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Is Love Really the Greatest?

spockrates

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"Yes", like the many blessing Jesus speaks in the sermon on the mount in Matthew.
ALL of them are all together in anyone of God's children. Not one here, a different one over ther... etc

Same as God's Set Apart Word (HOLY) - every word is truth.
Whenever anyone claims blessings or knowledge of one Scripture,
yet denies other Scripture or does violence to other Scripture ,
that is not in harmony with any of God's Word then, nor His Purpose or Plan in Jesus.

Man does not live by bread alone, but by EVERY WORD that proceeds from the mouth of God -- ALL of HIS WORD is TRUTH.

That is a sure and certain test of any message, even if deliverd by an angel or by b.g., if it differs/or opposes/ (as messages frequently do) from God's Word, it is not truth.

That every word is true, I know. What every true word means, I admit I don't know. So the need for discussions like these, I think. :)
 
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spockrates

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Because, we are human. Poor old Job was hopeless, yet he said he knew his redeemer lives.

It is a paradox, I know. But a person could doubt the existence of God, doubt His love, doubt His goodness- and then pray and ask and KNOW God forgives these thoughts, these momentary flashes of atheism that assault our minds and hearts.

And we can come to Him and tell Him and we know He will not cast us out.

I suppose I'm and odd ball, for I cannot remember a time when I doubted God's existence or love. I sometimes have doubts in the Bible, or in certain Christian doctrines, or in my ability to figure out exactly how God is going to work everything out, but for some reason not in Him or His motives.

Not trying to boast. Just trying to be open. I have many flaws, like giving into temptations too easily. Just don't have that particular doubt. Do you think I'm strange?
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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That every word is true, I know. What every true word means, I admit I don't know. So the need for discussions like these, I think. :)
I agree with discussion for the truth, seeking the truth.
That's very difficult here, or on any internet forum open to all the false opinions and viewpoints of the enemy/ of the world/ or of many religions.

i.e. too much not truth 'here'..... when possible , find good trusted faithful tested tried and true sources (usually older sources).
I have met many Christians , and even unbelievers who are still seeking the truth, who won't even visit an online forum, because of too much deception and arguing and false rabbit trails without signs showing what's true and what's not.
for a good library resource, tested proven true to Scripture for many decades material, pm if you want. Shalom! and keep seeking the truth at all costs! Test, Test, Test always in continual prayer to God for HIS understanding (granted freely to all those who seek Him in Jesus)...
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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QUOTE="spockrates, post: 71199829, member: 289597"]I suppose I'm and odd ball, for I cannot remember a time when I doubted God's existence or love. I sometimes have doubts in the Bible, or in certain Christian doctrines, or in my ability to figure out exactly how God is going to work everything out, but for some reason not in Him or His motives.

Not trying to boast. Just trying to be open. I have many flaws, like giving into temptations too easily. Just don't have that particular doubt. Do you think I'm strange?
[/QUOTE
yes. (set apart from the whole world, by God!)
VERY GOOD !
 
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Galatea

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I suppose I'm and odd ball, for I cannot remember a time when I doubted God's existence or love. I sometimes have doubts in the Bible, or in certain Christian doctrines, or in my ability to figure out exactly how God is going to work everything out, but for some reason not in Him or His motives.

Not trying to boast. Just trying to be open. I have many flaws, like giving into temptations too easily. Just don't have that particular doubt. Do you think I'm strange?
No, Satan attacks people differently. Sometimes with temptations to commit overt sin, sometimes with doubts.

I think it probably depends on how a person is constituted how temptations to sin are presented.
 
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spockrates

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I agree with discussion for the truth, seeking the truth.
That's very difficult here, or on any internet forum open to all the false opinions and viewpoints of the enemy/ of the world/ or of many religions.

i.e. too much not truth 'here'..... when possible , find good trusted faithful tested tried and true sources (usually older sources).
I have met many Christians , and even unbelievers who are still seeking the truth, who won't even visit an online forum, because of too much deception and arguing and false rabbit trails without signs showing what's true and what's not.
for a good library resource, tested proven true to Scripture for many decades material, pm if you want. Shalom! and keep seeking the truth at all costs! Test, Test, Test always in continual prayer to God for HIS understanding (granted freely to all those who seek Him in Jesus)...
Thanks. Peace to you, too! :)
 
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spockrates

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No, Satan attacks people differently. Sometimes with temptations to commit overt sin, sometimes with doubts.

I think it probably depends on how a person is constituted how temptations to sin are presented.

I think you're right. I mean, when things get really bad, I think I'm to blame, not God. Or if I'm not to blame, I think God is letting me suffer for my own good, because the suffering will make me a better person. These thoughts, then seem to me to keep intact my trust in God (faith), my expectation that it's for some good purpose (hope) and my affection for the One whose doing all this for my good (love).

