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Jesus' commandments - opposed to His Fathers Commandments? - Really?

Are Jesus' Commandments opposed to God's Ten Commandments?

  • No Jesus taught in perfect harmony with the Father and the Ten Commandments

  • Jesus came to delete/oppose God's Ten Commandments

  • Jesus taught us to edit the Ten Commandments replacing some but not others

  • Jesus' commandments are based on Love - God's Commandments are not and are ended

  • I don't know - I have not given this much thought so far.


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1stcenturylady

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1 cor 6 and 1 Cor 3 talks about not sinning against the body - as more and more animal products become diseased (even clean animals these days) it puts us at more and more risk - and is less honoring of God to ignore the damage we subject our bodies to -- so He tells us to avoid it at the end of time because of the deteriorating conditions in nature.

So even though Paul specifically said it wasn't about food that he was talking about, you want to call food, sin.
 
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BobRyan

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So even though Paul specifically said it wasn't about food that he was talking about, you want to call food, sin.

Rebellion against the Word of God is always sin. Paul did not say "I am not talking about food - you can never sin against your body by eating what scripture forbids" in 1Cor 6 or 1 Cor 3 --- any more than James 2 says "I am not talking about taking God's name in vain of course - that would be just fine". I think we both know this to be true.
 
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Bob S

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1 cor 6 and 1 Cor 3 talks about not sinning against the body - as more and more animal products become diseased (even clean animals these days) it puts us at more and more risk - and is less honoring of God to ignore the damage we subject our bodies to -- so He tells us to avoid it at the end of time because of the deteriorating conditions in nature.
I guess Jesus must have sinned against His body and I don't know what God was thinking when He gave meat to His children. Oh, now I remember, eating meat has something to do with animal passion. Now we certainly do not want any of that. Those disgusting animals, why did God make them so passionate?
 
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1stcenturylady

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Rebellion against the Word of God is always sin. Paul did not say "I am not talking about food" in 1Cor 6 or 1 Cor 3 --- any more than James 2 says "I am not talking about taking God's name in vain of course - that would be just fine". I think we both know this to be true.

Paul absolutely clarified that food was for the stomach and stomach for food but both would be destroyed. It isn't permanent. But sexual immorality with a demon possessed temple prostitute is making them one flesh with the Holy Spirit.

When I read God's word, I want to know what He means. You are trying to twist it to say the emphasis is opposite of what it says. Do you really believe that honors God's word?
 
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1stcenturylady

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I guess Jesus must have sinned against His body and I don't know what God was thinking when He gave meat to His children. Oh, now I remember, eating meat has something to do with animal passion. Now we certainly do not want any of that. Those disgusting animals, why did God make them so passionate?

Bobby, you are getting so silly! Must be because you live in paradise that you are so giddy! LOL
 
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Bob S

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Bobby, you are getting so silly! Must be because you live in paradise that you are so giddy! LOL
Not paradise just hog heaven. I keep preachin that we have to have a little humor in life. That is why God made people like Mark Twain.
 
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BobRyan

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When I read God's word, I want to know what He means. You are trying to twist it to say the emphasis is opposite of what it says.

Not in real life - in real life scripture condemns "sins against the body" -- not just one of them.
In real life scripture draws a direct connection between the LAWS given by God - and health.

And specifically in this thread - it is JESUS speaking those commands according to Hebrews 8:6-10 - even the commands to not eat diseased meat. And it is Jesus saying that this results in physical health.
 
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1stcenturylady

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Not in real life - in real life scripture condemns "sins against the body" -- not just one of them.
In real life scripture draws a direct connection between the LAWS given by God - and health.

And specifically in this thread - it is JESUS speaking those commands according to Hebrews 8:6-10 - even the commands to not eat diseased meat. And it is Jesus saying that this results in physical health.


Hebrews 8:6-10 is not in any way bringing the clean vs. unclean meat laws into the New Covenant, BECAUSE unclean meat represented Gentiles, and God is showing us that there is neither Jew nor Greek, etc. God only gave these laws to the Jews when he separated them from the rest of the world. But now the gospel is to the whole world.

