FreeGrace2
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Telling you that your opinions is not an insult. It's the truth. Which you've been shown over and over.
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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Limited vs unlimited atonement?
- Thread starter Fish14
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More opinion with no scripture, because you have no scripture to support your man made doctrine that those who don't believe, have eternal life.
Complete nonsense.
The condition to have eternal life is believe.
Those who believe for a while, then no longer believe, are no longer believers.
Are you attempting to teach this Forum that someone who no longer believes, is still somehow a "believer'?
- Romans 6:23 does not say eternal life is a gift of God.
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23
You left out the part that says the wages of sin is death, which is found by reading the context and warning from Paul to Christians who live their life practicing the unrighteous deeds of sin, by presenting themselves as slaves to the flesh, to practice the works of the flesh.
16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?
Romans 6:16
You also left out that eternal life is "in Christ Jesus our Lord", which is crucial to understand, that we are to remain in Christ Jesus as a branch is to remain in the vine or wither and be cast into the fire and burned.
Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;...
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:2,6
Just because a person comes to be "in Him" for a while, doesn't necessarily mean they will remain in Him. We must remain in Him or wither and be cast into the fire and burned.
What is the outcome of a branch that is thrown into the fire and burned?
- Romans 11:29 doesn't say the gifts of God are irrevocable.
29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Romans 11:29
This verse doesn't say the gift of God is eternal life and is irrevocable.
This verse says the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable. Obviously if a person has the calling of repentance still available to them, as the context shows [unbelieving Jews], then they do not have eternal life.
28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
Romans 11:28-29
Though they are enemies of the Gospel, they still have the calling the repent and believe the Gospel.
But they don't have eternal life life.
If you believe unsaved Jews who still have the call to repent and believe the Gospel, somehow have eternal life, then please provide the scriptures that teach us "unsaved Jew" can have eternal life.
You however, have taken a "part' of one verse, and a part of another verse, while disregarding the rest of the verse and ignoring the surrounding context, to create a "Frankenstein" mix and match doctrine that is not found in the bible.
JLB
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FreeGrace2
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Once again, your opinion is wrong, because I do cite Scripture, which refutes your opinions.
You've never shown from Scripture that one who apostatizes loses salvation.
Or even that anyone CAN lose salvation. So your opinion is just that.
Yes, your opinions are that.
And since Paul described the gift of eternal life as a gift of God in Christ in Rom 6:23, and that God's gifts are irrevocable in Rom 11:29, eternal life is an irrevocable gift.
Jesus taught eternal security in John 10:28 by stating that those who RECEIVE eternal life will never perish.
So, to not perish is conditioned ONLY on RECEIVING eternal life.
They're apostates, but so what? Jesus promised that those who believe HAVE eternal life, in John 5:24, and that those same ones who have RECEIVED (have) eternal life will never perish in Jn 10:28.
No, that someone who has RECEIVED eternal life will never perish.
That is irrational. Unhinged even.
Look at the red letters and everyone will see that my statement is TRUE.
This analysis is totally flawed. I just highlighted the very words that "the gift of God is eternal life". I don't have to include "in Christ Jesus", because everyone else knows that eternal life is ONLY for those in Christ.
So leaving out those words changes nothing of what I claim.
See above, in order to understand your failed grasp of my claim.
Jesus promised that those who receive eternal life will never perish, and Paul wrote that those having believed (aorist) ARE marked IN HIM with a seal, the PROMISED Holy Spirit, who is a deposit GUARANTEEING OUR INHERITANCE for the DAY OF REDEMPTION, as God's POSSESSION. Eph 1:13,14
These 2 verses also refute your notions.
If these verses meant what you keep trying to force them to mean, then both Jesus and Paul have contradicted them.
But, thank God, it's only your flawed opinion of what Jesus meant in John 15.
Flawed conclusion, without any evidence from Scripture. Those who receive eternal life will never perish. Period.
Yes, that's exactly what Eph 1:13,14 mean, and says.
But since you disagree, please exegete those 2 verses to explain what they are teaching, if not eternal security.