I mean, I'm not a good person, and you're probably a much better Christian than me. But my experience is that I never have one (love) without the other two (faith and hope). But I guess that's not the same for you?
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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QUOTE="spockrates, post: 71199869, member: 289597"]I think you're right. I mean, when things get really bad, I think I'm to blame, not God. Or if I'm not to blame, I think God is letting me suffer for my own good, because the suffering will make me a better person. These thoughts, then seem to me to keep intact my trust in God (faith), my expectation that it's for some good purpose (hope) and my affection for the One whose doing all this for my good (love).

I mean, I'm not a good person, and you're probably a much better Christian than me. But my experience is that I never have one without the other two. But I guess that's not the same for you?
[/QUOTE

No, I'm not a much better Christian than you, or than anyone else (except we are all much better Christians than the actors are, but that's always been true - gold is better than fake gold)....

Jesus did not come nor did He find any good people.
He came and called who His Father told Him to call.
He came to find the lost sheep of Israel.
He came to seek and to save "unrighteous" people. (everyone is unrighteous, btw, but He did not come to seek nor to save those who think they are okay).

Continuing , when things go bad, you are not to blame - things have been bad for thousands of years - Jesus did not come to tell us we are to blame !
That is a ploy often used by popular or powerful religious leaders in any religion - get people to blame themselves, so they don't see the truth in the deception/ hypocrisy of the popular and powerful religious leaders in any religion....

Things are very bad on earth, everywhere. If someone gets saved it is SURPRISE! Salvation Comes! GOD WITH MAN ! Still a mystery, a challenge, and refused by all the world.

God provides Salvation, His Way. Truth. Jesus. By His Blood. To sick people.

Seeking Him is very rewarding, but necessarily comes with much painful persecution.
 
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Galatea

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I think you're right. I mean, when things get really bad, I think I'm to blame, not God. Or if I'm not to blame, I think God is letting me suffer for my own good, because the suffering will make me a better person. These thoughts, then seem to me to keep intact my trust in God (faith), my expectation that it's for some good purpose (hope) and my affection for the One whose doing all this for my good (love).

I mean, I'm not a good person, and you're probably a much better Christian than me. But my experience is that I never have one (love) without the other two (faith and hope). But I guess that's not the same for you?
Oh, don't presume that I am a better Christian than you, not at all. I don't do things I ought and commit sins of ommission daily.

I'm also not very good about witnessing, I always tend to get tangled when telling someone about the hope that is in Christ.

My youngest sister died suddenly in 2009, at the age of 27. I went through a time of questioning why God let her die instead of myself. I don't think I doubted His existence, but I doubted His judgment. I thought He made an error, because she really was a very good Christian. "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God" described her perfectly.

But, God is good and God is love, so He forgave me for doubting His wisdom at that bad time.
 
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Ygrene Imref

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Because, we are human. Poor old Job was hopeless, yet he said he knew his redeemer lives.

It is a paradox, I know. But a person could doubt the existence of God, doubt His love, doubt His goodness- and then pray and ask and KNOW God forgives these thoughts, these momentary flashes of atheism that assault our minds and hearts.

And we can come to Him and tell Him and we know He will not cast us out.

Knowing God exists, and not believing (a portion or all of) Him is one of the worst situation you can be in, I think. It may be hard to understand how that is possible, but I was there once.
 
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Ygrene Imref

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I think you're right. I mean, when things get really bad, I think I'm to blame, not God. Or if I'm not to blame, I think God is letting me suffer for my own good, because the suffering will make me a better person. These thoughts, then seem to me to keep intact my trust in God (faith), my expectation that it's for some good purpose (hope) and my affection for the One whose doing all this for my good (love).

I mean, I'm not a good person, and you're probably a much better Christian than me. But my experience is that I never have one without the other two. But I guess that's not the same for you?

No, I'm not a much better Christian than you, or than anyone else (except we are all much better Christians than the actors are, but that's always been true - gold is better than fake gold)....

Even impure real gold is better than the shines fool's gold.

Jesus did not come nor did He find any good people.
He came and called who His Father told Him to call.
He came to find the lost sheep of Israel.
He came to seek and to save "unrighteous" people. (everyone is unrighteous, btw, but He did not come to seek nor to save those who think they are okay).

:oldthumbsup:

Continuing , when things go bad, you are not to blame - things have been bad for thousands of years - Jesus did not come to tell us we are to blame !
That is a ploy often used by popular or powerful religious leaders in any religion - get people to blame themselves, so they don't see the truth in the deception/ hypocrisy of the popular and powerful religious leaders in any religion....

Absolutely. And, our spiritual enemies/satans exploit that often - especially for the purposes of getting people in cycles.

Things are very bad on earth, everywhere. If someone gets saved it is SURPRISE! Salvation Comes! GOD WITH MAN ! Still a mystery, a challenge, and refused by all the world.