Just as God told Noah that everything that moves is good for food in Genesis 9,

3 Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. I have given you all things, even as the green herbs

and Paul spoke to both the Colossians 2:

So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. 18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.

20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— 21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” 22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.

and Timothy

and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For EVERY creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; 5 for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

And the Corinthians:

All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. 13 Foods for the stomach and the stomach for foods, but God will destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for sexual immorality but for the Lord


Notice he says but all things are not helpful. So if you know meat to be diseased, then that is not helpful so don't eat it, BUT if you do IT IS NOT A SIN!

In other words we are not under that law, as it was not from the beginning. It was not a moral law. It was ONLY for the Jews to show separation unto Himself, but that separation has been removed!

Do you understand yet, that no one is advocating eating rotten meat! We are saying that IF we did, there is no longer a law against God if you happened to. God has declared what was unclean to now be clean. IT IS WRITTEN.
 
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BobRyan

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Hebrews 8:6-10 is not in any way bringing the clean vs. unclean meat laws into the New Covenant

Until you read it.

"I will write My LAW on their heart and mind" is the NEW Covenant quoted in Hebrews 8.

The command in Lev 11 to not eat diseased meat - even if it was a clean animal has everything to do with "health" as even the most atheist or pagan health professionals will admit - so it is not just Christians that admit to the benefit of following the command to not eat diseased meat.
 
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BobRyan

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Just as God told Noah that everything that moves is good for food in Genesis 9,

3 Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. I have given you all things, even as the green herbs

God told Noah to take in the clean animals by 7's and the unclean by 2's. Eating even ONE of the unclean -- instant extinction.

This is again "the easy part" that we all can see.

"These are the creatures which you may eat from all the animals that are on the earth." and that list includes the fact that we are not to eat diseased flesh even if it is from a clean animal.
 
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1stcenturylady

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God told Noah to take in the clean animals by 7's and the unclean by 2's. Eating even ONE of the unclean -- instant extinction.

This is again "the easy part" that we all can see.

"These are the creatures which you may eat from all the animals that are on the earth." and that list includes the fact that we are not to eat diseased flesh even if it is from a clean animal.

The 7 clean were so they would have enough for sacrifice, and that's what is written. You are trying to add to scripture.

The point is Leviticus 11 as a law no longer applies to us. It is helpful, yes, as is all scripture. But to a Jew under the old covenant is was a SIN, To a Christian, it is no longer a SIN. Except to a SDA or Messianic. It would be a sin in the eyes of God for you to eat healthy pork, because you couldn't do it with faith.
 
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BobRyan

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and Paul spoke to both the Colossians 2:
why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— 21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” 22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men?

Col 2 is condemning the tradition and commandments of men... not the Word of God.

An key not-so-subtle detail we do not miss when reading that chapter.

and Timothy

and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For EVERY creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; 5 for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

It is only that food which is APPROVED by the Word of God that is ok to eat. The word of God does not approve of eating diseased meat.

Here again "stating the obvious" from Lev 11.. But we do get push-back at times - even on the "obvious"


Do you understand yet, that no one is advocating eating rotten meat!


The word of God in Lev 11 condemns eating diseased meat - animals even if a clean animal that is diseased is not to be eaten according to Lev 11.

This is a glaringly obvious "health" issue - every reader will instantly know that.

We are saying that IF we did, there is no longer a law

"no longer a law"???

"Do we then make VOID the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW of God" Rom 3:31



God has declared what was unclean to now be clean. IT IS WRITTEN.

No he has not.
 
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BobRyan

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The 7 clean were so they would have enough for sacrifice, and that's what is written.

Not true since immediately after the flood they were eating meat -- eating even one of the unclean would be "instant extinction". Provision was made for having enough clean animals to eat - without extinction.

Here again - an obvious detail from the text itself.

The point is Leviticus 11 as a law no longer applies to us. It is helpful, yes, as is all scripture.

Paul says it does apply because the Christian faith does not make void the Law of God. Bible details matter.

