God's Sabbath rest is not a weekly seventh day rest

[listed]

Hebrews 4:9 Commentaries: So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

Thayer's Greek: 620. ἀπολείπω (apoleipó) -- 1. to leave, leave behind: one in some place, Titus 1:5 L T Tr WH; 2 Timothy 4:18, 20. Passive ἀπολείπεται it remains, is reserved: Hebrews 4:9; Hebrews 10:26; followed by the accusative and an infinitive, Hebrews 4:6.

Thanks. Which commentator did you take it from?

 

[Steve Petersen]

Thanks. Which commentator did you take it from?

If you click on the first link, it takes you to Biblehub which has Meyer's commentary on this passage.

 

[Doveaman]

No doubt there comes a point when it's good to walk away from a debate. But keep in mind that if you are speaking the truth and the person you are trying to correct doesn't accept it, it doesn't mean your time is wasted. Other people are reading.

I fully agree.

But you may find it a bit frustrating trying to correct others in these forums.

Even the apostle Paul couldn't correct many of his readers with his writings, especially those old covenant law keepers.

I think the best approach is to present your explanation of the scriptures and let the Holy Spirit do the correcting/convicting.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

But you may find it a bit frustrating trying to correct others in these forums.

The rules of the internet/ politics/ countries/ regions/ groups
are plummeting towards the one world summing up
and thus are
very very very very
different than
YHWH'S instructions.

Thus, there is little like YHWH'S people as shown all through the New Testament, Torah, Prophets, Psalms, // any Biblically holy description.

 

[Doveaman]

I will often stick around an push my point relentlessly for the very reason you mention but for some reason, on this one, the OP has shut down completely, calling everything an opinion

What do you mean "shut down"?

The OP has responded to almost every post in this thread. Maybe you haven't posted anything substantial worth responding to.

You disagree with the OP, but you are not explaining why.

and if we show him verses, it'll then just be, "that's your opinion on what the verse means."

Nope, that is not what the OP would do.

The OP would either accept your opinion on the verses or offer an alternative explanation on those same verses.

The problem is that you haven't offered any verses at all, just your unsupported opinions.

Even if the scripture is crystal clear like some introduced here already.

Scriptures can be crystal clear, but the explanation of those scriptures can be clearly flawed.

Anyone can quote clear scriptures, but not everyone can explain them.

 

[Doveaman]

Why did the author use the future tense then when he referred to that rest? 'There remains a rest...'
meaning it still isn't here.

From Myer's NT Commentary on Hebrews 4:9:

Hebrews 4:9. Deduction from Hebrews 4:7-8, and consequently return to the first half of Hebrews 4:6. “Thus still remaining, still awaiting its advent, is a Sabbath rest for the people of God,” inasmuch, namely,—what the author in reasoning with the Hebrews might presuppose as admitted,—as from David’s time down to the present no one had entered into the κατάπαυσις of God. As Sabbatic rest the author characterizes the rest of God, in adherence to the thought of Hebrews 4:4. As a type of the everlasting blessedness do the Rabbins also regard the Sabbath. Comp. e.g. Jalkut Rubeni, fol. 95. 4 : Dixerunt Israëlitae: Domine totius mundi, ostende nobis exemplar mundi futuri. Respondit ipsis Deus S. B.: illud exemplar est sabbatum. R. D. Kimchi et R. Salomo in Psalms 92.: Psalmus cantici in diem Sabbati, quod hic psalmus pertineat ad seculum futurum, quod totum sabbatum est et quies ad vitam aeternam. See Wetstein and Schöttgen ad loc.​

Well first of all, scripture does tells us we enter Gods rest presently:

Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. For we who have believed do enter that rest...There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His. -- (Heb 4:1-10).

"We who believe do enter God's rest",

and "he who has entered" God's rest",

and "has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His".

To enter God's rest is to cease from our works, which we already did.

We who believe through faith in Christ has already entered God's rest where we have already ceased from the physical works of our human nature (the fleshly works of sin), just as God ceased from the physical works of His creation.

Secondly, God's Sabbath rest is the salvation we have in Christ:

“Come to Me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest…and you will find rest for your souls.” -- (Matthew 11:28-29).

There is a present aspect of salvation and a future aspect of salvation.

We are already saved through faith in Christ, and we will be saved at our future resurrection from mortal to immortal.

It can, therefore, be said that we are already at rest in Christ through faith, and we will find eternal rest in Christ at the resurrection.

So there is some truth to your post.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Well first of all, scripture does tells us we enter Gods rest presently:

Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. For we who have believed do enter that rest...There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His. -- (Heb 4:1-10).

"We who believe do enter God's rest",

and "he who has entered" God's rest",

and "has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His".

To enter God's rest is to cease from our works, which we already did.

