Is Love Really the Greatest?

[spockrates]

IMO Love caused Him to hang on a cross, not faith, not hope.
In the shortest verse, "Jesus wept"..... why did He weep? Because He felt their sadness and pain, even knowing the end result, He loved. Love keeps no record of wrongs, "it" always hopes. What is the "it", well it is love. Love never fails. Where hope fails, and our faith fails, Love does not.

Yeah, no? I mean, we can fail to have faith, but when we don't fail to have faith in God, does such a faith fail us? Also, we can fail to have love, but when we don't fail to have love for God, it doesn't fail us!

So my thought: just as Love doesn't fail us, so too Faith doesnt fail us, but we can fail them. What do you think, Solomons Porch?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Faith like the Apostles had, faith just as big as a mustard seed, is enough to do miracles and move mountains and heal diseases and cast out demons.

Hope, < shrugs > how much hope is needed ? What does it do ?

But Love, Agape Love, our Father's Love He has for us,
love like that

is always willing, even IN PEOPLE , to die for others. And more importantly ,
to
give others in LIFE whatever they need, especially brethren, but not restricted to them.

Every day we see people in need. What good does it do them if we believe and
tell them go and be warm,
and close the door in their face ?

If we have love like they did in ACTS, EPHESIANS, PHILIPPIANS, etc....
If we have love that is God's love, always,

we help them with whatever God has put in our care.

 

[W2L]

Yeah, yeah! Like Paul said:

Romans 8:24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have?

So I suppose we won't hope for anything if in heaven we have it all! Perhaps there's little hope of Hope being greater, then.

But what about Faith? Will we stop having faith in God when we get to heaven?

Faith is the substance of things hoped for. Once we have eternal life with God, we will not hope for anything more. Yet love is still there.

 

[spockrates]

if not for the Lords grace, i couldnt stand let alone walk. His love sustains me when others forsake me. My doubts and fears also, they fade back into the darkness where they came, as i put my life in His hands.

And is putting your life in His hands also an act of faith? If I said, "l've got your back," and you trusted me, wouldn't this be an example of your putting faith in me?

 

[W2L]

Paul said that miracles and prophecies will fail, but love will abide forever.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I'm thinking, then I need something more convincing for me to be certain Love is the greatest.

First, believe because God said it.
Second, remember love is not emotion nor feeling.
Third, like W2L posted, in heaven love continues without measure, forever !
Fourth, faith in heaven might not even be needed - per se - when we live every day in our FATHER'S HOUSE, will we ever doubt (heaven forbid!) everything is perfect ?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

..... If I said, "l've got your back," and you trusted me, wouldn't this be an example of your putting faith in me?

Yes, and it would be a sin too.
Remember God says if we trust / have faith / in the strength of horses and military, if we trust ourselves to accomplish God's Salvation,
then we have already failed.

 

[spockrates]

Faith is the substance of things hoped for. Once we have eternal life with God, we will not hope for anything more. Yet love is still there.

Please explain what the word substance in that context means. For I have no idea.

 

[W2L]

And is putting your life in His hands also an act of faith? If I said, "l've got your back," and you trusted me, wouldn't this be an example of your putting faith in me?

I suppose its an act of faith. I feel the Lords love in times of need. He sustains me

 

[spockrates]

Yes, and it would be a sin too.
Remember God says if we trust / have faith / in the strength of horses and military, if we trust ourselves to accomplish God's Salvation,
then we have already failed.

Does that mean I shouldn't trust a thing you say, since you're not God? Hmmm

 

[spockrates]

I suppose its an act of faith. I feel the Lords love in times of need. He sustains me

Yes, I think you must be right! It's likely both Love and Faith. Thanks for talking it through with me.

So I'm not yet convince Faith is lesser than Love, though it seems true Hope is lesser, now.

 

[W2L]

Please explain what the word substance in that context means. For I have no idea.

It means what its supposed to mean, i guess. I looked at a greek interlinear bible but it wasn't helpful. You need to ask others what it means.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Does that mean I shouldn't trust a thing you say, since you're not God? Hmmm

NOW YOU'RE STARTING TO GET IT ! YES ! GOOD !

Just like the APOSTLES SAID - do not trust men. Do not even trust us , IF we bring you any other message than the GOSPEL brought once for all.

As God says - if you trust in men (flesh), I (the Creator) curse you.
If you trust ME (the Creator) I (the Creator) bless you.

Remember soberly, serious warning, most all mankind, billions of souls,

are condemned because they trust something, (anything), besides God.

 

[SolomonVII]

1 Corinthians 13:13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

So don't get me wrong! I know Paul is correct. Love is greater than Faith and Hope. But...

I'm not sure why, and would like to know. Thought it might be fun for me to take up the defense of Faith and Hope against Love and see how far I can get making the case that they are better than Love.

I'm pretty sure I'll loose, but hope to learn why Love is greater in the process. Anyone want to join the discussion and talk about why Love is greater?

Imagine a world of faith without love. Everybody believes to the core that God is God and Jesus is Jesus, and the law is the law, etc. etc.
Thou shalt not kill and thou shalt not covet etc would potentially all be followed to the tee, but only really by rote. You wouldn't abuse the people in your life, but otherwise your relation to people would be like the relationship between a lizard and her egg. It would be like two computers kissing. Love without faith on the other hand, would still be love, even if the grounds for loving would be obscure. Even those who do not have faith in God, have a backdoor into the Godhead, because God is love.
You wouldn't abuse those you love not because of the law, but because you love them, and whatsoever you did to them you do to yourself. Such is the ways of compassion and empathy.

