the religious left rather than an exodus from the religion. I don't think I see a rise in the Pagan religions, though. It's weak on the socialization aspect, it's not relevant to most people, and I don't see average people having the patience to make it past the bunny stage.

(And regarding the OP, I was never Christian)

Maybe I should re-phrase; I think there a bit of an increase in terms of generally pagan concepts being accepted. You're right that its more poor phrasing on my part to imply there is some sort of explosive growth. Socialization is a bit of a pain, even on the internet in this day and age. Solitary is where its at and I am fine with that! Plus there's a lot of fluffy bunny stuff and I could write a whole book on that.

I do think America is becoming more accepting of pagans in recent time.

I prefer going to non denominational churches. What I meant by following rules from denominations, for example are dress codes, having to say your hail marries, go to confession once a week so you're good to go for the rest of the week etc. But yes there are rules to follow in order to grow in Jesus' Spirit, the written rules of God in the Bible.

Well there's a lot of social currency required even in non-denominational churches. For example, dressing up, holding similar interests and political convictions and the right social connections can matter quite a lot in those churches; especially with building social currency. Essential to your salvation? Probably not, but key to your survival and enjoyment of church? Yeah, I think it does matter quite a bit.

Though I am not a Christian anymore I still have a sort spot for liturgical churches. Even though I don't agree with her and am well of the bounds of a good Catholic, the Roman Catholic church has a fascinating body of doctrine and history that I could study the rest of the my life. Orthodox is similar and you can find this to lesser degrees in Anglican and Lutheran churches. Personally I prefer organized ritual to emotional spontaneous worship. That's a purely personal preference, though. To each their own.

 

[Chesterton]

Was the internet a factor by giving you access to information and like-minded people?

I have a theory that when the internet became user-friendly in the late 1990s and early 2000s there was a flood of Christians from all age groups who suddenly left the religion. But now, I suspect there is only a trickle of Christians from the young adult age group who are leaving. I think some of the surveys have suggested the decline of US Christianity is slowing. IDK... Of course asking a question isn't a scientific survey, but I'm curious anyway.

Every time I hear this kind of comment I ask what this information on the internet is, and I get no response. I'm starting to think that you actually want me to remain Christian, and want to keep this powerful de-conversion info secret from me. Either that or what this "information" really amounts to is just constant barrages of mockery and progaganda and lies which eventually wears you down. That's what they did to POW's during the Korean War, and where we get the word "brainwashing".

 

[Sanoy]

Sorry, I'm just baffled that you made it through the entire OT and your main concern is a NT issue - salvation.

My question concerned the Old and New testament. Christ came in ~4 BC, that leaves a lot of people not knowing Christ before then.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

My question concerned the Old and New testament. Christ came in ~4 BC, that leaves a lot of people not knowing Christ before then.

Lol, now you're dodging. Your assimilation is complete.

 

[cloudyday2]

My question concerned the Old and New testament. Christ came in ~4 BC, that leaves a lot of people not knowing Christ before then.

One of the traditions I heard was that John the Baptist meets these people after death and gives them the opportunity to accept or reject the gospel. That seems more equitable than hoping for people to be judged favorably by the law of their own conscience. Everybody is supposed to fail the judgment without the mercy provided through Jesus - right? IDK

 

[Silmarien]

My earliest religious memory is of some Mormons teaching me about heaven, and then fast forward to Sunday School with the Presbyterians, where I was immediately at open war with Genesis because of evolution. I was probably 10 or so? So mid-1990s, but it had nothing to do with the internet. It might have had something to do with dinosaurs, though.

Started veering back towards Christianity at about 22 and finally called off my rebellion at 30. (Well, mostly. Still at war with the patriarchy and the literalists.)

One of the traditions I heard was that John the Baptist meets these people after death and gives them the opportunity to accept or reject the gospel. That seems more equitable than hoping for people to be judged favorably by the law of their own conscience. Everybody is supposed to fail the judgment without the mercy provided through Jesus - right? IDK

There's also the Harrowing of Hell tradition, whereby Christ himself preached to and freed those who were already dead.

 

[Occams Barber]

I’ve never been a Christian (or anything else).

I know I was christened Anglican as a baby (I have the Certificate!) but beyond that my contact with Christianity is limited to births, deaths and marriages. I suspect that I may have had a little indoctrination during a brief stay, as a toddler, in a Children's Home, because I know the words to the ‘Lord’s Prayer’ and ‘All Things Bright and Beautiful’.