We who believe through faith in Christ has already entered God's rest where we have already ceased from the physical works of our human nature (the fleshly works of sin), just as God ceased from the physical works of His creation.

Secondly, God's Sabbath rest is the salvation we have in Christ:

“Come to Me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest…and you will find rest for your souls.” -- (Matthew 11:28-29).

There is a present aspect of salvation and a future aspect of salvation.

We are already saved through faith in Christ, and we will be saved at our future resurrection from mortal to immortal.

So it can, therefore, be said that we are already at rest in Christ through faith, and we will find eternal rest in Christ at the resurrection.

The 'rest' is used in more than one sense. It is the rest we have in Christ, and it is the rest the world will have during the Messianic age.

 

[Doveaman]

It's very clear to me the OP isn't open to discussion or the fact they could be wrong.

How did you arrive at that conclusion?

The OP has been in open discussion in this thread throughout its entire five pages.

 

[Kenny'sID]

What do you mean "shut down"?

Shut down to opposing views. Views that are clear. As in, I could put White right in front of you and you'd argue it was Black.

Nope, that is not what the OP would do.

That's what the OP did.

 

[Doveaman]

The context doesn't appear to support your conclusion. I don't see any reference to the Sabbath in Romans 14:4-6. .

Paul is referring to observing special days to the Lord in general. God does not require us to observe special days, including Sabbath days. But He does appreciate us setting aside time for Him. This is why Paul said:

He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. -- (Romans 14:4-6).

And you have left an important detail out of verse 6, which appears to tell us what Paul was really talking about. Here is the reference in its entirety:

Romans 14:4-6 (NKJV) "Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand. 5: One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6: He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks."

Paul appears to be talking about designated days for fasting. It seems some were judging others who did not fast on certain days. What I see Paul saying is it is up to the individual to decide which day he or she wants to designate for fasting.

Can you prove from the context that Paul was saying God no longer requires believers to keep the Sabbath day holy?

The first two verses of Romans 14 explains the context of what Paul is talking about, and it’s not a day of fasting:

“Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables.” -- (Romans 14:1-2).

Paul is addressing a dispute over whether or not to eat meat, a dispute over which foods should be eaten, and not a dispute over fasting, which is the complete opposite.

Paul in Romans 14 is addressing controversial issues regarding the Jewish law, issues concerning unclean foods and observing special days.

And how could every day be alike within the context of a sabbath day when God only sanctified the seventh day (Gen. 2:2-3)?

What right do we have to take the day God set apart as holy and say it makes no difference now? I don't see Paul saying that.

Just because something was sanctified as holy does not mean it is required forever:

The tabernacle shall be sanctified by My glory. And I will sanctify the tabernacle of the congregation, and the altar: I will sanctify also both Aaron and his sons, to minister to Me in the priest's office. -- (Exodus 29:43-44).

The tabernacle was sanctified, the alter was sanctified, Aron and his sons were sanctified, the seventh day was sanctified, but sanctification does not mean forever. Even the nation of Israel was sanctified as God's holy people, but not anymore.

 

[Doveaman]

Shut down to opposing views. Views that are clear. As in, I could put White right in front of you and you'd argue it was Black.

But you haven't offered any view at all. When you offer something substantial and I shut down, then you will have a point. So far you have only offered accusations and criticisms.

 

[Doveaman]

The 'rest' is used in more than one sense. It is the rest we have in Christ, and it is the rest the world will have during the Messianic age.

I agree.

 

[woobadooba]

The first two verses of Romans 14 explains the context of what Paul is talking about, and it’s not a day of fasting:

“Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables.” -- (Romans 14:1-2).

Paul is addressing a dispute over whether or not to eat meat, a dispute over which foods should be eaten, and not a dispute over fasting, which is the complete opposite.

Paul in Romans 14 is addressing controversial issues regarding the Jewish law, issues concerning unclean foods and observing special days.

I considered this. But what I see is the whole issue seems to have to do with eating, not sabbath days.

Paul appears to be addressing those who argue that people should only eat certain kinds of foods (v.v. 2-3), while also addressing those who think fasting should be designated for certain days (v.v. 4-6). That's what I see here.

I don't see any proof that Paul is saying the Sabbath is no longer applicable to Christians.

 

[BobRyan]

Why did the author use the future tense then when he referred to that rest? 'There remains a rest...'
meaning it still isn't here.