I suppose a world without hope, but with love, would be two lovers huddled together in hell. It is not the greatest scenario to be sure, being pitchforked and all for eternity, but it does mitigate hell nevertheless.
I am not sure what the world of hope without love might look like... maybe a single's bar?

 

[W2L]

Yes, I think you must be right! It's likely both Love and Faith.

So that leaves us with me not yet knowing why Love is greater than Faith, but I think it probable Hope is lesser, since it seems to stay in the grave when Faith and Love follow us to heaven.

We will have no need for faith in heaven, seeing how we will not hope for anything. Love abides forever.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Please explain what the word substance in that context means. For I have no idea.

This might help , God willing:

... ... ...
"Let us remember again that we are dealing here not with promises but with facts. The promises of God are revealed to us by His Spirit that we may lay hold of them; but facts are facts and they remain facts whether we believe them or not. If we do not believe the facts of the Cross they still remain as real as ever, but they are valueless to us. It does not need faith to make these things real in themselves, but faith can ‘substantiate’ them and make them real in our experience.

Even if something is a very real fact to our senses, if it contradicts the truth of God’s Word, we must regard it as the Devil’s lie, not because it is not a fact but because God has stated a greater fact before which the other must ultimately yield. A skillful liar lies not only in word but in gesture and deed; he can as easily pass a bad coin as tell an untruth. The Devil is a skillful liar, and we cannot expect him to stop at words in his lying. He will resort to lying signs and feelings and experiences in his attempts to shake us from our faith in God’s Word. Let me make it clear that I do not deny the reality of the ‘flesh.’ Indeed we shall have a good deal more to say about this further on. But I am speaking here of our being moved from a revealed position in Christ. As soon as we have accepted our death with Christ as a fact, Satan will do his best to demonstrate convincingly by the evidence of our day-to-day experience that we are not dead at all but very much alive. So we must choose. Will we believe Satan’s lie or God’s truth? Are we going to be governed by appearances or by what God says?

So, whether I feel it or not, I am dead with Christ. How can I be sure? Because Christ has died; and since “one died for all, therefore all died” (2 Cor. 5:14). Whether my experience proves it or seems to disprove it, the fact remains unchanged. While I stand upon that fact Satan cannot prevail against me. Remember that his attack is always upon our assurance. If he can get us to doubt God’s Word, then his object is secured and he has us in his power; but if we rest unshaken in the assurance of God’s stated fact, assured that He cannot do injustice to His work or His Word, then it does not matter what tactics Satan adopts. We walk by faith, not by appearance” (2 Cor. 5:7, mg). " ... ...

From a study on Faith and/or Hebrews.

 

[Galatea]

My thought is that I'm not convinced, since I personally don't have any experience of loving God without also having faith and hope in Him. So I'm not sure that's a good reason for me personally to believe Love is greater than Faith and Hope.

Also, it seems to me someone might have little love for God but put faith in Him simply out of guilt and fear of judgement. For that person, Faith would exist apart from Love. But does this make Faith greater?

I'm thinking, then I need something more convincing for me to be certain Love is the greatest. You might have what I need. For you said, "God is love." Would you also say God isn't Faith or Hope?

I think you are blessed for not having doubts. I even doubted God's love at one time in my life. Like the prodigal son, he was foolish and doubted his Father loved him, and thought he might have to beg to be his father's servant. But his father loved him all along, even when the son thought maybe he didn't.

Yes, the Bible says God is love, not faith and not hope.

Also, "Perfect love casteth out fear."

God's love for us is perfect, no selfishness in it, as well as being complete. Perfect in both senses. Never failing, always forgiving.

It is love for us that caused Him to come and die for us.

Romans 5:8 "But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."

I think what I am clumsily getting at here is this: God has no faith or hope in us. But He loves us with an all consuming, unconditional, perfect love.

Love is greater, because God is love.

We have hope and faith, and our love is a mere reflection of His own. Like our love is moonshine while His love is sunshine.

So, since God has no faith or hope, but does have love- love is greater. Grace is a variation on the word love, we are saved by His grace, His unmerited favor, through our paltry faith.

I don't know if this makes sense or not.

 

[Galatea]

Sorry for the delay. Got pulled away. Sorry for your loss. I suppose that from the way you describe her she is right now seeing God.

Thank you, I believe she is.

 

[spockrates]

It means what its supposed to mean, i guess. I looked at a greek interlinear bible but it wasn't helpful. You need to ask others what it means.

No problem. We'll come back to it, later if we figure it out and find it useful.

 

[spockrates]

NOW YOU'RE STARTING TO GET IT ! YES ! GOOD !

Just like the APOSTLES SAID - do not trust men. Do not even trust us , IF we bring you any other message than the GOSPEL brought once for all.

As God says - if you trust in men (flesh), I (the Creator) curse you.
If you trust ME (the Creator) I (the Creator) bless you.

Remember soberly, serious warning, most all mankind, billions of souls,

are condemned because they trust something, (anything), besides God.

But if I shouldn't trust anything you say, then why do you say anything?