Growing up in Australia in the 50s and 60s, religion was rarely mentioned and people who were actively religious were regarded with some suspicion. From my experience this is still the case in this country. While the mainstream (Catholic, Anglican, Presbyterian, Methodist etc.) religious are tolerated, those who actively participate in the more ‘enthusiastic’ brands of Christianity are often seen as wild eyed fanatics to be avoided at all costs. In Australia, inviting your workmates to your church is not a socially accepted practice. Proselytising, particularly at work, is completely unacceptable.

When I first began to think about gods and the supernatural in my early teens, I could never understand what attracted people to religion and how they came to believe in what I saw as a nonexistent entity. Almost sixty years later, after exposure to all the arguments, nothing has changed.

I remain an unredeemed atheist with all the spirituality of a house brick.

OB

 

[Sanoy]

One of the traditions I heard was that John the Baptist meets these people after death and gives them the opportunity to accept or reject the gospel. That seems more equitable than hoping for people to be judged favorably by the law of their own conscience. Everybody is supposed to fail the judgment without the mercy provided through Jesus - right? IDK

I haven't heard that about John the Baptist. In the case of Romans 2, they do fail the judgement, but Romans 2 uses the key word Law written on their hearts. They are justified by faith just as we learn Abraham was in Romans 4. If we look at Romans 1, God is made known to all mankind through his invisible attributes. So when these people accept those invisible attributes and have that law written upon their hearts they are accepting God without name, and when they die mercy will be made available to them through Christ. Essentially when they accept Gods invisible attributes (Romans 1:19-20) they accept Jesus, even though they do not know Him by name. They are people who respond to Gods private revelation, and do not reject it or turn to themselves. What ultimately matters is how you respond to the revelation of God that you receive. There will be self proclaimed Christians who Jesus will say "I do not know you" and there will be people who never heard of Christ who he will say "I knew you".

That said one should not remain under the private revelation of Gods invisible attributes. For it is the full knowledge of Christ that strengthens and sustains one along the path.

 

[Sanoy]

Lol, now you're dodging. Your assimilation is complete.

I have no idea what you are talking about. I had hoped to have a conversation with you as a human being but I see now that is impossible for you.

 

[Cearbhall]

What was the date and your age when you left Christianity? I realize that it might have taken several years so you can give a range.

There was no single date in my case. It wasn't a conscious decision in the way that I suppose it is for some people. No one hurt or betrayed me or someone I cared about.

My beliefs shifted to such a degree that I no longer felt I could call myself Catholic. Eventually, I had to expand that to "Christian." That was at 15. At 16, I became absolutely positive that I wasn't just a Christian going through a crisis of faith.

 

[cloudyday2]

There was no single date in my case. It wasn't a conscious decision in the way that I suppose it is for some people. No one hurt or betrayed me or someone I cared about.

My beliefs shifted to such a degree that I no longer felt I could call myself Catholic. Eventually, I had to expand that to "Christian." That was at 15. At 16, I became absolutely positive that I wasn't just a Christian going through a crisis of faith.

Was the internet helpful by providing information or support from others?

 

[ToBeLoved]

I didn't actually leave Christianity entirely but I left a denomination I was in for 20 years.

It only took me about a month to decide leaving that denomination. It was a time of awakening. I realized what was happening against reality and many "Christian teachings" aren't really Christian but worldly or even heathen and I also noticed many errors, particularly contradictory teachings in the Bible.

It happened around June or July of 2012. I was 30 years old then. However, I'm still very much a Christian. I still believe in Christ, I simply don't assume everything written in the Bible is true anymore.

This time I actually use critical thinking to study the Bible instead of blind faith. It's almost like a scientific approach to study Christ.

There is nothing wrong with taking a 'thinking' approach to studying the Bible as you put it. However, be aware and notice the verses that talk about how one who is spiritual understands spiritual things and the world does not, because of the Holy Spirit's guidance and giving us spiritual understanding.

I would hate for you to miss out on what God has for you spiritually because you have taken this approach. IMHO, a combined approach is best. Not that you need to leave your critical thinking, but just know that spiritual matters are often spiritual and need spiritual assessing because they are not the way our natural mind thinks.

God bless you.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Have you considered the verses you supplied may not be referring those who left, but to those who are still within?

With billions of Christians I think we can find people of almost every kind in Christianity.

It's not any different than any other large, diverse group.