"fire" is used for a variety of ways in Scripture. Only 1 way refers to the eternal death, or the lake of fire. Another way is for discipline, or simply God's wrath towards sin.
More delusion.
So, please how the phrase "and the calling" refutes my claim that God's gifts are irrevocable? You've never done that.
When combined with Rom 6:23, that's exactly what it means.
Yep. Both the call and the gifts of God are irrevocable. And eternal life is one of God's gifts. Paul specifically described 3 of God's gifts before he wrote 11:29.
Where does the context say anything about "call of repentance"?
I agree. But, IF they ever believed in the Messiah, they would HAVE RECEIVED the gift of eternal life and Jesus promised they would never perish. That's what "irrevocable" means in regard to the gift of eternal life.
Of course I don't believe that. That is nonsense.
You can call it whatever you wish, but it doesn't change the very fact that eternal life is a gift of God. Given ONLY to those who believe. And as a result of RECEIVING this gift, they will never perish.
And your view contradicts what Jesus promised.
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You don't post scripture, it's that simple.
You state your opinion and then tag your opinion with a scripture reference.
AS you can see, there is no scripture in this post of yours I quoted.
11 “Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:11-13
- lest they should believe and be saved.
Believe for a while = Saved for a while.
- who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.
Those who renounce Jesus Christ under persecution, and return to Judaism, no longer have any sacrifice for sin, since they no longer believe in Jesus Christ as their Savior, who takes away their sin.
Please show a scripture that teaches a person who has fallen away from grace, fallen away from the faith, or has departed from Jesus Christ, still has the same salvation as those who are faithful and believe.
I quote Ephesians all the time.
You however, do not.
You state your opinion, and tag your opinion with Eph 1:13.
Write out what Eph 1:13 says, and refer to the language of the actual scripture to make your point.
If you are to lazy to write out the scripture and reference the actual words of scripture and it's context, then you must be hiding from the truth of the scriptures, which exposes your unbiblical theory.
JLB
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No scripture, just man's theory.
If you have a point, then please use scripture to make your point.
11 “Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:11-13
- lest they should believe and be saved.
Believe for a while = Saved for a while.
- who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.
Those who renounce Jesus Christ under persecution, and return to Judaism, no longer have any sacrifice for sin, since they no longer believe in Jesus Christ as their Savior, who takes away their sin.
Please show a scripture that teaches a person who has fallen away from grace, fallen away from the faith, or has departed from Jesus Christ, still has the same salvation as those who are faithful and believe.
JLB
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FreeGrace2
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Apparently you're unaware that this thread is about the scope of Christ's death, not eternal security.
I'm tired of refuting your views. You've been shown. It's on you to accept the truth. It's there, and quite clearly.
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FreeGrace2
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I said this:
"Where is the biblical evidence that one who has been sealed, saved, marked, can be:
un-marked
un-sealed
un-saved?"
The problem is that my request was not met.
The Bible specifically mentions being marked, sealed, and saved. If salvation could be lost, then there would be specific verses on being:
un-marked
un-sealed
un-saved.
All you've got is opinion and assumption.
If salvation could be lost, there would be verses about being un-marked, un-sealed, and un-saved.
Where is the verse that says "keep believing in order to keep saved?"
Verse. Not opinion.
"Where is the biblical evidence that one who has been sealed, saved, marked, can be:
un-marked
un-sealed
un-saved?"
The problem is that my request was not met.
The Bible specifically mentions being marked, sealed, and saved. If salvation could be lost, then there would be specific verses on being:
un-marked
un-sealed
un-saved.
All you've got is opinion and assumption.
Yep. Once again, nothing but opinion.
If salvation could be lost, there would be verses about being un-marked, un-sealed, and un-saved.
You've been directly challenged to make your own point. So if salvation can be lost, where are the verses about being un-marked, un-sealed, and un-saved?
You keep charging me with a "man-made theory", but this is what a man-made theory looks like.
Where is the verse that says "keep believing in order to keep saved?"
Verse. Not opinion.
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No scripture here.
Where did you learn this "teaching" from?
Most people are willing to use scripture, when discussing what they believe.
Now more than ever, there are false doctrines circulating among the Churches, so we should measure everything according to scripture.
