How did Tolkien's 'Lord of the Rings' help your faith journey?

[Widlast]

Tolkien was NOT a member of any secret society, he was a faithful Roman Catholic, and as such could not and would not participate in such things. He WAS a member of the Inklings, a group of friends that had a few beers and talked literature and history.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

Reading the Lord of the Rings inspired a desire for virtue in me.

That makes me want to read the book now.

 

[aiki]

This is what I refer to as a failure of creative imagination (which is God given).

And this is a rather weak - and somewhat insulting - deflection of my points.

 

[zippy2006]

And this is a rather weak - and somewhat insulting - deflection of my points.

Like his hero George MacDonald, and his friend, J.R.R. Tolkien, Lewis was not opposed to paganism, fantasy, or myth. To say that The Chronicles of Narnia could not have included Christian symbolism because they also included mythical elements is to utterly fail to understand C. S. Lewis. Lewis explicitly admitted that there was a great deal of Christian symbolism in Narnia.

To be honest, I don't even understand what the charge, "It's not Biblical," means. Isn't all literature outside of the Bible non-Biblical? Would you only accept a retelling of Biblical stories in literature?

 

[DeerGlow]

I don't want you to be anxious reading threads I've started either.

But thanks to all for your replies. I will read them more carefully later.
I borrowed a DVD from one of the few remaining DVD rental stores left in our city. Unfort. "Fellowship of the Ring" was unwatchable due to damaged disc it seems. I've watched an hour of "Two Towers". As I said before, I struggle with the genre. I wouldn't call it "enjoyable". "Intriguing" perhaps. To understand all that is going on. I will persevere though.

I have the hobbit and Lotr books, movies in regular, blu-ray, and extended/extended blu-ray if you need a copy. I watched them out of order because my parents watched one but bought all three and made me watch with them then I saw the first one.

 

[aiki]

Like his hero George MacDonald, and his friend, J.R.R. Tolkien, Lewis was not opposed to paganism, fantasy, or myth. To say that The Chronicles of Narnia could not have included Christian symbolism because they also included mythical elements is to utterly fail to understand C. S. Lewis. Lewis explicitly admitted that there was a great deal of Christian symbolism in Narnia.

But I haven't asserted that Lewis did not include Christian symbols/allegory in his Narnia stories. I said that in mixing those symbols with pagan creatures and thinking, he corrupts and weakens the Christian elements he has introduced into Narnia.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

That makes me want to read the book now.

In reading the books versus watching the movies, I think you'll see that the books have a less macabre tenor to the characters, situations and story details. Being that the books are Tolkien's original thoughts, you'll sense that they aren't driven by someone with expertise in the horror genre of movies, like Jackson is [the movie's director]. (Not that I didn't like how Jackson adapted it all, I definitely did...it was dynamic and entertaining, even if slightly gory, as well as deliberate in producing a more melancholy psychological effect.)

Anyway, the books have a feel closer to classic literature than they do an all-out brawl of spit and muscle.

 

[zippy2006]

But I haven't asserted that Lewis did not include Christian symbols/allegory in his Narnia stories. I said that in mixing those symbols with pagan creatures and thinking, he corrupts and weakens the Christian elements he has introduced into Narnia.

Although I disagree I understand your point.

 

[aiki]

To be honest, I don't even understand what the charge, "It's not Biblical," means. Isn't all literature outside of the Bible non-Biblical? Would you only accept a retelling of Biblical stories in literature?

If a person is going to hold up "The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe" as Christian allegory, it seems quite obvious to me that doing so invites an analysis of how in accord with Scripture, how biblical, it is.

 

[zippy2006]

If a person is going to hold up "The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe" as Christian allegory, it seems quite obvious to me that doing so invites an analysis of how in accord with Scripture, how biblical, it is.

But your analysis here is basically, "These elements of the story aren't in the Bible, therefore it is not a Christian story." And so we're back to my same question: Would you only accept a retelling of Biblical stories in literature? According to your criteria, the only thing that is Biblical is the Bible, and everything else is unBiblical.

More nuance would be required in an attempt to assess the "Christian-ness" of literature.