From Myer's NT Commentary on Hebrews 4:9:

Hebrews 4:9. Deduction from Hebrews 4:7-8, and consequently return to the first half of Hebrews 4:6. “Thus still remaining, still awaiting its advent, is a Sabbath rest for the people of God,” inasmuch, namely,—what the author in reasoning with the Hebrews might presuppose as admitted,—as from David’s time down to the present no one had entered into the κατάπαυσις of God. As Sabbatic rest the author characterizes the rest of God, in adherence to the thought of Hebrews 4:4. As a type of the everlasting blessedness do the Rabbins also regard the Sabbath. Comp. e.g. Jalkut Rubeni, fol. 95. 4 : Dixerunt Israëlitae: Domine totius mundi, ostende nobis exemplar mundi futuri. Respondit ipsis Deus S. B.: illud exemplar est sabbatum. R. D. Kimchi et R. Salomo in Psalms 92.: Psalmus cantici in diem Sabbati, quod hic psalmus pertineat ad seculum futurum, quod totum sabbatum est et quies ad vitam aeternam. See Wetstein and Schöttgen ad loc.​

Good point.

Indeed... "it remains" --- then we ask 'remains from what?" - and the text says the Sabbath rest remains as it was in the time of David - in Psalms 96. Remains is very different from "just now deleted" as I am we would all agree.

 

[BobRyan]

That's what I see here. I don't see any proof that Paul is saying the Sabbath is no longer applicable to Christians.

Also a good point.

 

[fromtheearth]

Interesting how a thread gets derailed. The "Haber-Bosch Process" only allows a cheaper solution and produces empty worthless food. Nitrogen is put in the soil when it rains. Organic matter puts nitrogen in the soil.

. The Haber process also allows the replacement of nitrogen lost when crops are removed from the soil, which prevents the nitrogen being replaced into the soil. Nitrogen is only replaced organically if the plants are left on the land.

And it is relevant to the comment made about resting the land in the 7th year, which is relevant to the laws of moses, which is what the thread is all about. Hardly derailed

 

[bugkiller]

I agree. Good post.

God did rest, or cease, from the work of creating, but He did not cease from all work.

Jesus, on the Sabbath day, said: "My Father is always at His work to this very day, and I, too, am working." -- (John 5:16-17).

When God ceased from the work of His physical creation, His attention was then focused on the work of Man's salvation, a work which Christ continues to do to this very day.

I tend to think of God's Sabbath rest as a transition from one form of work to another form of work. From physical work to spiritual work. From the work of physical creation to the work of Man’s salvation. God ceased from the physical but continued to work in the spiritual.

Likewise, when we enter God’s Sabbath rest we also make this same transition from physical work to spiritual work, just as God did. We permanently cease from the physical work of our human nature (the fleshly works of sin) while focusing our attention on the spiritual work of our salvation, where we work with God in working out our salvation:

Continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you both to will and to do according to His good purpose. -- (Philippians 2:12-13).

When we enter God's Sabbath rest we permanently cease from the physical so that we may permanently work in the spiritual:

For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our bodies to bear fruit to death. But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the letter. -- (Romans 7:5-6).

I can accept this. Well thought out and presented. Thanks.

bugkiller

 

[listed]

The context doesn't appear to support your conclusion. I don't see any reference to the Sabbath in Romans 14:4-6.

And you have left an important detail out of verse 6, which appears to tell us what Paul was really talking about. Here is the reference in its entirety:

Romans 14:4-6 (NKJV) "Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand. 5: One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6: He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks."

Paul appears to be talking about designated days for fasting. It seems some were judging others who did not fast on certain days. What I see Paul saying is it is up to the individual to decide which day he or she wants to designate for fasting.

Can you prove from the context that Paul was saying God no longer requires believers to keep the Sabbath day holy?

And how could every day be alike within the context of a sabbath day when God only sanctified the seventh day (Gen. 2:2-3)?

What right do we have to take the day God set apart as holy and say it makes no difference now? I don't see Paul saying that.

What days would a person be observing unto the Lord? Paul say "the." Wouldn't that mean a certain day instead of any day?

 

[Doveaman]

I can accept this. Well thought out and presented. Thanks.

bugkiller

Thanks.

 

[listed]

Having said that, if keeping the Sabbath day holy is required, and I go out and tell others to keep the command, but some pastor comes along and says, "Paul said it doesn’t matter anymore.” then who is the liar? The liar is the person who twists the Scriptures in order to support a tradition of men. c&p from a previous post. The above bolded words aren't mine.

Paul says keeping holy days doesn't matter. So indeed it is Paul who says it doesn't matter and not a 3d party. Since both Paul and some pastor say the same thing, who is the liar? The premise of keeping the sabbath is required is necessary to make some pastor a liar.

5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Does anyone here place a different importance on the 7th day than say the 3d day? Wouldn't that be esteeming 1 day above another? Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Does anyone here think of the 7th day in a special way (regard)?

Doesn't both of the verses i quoted give options? Personally I don't care what anyone does on any day. That isn't any of my business. I think much differently when another tries to order me around.