Those who mislead God's people, will not do well on the Day of Judgement.
Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 1 Timothy 4:1
JLB
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FreeGrace2
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I said this:
"Where is the biblical evidence that one who has been sealed, saved, marked, can be:
un-marked
un-sealed
un-saved?"
The problem is that my request was not met.
The Bible specifically mentions being marked, sealed, and saved. If salvation could be lost, then there would be specific verses on being:
un-marked
un-sealed
un-saved.
All you've got is opinion and assumption.
Yep. Once again, nothing but opinion.
Scripture refutes your views.
Jesus, Paul and Peter specifically taught eternal security.
Jesus said those who believe have eternal life in John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
Jesus said those He gives (they receive) eternal life will never perish in John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
Paul described eternal life as a gift of God in Rom 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Then Paul said that God's gifts are irrevocable in Rom 11:29 - for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see clearly that the gift of eternal life is irrevocable.
Paul also said that those "having believed" (aorist tense) are marked IN HIM with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit which GUARANTEES our inheritance for the day of redemption in Eph 1:13,14 - 13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
Peter said we have been born again of imperishable seed in 1 Pet 1:23 - For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.
So, continue your false charge that I have no Scripture, but only opinion. Unless you're color-blind. I've provided 7 verses that spell out eternal security.
To your zero verses that say salvation can be lost.
These verses in plain language teach eternal security.
If my understanding of them is wrong, then just explain by exegesis what they are actually teaching instead of eternal security.
I'll get the popcorn. This should be interesting.
But, more likely, I'll be eating the popcorn without any exegesis from you.
"Where is the biblical evidence that one who has been sealed, saved, marked, can be:
un-marked
un-sealed
un-saved?"
The problem is that my request was not met.
The Bible specifically mentions being marked, sealed, and saved. If salvation could be lost, then there would be specific verses on being:
un-marked
un-sealed
un-saved.
All you've got is opinion and assumption.
Yep. Once again, nothing but opinion.
How come you've never been able to find any Scriptures that say anything close to what you claim?
Your views have been measured according to Scripture, and found WANTING.
Scripture refutes your views.
You're sure going to find out.
Yep. The demons would like everyone to think the way to heaven is works.
Jesus, Paul and Peter specifically taught eternal security.
Jesus said those who believe have eternal life in John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
Jesus said those He gives (they receive) eternal life will never perish in John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
Paul described eternal life as a gift of God in Rom 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Then Paul said that God's gifts are irrevocable in Rom 11:29 - for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see clearly that the gift of eternal life is irrevocable.
Paul also said that those "having believed" (aorist tense) are marked IN HIM with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit which GUARANTEES our inheritance for the day of redemption in Eph 1:13,14 - 13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
Peter said we have been born again of imperishable seed in 1 Pet 1:23 - For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.
So, continue your false charge that I have no Scripture, but only opinion. Unless you're color-blind. I've provided 7 verses that spell out eternal security.
To your zero verses that say salvation can be lost.
These verses in plain language teach eternal security.
If my understanding of them is wrong, then just explain by exegesis what they are actually teaching instead of eternal security.
I'll get the popcorn. This should be interesting.
But, more likely, I'll be eating the popcorn without any exegesis from you.
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Yes, those who believe have eternal life.
Those who believe for a while then return to unbelieving, are no longer believers, since they do not believe anymore.
A simple read of John 5 clears up this misinterpretation.
24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
...for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29
Jesus -
- those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
Paul -
- eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
- those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2;6-8
Here is who will have eternal life:
- eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Paul
- those who have done good, to the resurrection of life. Jesus
JLB
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FreeGrace2
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Actually, it's much better than just that.
This is what Jesus said about those who have been given eternal life:
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. John 10:28
So what? Jesus promises that those who receive eternal life will never perish.
It is your misinterpretation to claim that one who has been given eternal life can perish.
Please stop rejecting the promise of Jesus, that those who receive eternal life will never perish.
It is your misinterpretation of these verses
You've already been shown that there are NO HUMANS who have or can fulfill thesae verses.