 

[AlexDTX]

For one, I don't think Faramir was ever portrayed as being like Tom Bombadil. He never had the Ring in his hand, so him being able to resist it is closer to Frodo initially being willing to relinquish it. I don't see him ever having real power over it. I would also very much not put him in the same category as Gandalf or Galadriel--for them, their greater power (and in Galadriel's case, former rebellion and desire to rule) really augmented the stakes. Their situations were extraordinary and that made the Ring more dangerous for them, not less.

I understand your point of view, and, I too would have liked a closer rendition to the book, but the book was not written in a cinematic style, so license was taken.

 

[aiki]

But your analysis here is basically, "These elements of the story aren't in the Bible, therefore it is not a Christian story."

No, my analysis was that mixing Christian and pagan elements in his Narnia stories diminishes Lewis's aim of creating a Christian allegory. I did remark that the Atonement of Christ at Calvary and the sacrifice of Aslan at the Stone Table were parallel.

And so we're back to my same question: Would you only accept a retelling of Biblical stories in literature? According to your criteria, the only thing that is Biblical is the Bible, and everything else is unBiblical.

No, this is your overstatement of my thinking on the retelling of biblical accounts. I didn't actually set out any specific criteria; I simply asked some questions and made some observations about the Narnia series.

Just so you know: I read the Narnia series as a child many, many times. I still hold a great deal of fondness for the series even now. In my opinion, as fantasy for children, the Narnia series is unexceeded. As Christian allegory, however, it runs pretty thin. I would not recommend teaching biblical truth from Lewis's stories of Narnia.

I don't see that a re-telling of the biblical accounts is necessary. The Bible does a perfectly good job of relating the events that it does.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

I would not recommend teaching biblical truth from Lewis's stories of Narnia.

How about Christian truth?

 

[GingerBeer]

How did Tolkien's 'Lord of the Rings' help your faith journey?
Either book or movie is fine.
I just started watching it for the first time. Fantasy is not my favourite genre but since I heard this story is Christian themed I plan to watch the lot. And maybe read the book too.

The story tells its readers that ordinary people matter and that goodness is about sharing power not exercising it over others. God is good because he shares his power with his people and he does not force his plans on them unwilling. This principle has implications for every aspect of theology. Tolkien's theology is completely unlike any theology that places power to force obedience at the pinnacle of God's attributes. When omnipotence is defined as power to achieve God's goals by means of his power and exercising that power means forcing creation to obey then power over others triumphs but when omnipotence is defined as God's infinite power to achieve what is good and goodness means letting creation freely choose what path to take and helping creatures who want to do good to achieve it then power is shared and freedom to be good triumphs.

 

[aiki]

How about Christian truth?

There is no such thing as Christian truth that is not also biblical.

 

[Kerensa]

Have you read the other books in the Narnia series? They migrate well away from classic orthodox Christianity. Are you aware that the lion that roars in Scripture is not Christ, but the devil? (1 Pe. 5:8) Does God work by way of magic? Does He require such a thing to accomplish His will? What of all the pagan creatures that fill the land of Narnia? Dryads, maenads, centaurs, vampires, witches - all these and more inhabit Narnia. Why a mixture of pagan mythology with biblical types? Is such a mixture really Christian? I see an allegory of sorts between the atoning sacrifice of Christ at Calvary and that of Aslan at the Stone Table but the parallel is seriously weakened and warped by the introduction of these other pagan elements into the story.

I'd love to be part of a discussion about the Narnia books, but perhaps we should start another thread for that?

 

[rockytopva]

I have read The Hobbit, Lord of the Rings, Simiralian, and Unfinished Tales. I have enjoyed these books. My first impression though, is that they can be incredibly dark.

 

[DeerGlow]

I'd love to be part of a discussion about the Narnia books, but perhaps we should start another thread for that?

I should make a Lord of the Rings thread in the book club sub-forum.

 

[Sistrin]

I took the opportunity to reread my post, and you are correct that it came across badly, for which I apologize. It was not my intention to insult. I'm afraid I just didn't have my tactfulness engaged.

Fair enough.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

I'd love to be part of a discussion about the Narnia books, but perhaps we should start another thread for that?

go for it. I don't mind at all.