Sometimes, you forget how incredible it is for anyone to come to know God in this world - then, and now. Whether it was risking being fed to animals, being burned at the stake, or even losing your livelihood and friends/family - the peoe who choose to make that genuine move are confronted with a lot of challenges.

God provides Salvation, His Way. Truth. Jesus. By His Blood. To sick people.

A spiritual transfusion of sorts.

Seeking Him is very rewarding, but necessarily comes with much painful persecution.

Part of that persecution is a contrite/conscious-striken heart (Psalms 51:17.)
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Part of that persecution is a contrite/conscious-striken heart (Psalms 51:17.)
I don't see this as persecution at all : this is what we do, or have.
Conviction is good in this sense in Psalms - a very good, cleansing convicting in conscience, great devastating sorrow by which God directs our steps often to repentance from sin.

Persecution(painful, actual pain often, physical pain from being beaten)
is the attacks by society/ attacks by other people physically, legally, socially, mentally and even spiritual attacks and curses toward everyone who seeks to be true.

Yes, this is all good :
Psalm 51:11-19King James Version (KJV)
Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.

Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.

Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.

O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise.

For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.

The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion: build thou the walls of Jerusalem.

Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar.

King James Version (KJV)
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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I had a choice long ago to put / have/ faith in God's Word, in Jesus, in God Himself a long, long time ago.
The faith is a gift, yes, and I asked for it fervently in prayer, completely and totally willing to do whatever God wanted, or maybe more important no matter what God wanted to do to or with me, even kill me.
The faith was and remains and is for me one choice:who to trust, who to rely on, who to serve, for all time in this life and for eternity --- without ever any chance nor choice to change ,
not as if choosing every day to have faith or not to have faith,
not as if trusting God today, then tomorrow maybe,
not as if okay God, I'll have faith and do what you say today, and tomorrow let me know what to do then I'll choose again whether to do it - no -
one choice, one time, to always willingly and joyously and faithfully BE HIS, for all eternity, to trust HIM for all eternity, all the time, every day, without EVER, no NEVER wanting a chance to make a different choice,
NEVER wanting a chance to choose to sin,
NEVER wanting a chance to choose WHETHER OR NOT TO OBEY GOD ---
I am His, since then, forever,
and never even considering wanting to look anywhere else,
never even considering returning to egypt (this world's ways),
even unto death - through every day, though all life ,
through ever torture , beating, imprisonment, (all expected, many happening),
and even to death, no hesitation!

As God grants His Grace, His Purpose and His Healing Salvation from sin,
in and through and by JESUS MESSIAH SAVIOR KING HEALER SHEPHERD COMFORTER !
Amein ! :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) x 100 million gazzillion googleplexes

Course, love is better still ! YEEHAH! HALLELUYAH !
 
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Solomons Porch

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IMO Love caused Him to hang on a cross, not faith, not hope.
In the shortest verse, "Jesus wept"..... why did He weep? Because He felt their sadness and pain, even knowing the end result, He loved. Love keeps no record of wrongs, "it" always hopes. What is the "it", well it is love. Love never fails. Where hope fails, and our faith fails, Love does not.
 
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if not for the Lords grace, i couldnt stand let alone walk. His love sustains me when others forsake me. My doubts and fears also, they fade back into the darkness where they came, as i put my life in His hands.
 
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spockrates

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Oh, don't presume that I am a better Christian than you, not at all. I don't do things I ought and commit sins of ommission daily.

I'm also not very good about witnessing, I always tend to get tangled when telling someone about the hope that is in Christ.

My youngest sister died suddenly in 2009, at the age of 27. I went through a time of questioning why God let her die instead of myself. I don't think I doubted His existence, but I doubted His judgment. I thought He made an error, because she really was a very good Christian. "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God" described her perfectly.

But, God is good and God is love, so He forgave me for doubting His wisdom at that bad time.

Sorry for the delay. Got pulled away. Sorry for your loss. I suppose that from the way you describe her she is right now seeing God. :)
 
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spockrates

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But, God is good and God is love, so He forgave me for doubting His wisdom at that bad time.

My thought is that I'm not convinced, since I personally don't have any experience of loving God without also having faith and hope in Him. So I'm not sure that's a good reason for me personally to believe Love is greater than Faith and Hope.

Also, it seems to me someone might have little love for God but put faith in Him simply out of guilt and fear of judgement. For that person, Faith would exist apart from Love. But does this make Faith greater?

I'm thinking, then I need something more convincing for me to be certain Love is the greatest. You might have what I need. For you said, "God is love." Would you also say God isn't Faith or Hope?
 
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spockrates

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Hope and faith seem like things that will only last for a short time, i.e. until they are realized and manifested. Love however is forever.
Yeah, yeah! Like Paul said:

Romans 8:24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have?

So I suppose we won't hope for anything if in heaven we have it all! Perhaps there's little hope of Hope being greater, then.

But what about Faith? Will we stop having faith in God when we get to heaven?
 
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