Because Paul then wrote these verses in Romans 3, which refute your misinterpretation:
9 What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin.
10 As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one;
11 there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God.
20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile,
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.
Your view of Rom 2:6-8 doesn't have a leg to stand on.
No, for Paul was clear about the fact that NO ONE WILL BE DECLARED RIGHTEOUS BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW (Rom 3:20).
Your failure to keep reading ALL the context is why you keep misinterpreting Rom 2:6-8.
Just pulling a few verses out of context and trying to make a doctrine leads to misinterpretation every time.
Plus, ignoring the promise of Jesus about those who have been given eternal life never perishing also sinks your opinions.
What John 10:28 means is that one who believes in Christ is given at that moment the irrevocable gift of eternal life, and from receiving that gift, will never perish.
That is eternal security. No one, including yourself, has shown otherwise.
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Here are those Christians who will receive eternal life:
God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Romans 2:6-7
God will render to each one according to their deeds:
according to their deeds.
If you choose to reject God's word then that is your choice.
- It's up to each Christian, to choose to live their life, according to the Spirit, or according to the flesh.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?
Romans 6:12-16
Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?
The wages of sin is death.
We will either be a slave to sin, or a slave to God, and walk in His righteousness.
Those who choose to become a slave to God to obey Him, and bear fruit unto holiness, will in the end receive everlasting life.
22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:22-23
- having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.
God's gift to us is eternal life, don't throw it away by living for sin, in which you become a slave to the sin in your flesh.
Those who practice the works of the flesh will not inherit the kingdom of God.
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5;19-21
READ WHAT THE SCRIPTURE SO PLAINLY SAYS:
- that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
- WILL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD.
Not rewards, but the kingdom of God itself.
Jesus showed us what that phrase means.
31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Matthew 25:31-34
- ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Those who will not inherit the kingdom of God, will hear these words, on that Day:
41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: Matthew 25:41
- Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
JLB
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FreeGrace2
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2 problems with your claim.
First, Paul made very clear that all humans are sinners, under sin, and have come short of the glory of God. Rom 3:9, 23
He also noted that NO ONE will be justified by observing the Law, per Rom 3:20.
"Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin."
Yet, we all will agree that "observing the law" is tantamount to "patient continuance in doing good". Therefore, your assessment of Rom 2:6-8 is refuted by all of what Paul wrote. Ignoring context leads to failure, as you have done.
Second, Jesus was very clear about how one possesses eternal life, and WHEN they do in John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
So, those who believe HAVE (means to possess, or receive) eternal life. That means when they FIRST BELIEVED. Not at the end of one's life, as you've a verse to try to prove.
Then, Jesus promised that those He gives eternal life (RECEIVE) will never perish, in Jn 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
Can you show me where Jesus said anything about "continuance in doing good" in His promise in Jn 10:28? Of course you can't.
The WHOLE POINT of receiving eternal life is that one will never perish.
It's all resting on Him. He saves, and He keeps. Because He has promised to.
Of course He does. But not for gaining or losing eternal life, as you presume.
Which is what you've done repeatedly.
Paul also wrote Rom 11:29, that God's gifts are irrevocable. "for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable." The immediate context does NOT support the notion (presumption) that 11:29 only refers to some (failure to identify) gifts only to Israel.
You may peddle your works based unbiblical salvation system elsewhere.
Correct, but certainly not the way your view thinks it is.
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Paul writing to the Church in Rome warn those Christians with these words:
God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God. Romans 2:6-11
Each person whether Jew of Gentile will be Judged according to their deeds.
- God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8
- Here are the Christians who will inherit eternal life:
- Here are the Christians who will not inherit eternal life: but will experience God's wrath.
Paul wrote this letter to the Church at Rome.
There is no partiality with God, He will Judge each one according to there deeds, whether Jew or Gentile.
If you are a Christian and have the Holy Spirit, in which you produce the righteous holy fruit of the Spirit, as a bond-slave of Jesus Christ, then in the end you will be given everlasting life.
If you are a Christian and have the Spirit, but choose to walk after the sinful desires of the flesh, in which you obey the unrighteous cravings of the flesh, rather than the righteous desires of the Spirit within, then you will receive the wages for a life spent on gratifying the deeds of the flesh, which is God's wrath; eternal death.