It is Christ who gave that Law - as Hebrews 8:6-10 and Christ says "if you Love Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15

in Christ,

Bob
 
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1stcenturylady

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Col 2 is condemning the tradition and commandments of men... not the Word of God.

An key not-so-subtle detail we do not miss when reading that chapter.

and Timothy

and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For EVERY creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; 5 for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

It is only that food which is APPROVED by the Word of God that is ok to eat. The word of God does not approve of eating diseased meat.

Here again "stating the obvious" from Lev 11.. But we do get push-back at times - even on the "obvious"




The word of God in Lev 11 condemns eating diseased meat - animals even if a clean animal that is diseased is not to be eaten according to Lev 11.

This is a glaringly obvious "health" issue - every reader will instantly know that.



"no longer a law"???

"Do we then make VOID the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW of God" Rom 3:31





No he has not.

Bob, rest assured I am not going to eat diseased meat. But neither am I going to eat locusts which are "clean."
 
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1stcenturylady

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Col 2 is condemning the tradition and commandments of men... not the Word of God.

An key not-so-subtle detail we do not miss when reading that chapter.

and Timothy

and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For EVERY creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; 5 for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

It is only that food which is APPROVED by the Word of God that is ok to eat. The word of God does not approve of eating diseased meat.

Here again "stating the obvious" from Lev 11.. But we do get push-back at times - even on the "obvious"




The word of God in Lev 11 condemns eating diseased meat - animals even if a clean animal that is diseased is not to be eaten according to Lev 11.

This is a glaringly obvious "health" issue - every reader will instantly know that.



"no longer a law"???

"Do we then make VOID the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW of God" Rom 3:31





No he has not.

We establish the law by no longer condemning Gentiles. We establish the law by obeying the teachings of Christ's apostles in our New Covenant, because they have been appointed to teach us this New Covenant of ours. We establish the law by NOT obeying the laws on sacrifices, because we RECOGNIZE the significance of Christ's death.

What you don't recognize is that Jesus is our Sabbath rest, and the gospel has now gone to us "unclean" Gentiles.
 
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1stcenturylady

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Not true since immediately after the flood they were eating meat -- eating even one of the unclean would be "instant extinction". Provision was made for having enough clean animals to eat - without extinction.

Here again - an obvious detail from the text itself.



Paul says it does apply because the Christian faith does not make void the Law of God. Bible details matter.

It is Christ who gave that Law - as Hebrews 8:6-10 and Christ says "if you Love Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15

in Christ,

Bob

What did they eat on the ark?
 
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1stcenturylady

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Not true since immediately after the flood they were eating meat -- eating even one of the unclean would be "instant extinction". Provision was made for having enough clean animals to eat - without extinction.

Here again - an obvious detail from the text itself.



Paul says it does apply because the Christian faith does not make void the Law of God. Bible details matter.

It is Christ who gave that Law - as Hebrews 8:6-10 and Christ says "if you Love Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15

in Christ,

Bob

They were on the ark a long time, and babies would have been born. So not a problem about extinction. Rabbits and rodents bare a lot and in a short amount of time. And seeing as the animals were all vegetarian before the flood, they would have been healthy.
 
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BobRyan

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They were on the ark a long time, and babies would have been born. So not a problem about extinction. Rabbits and rodents bare a lot and in a short amount of time. And seeing as the animals were all vegetarian before the flood, they would have been healthy.

8 people and 2 of each kind on the ark -- and what comes off the ark is not ten times what went in.

Clearly the unclean animals were not going in - in sufficient numbers to "consume" if "by two's".

and the clean animals were -- they went in by 7's.

What is more "Clean" and "unclean" are only explained to Moses' reader in Lev 11 where they are informed that one group is for food and the other is not. They have no other option - that is the only definition of it that they are given for the Genesis 7 and 8 references to "clean" and "unclean".

Incredibly obvious.

All readers can see it.

All readers can easily see this in the text.

Christ does nothing to delete His Word spoken in Lev 11.
 
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