- 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:22-23
- 15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Romans 6:15-16
- There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1
- 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Romans 8:5-6
- 12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13
- 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21
JLB
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FreeGrace2
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This has already been refuted, from Scripture.
Paul was clear that NO ONE receives eternal life from "continuance in doing good".
That's just a works based salvation, just like the Pharisees who rejected Jesus Christ as Messiah.
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Your opinion is all you have and it will not save you from your man made doctrine, when you stand before the Lord on that Day.
You will have to explain to God why He said these words to the Church.
- God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8
- Here are the Christians who will inherit eternal life:
- Here are the Christians who will not inherit eternal life: but will experience God's wrath.
Paul wrote this letter to the Church at Rome.
There is no partiality with God, He will Judge each one according to there deeds, whether Jew or Gentile.
If you are a Christian and have the Holy Spirit, in which you produce the righteous holy fruit of the Spirit, as a bond-slave of Jesus Christ, then in the end you will be given everlasting life.
If you are a Christian and have the Spirit, but choose to walk after the sinful desires of the flesh, in which you obey the unrighteous cravings of the flesh, rather than the righteous desires of the Spirit within, then you will receive the wages for a life spent on gratifying the deeds of the flesh, which is God's wrath; eternal death.
- 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:22-23
- 15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Romans 6:15-16
- There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1
- 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Romans 8:5-6
- 12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13
- 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21
JLB
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God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8
- Here are the Christians who will inherit eternal life:
WE who have the new born again nature of Jesus Christ, that has been empowered by the Holy Spirit, certainly have the ability and the choice to live our lives according to the desires of the Spirit within, rather than the sinful cravings of the flesh.
Those who overcome the sinful deeds of the flesh, and walk according to the Spirit and bear fruit unto holiness will receive everlasting life.
For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:13
22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:22-23
- having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.
A slave obeys his Master, and does what his Master says.
If you are a slave to the sin in your flesh, and obey it's lust's whereby you are disobedient to your Lord who dwells within, then in the end you will reap the wages of your sinful life which is death.
If you become a slave to God and obey His righteousness that springs forth from within, you will bear fruit that is holy, and in the end you will receive everlasting life.
- having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.
God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8
- eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
- but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
JLB
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FreeGrace2
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This is beyond funny. It's clear you're not going to accept Jesus' promise of eternal security in John 10:28, regardless of the FACT. That is sad.
I have always supported what Jesus Himself taught.
Actually, you're going to have to explain you never believed what Jesus promised in John 10:28.
Those who don't cherry pick verses OUT OF CONTEXT keep reading the REST of what Paul wrote:
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin. Rom 3:20
No one will be declared righteous by works of the law, or receive eternal life by "continuance in doing good", which is basically doing the works of the law.
So your theology is completely flawed by Pharisee thinking. Good luck with that.
And we know what Jesus thought of their theology in John 5:
39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me,
40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.
No one receives eternal life based on continuance in doing good. That's works.
We receive eternal life on the basis of believing in the Savior for salvation.
Correct. Everyone, believer and unbeliever alike will be judged according to their deeds. But deeds ARE NOT the basis for salvation.
Every believer is given the Holy Spirit (Gal 3:2,5). But believers are guilty of grieving (Eph 4:30) and quenching (1 Thess 5:19) the Holy Spirit.
So, again, your theology is based on works, regardless of who produces it.
That isn't possible for these reasons.
In John 5:24 Jesus said those who believe "right now", or "currently" -
1. have eternal life. It's given when they believe
2. will NOT come into judgment. That's from believing now, not continue to believe out into the future
3. have passed from death to life.
So, one who has received eternal life CANNOT pass back into death.
If so, please explain how the status of eternal life can spiritually die? That simply ignores the plain meaning of words.
Eternal life cannot die. Your theology claims it can. Your theology is apart from the Bible. Whatever theology it is, it is NOT Christian theology.
But, go ahead and explain what Jesus was promising in John 10:28 and the result of receiving eternal life.
"I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand."
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