What is ID?

[TagliatelliMonster]

A freezer isn't natural, it's made by a creative mind.

The same goes for Artificial Intelligence. Hence the analogy.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

How did pre emergent mind matter configure itself to allow for the biological elasticity that exists in life leading to the electrochemical platform that the emergent property of mind rests on?

That's a really weird question. "pre emergent mind matter"? No idea what you are trying to say.

If you are asking how the brain came to be, it's the result of millions of years of evolution.

How did the intellectual and philosophic endowments of mind evolve from increasingly lesser intelligences the further back they go, finally taking origin in primitive life which was utterly devoid of all thinking and feeling?

If a mind is an emergent property from a physical brain, then that is an invalid question, as it still assumes the "mind" to be some entity that can exist without its physical "host".

How did such a remarkable coincidence of falling upstairs develop minds conscious of truth, beauty and goodness, of God? Is this faith a kind of unforeseen virus to the magical pre emergent mind forces?

Mutate, survive, reproduce, repeat.

 

[Jordan Mays]

Minds don't create themselves.

Has a mind [or a God] ever been known to exist absence of brain?

 

[Colter]

Has a mind [or a God] ever been known to exist absence of brain?

Hardware & software, cellphone & signal. Material mind is the hardware created to receive the software of personality and various broadcasts of the cosmic mind weather one aknowleges the source or not.

3:6.3 "All religious philosophy, sooner or later, arrives at the concept of unified universe rule, of one God. Universe causes cannot be lower than universe effects. The source of the streams of universe life and of the cosmic mind must be above the levels of their manifestation. The human mind cannot be consistently explained in terms of the lower orders of existence. Man's mind can be truly comprehended only by recognizing the reality of higher orders of thought and purposive will. Man as a moral being is inexplicable unless the reality of the Universal Father is acknowledged." UB 1955

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Hardware & software, cellphone & signal. Material mind is the hardware created to receive the software of personality and various broadcasts of the cosmic mind weather one aknowleges the source or not.

I'm afraid you're gonna have to make a lot more sense then that..

 

[Colter]

That's a really weird question. "pre emergent mind matter"? No idea what you are trying to say.

If you are asking how the brain came to be, it's the result of millions of years of evolution.



If a mind is an emergent property from a physical brain, then that is an invalid question, as it still assumes the "mind" to be some entity that can exist without its physical "host".



Mutate, survive, reproduce, repeat.

That so called weird question is based on your claim that mind emerged spontaneously from matter, from a time when there was no mind. That the phenomenon of consciousness rest on brain that naturally evolved from matter.

 

[Colter]

I'm afraid you're gonna have to make a lot more sense then that..

We will have to wait for you to mutate, survive, reproduce, repeat a little further to get the point.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

That so called weird question is based on your claim that mind emerged spontaneously from matter,

I don't think I used the word "spontaneously".
I said that all the evidence suggests that the mind is an emergent property of a physical brain.

You talk about a "mind" as being an entity that exists independendly.
I don't see any justification of that. All the evidence suggests that minds are produced by physical brains.

That the phenomenon of consciousness rest on brain that naturally evolved from matter.

Do you have a reason to believe otherwise?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

We will have to wait for you to mutate, survive, reproduce, repeat a little further to get the point.

Or you could you just explain/clarify your point...

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Hardware & software, cellphone & signal. Material mind is the hardware created to receive the software of personality and various broadcasts of the cosmic mind weather one aknowleges the source or not.

Hi, Colter. This is a nice way of squaring the problem of consciousness. I bet we can agree that nearly everything we do and think and feel requires the brain. But the claim that there is something beyond the brain that makes that so is wholly unsubstantiated. It seems to be a view that would be really difficult to back up in any meaningful way, in my opinion.

 

[Colter]

I don't think I used the word "spontaneously".
I said that all the evidence suggests that the mind is an emergent property of a physical brain.

You talk about a "mind" as being an entity that exists independendly.
I don't see any justification of that. All the evidence suggests that minds are produced by physical brains.



Do you have a reason to believe otherwise?

That's why I used the analogy cellphone and signal, we know that the 2 cant function independently of each other.

The spontaneous emergence of life from lifeless matter would have to be the logical default position in a Godless universe.

In my theology when earth had evolved to the point wherein it could sustain "life" the Life Carriers arrived and organized the material patterns that could receive the "spark of life" and the "endowment of mind".

Science has now captured the moment when this "spark of life" is transmitted in the fertilization of the egg.

 

[Colter]

Hi, Colter. This is a nice way of squaring the problem of consciousness. I bet we can agree that nearly everything we do and think and feel requires the brain. But the claim that there is something beyond the brain that makes that so is wholly unsubstantiated. It seems to be a view that would be really difficult to back up in any meaningful way, in my opinion.

It may be unsubstantiated or denied but that doesn't mean we don't use adjutant mind spirits.

This says it better than I can:


"The possession of personality identifies man as a spiritual being since the unity of selfhood and the self-consciousness of personality are endowments of the supermaterial world. The very fact that a mortal materialist can deny the existence of supermaterial realities in and of itself demonstrates the presence, and indicates the working, of spirit synthesis and cosmic consciousness in his human mind.

There exists a great cosmic gulf between matter and thought, and this gulf is immeasurably greater between material mind and spiritual love. Consciousness, much less self-consciousness, cannot be explained by any theory of mechanistic electronic association or materialistic energy phenomena." UB 1955

 

[Gene Parmesan]

The very fact that a mortal materialist can deny the existence of supermaterial realities in and of itself demonstrates the presence, and indicates the working, of spirit synthesis and cosmic consciousness in his human mind.

Personally, I'm not denying the claim. I'm just currently unconvinced.

It's one thing to say something like, "the brain could be a router and the mind like the internet," or something to that effect. Yeah, it could be. Now, how do we test it? I'd like to have a good reason to believe it is true before I can be convinced.

 

[Colter]

Personally, I'm not denying the claim. I'm just currently unconvinced.

It's one thing to say something like, "the brain could be a router and the mind like the internet," or something to that effect. Yeah, it could be. Now, how do we test it? I'd like to have a good reason to believe it is true before I can be convinced.

I agree, I had stated a few pages ago that spirit or God can neither be proven nor disproven. It's like morality, we can't prove it's existence in a math lab. Together our minds recognize the existence of values. We routinely function with priori assumptions that we didn't first verify. Something can be more than the sum total of its constituent parts.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

I agree, I had stated a few pages ago that spirit or God can neither be proven nor disproven. It's like morality, we can't prove it's existence in a math lab. Together our minds recognize the existence of values. We routinely function with priori assumptions that we didn't first verify. Something can be more than the sum total of its constituent parts.

Well said. So admitting that it can't be verified or proven, how convinced are you that it is true?

 

[doubtingmerle]

Hardware & software, cellphone & signal. Material mind is the hardware created to receive the software of personality and various broadcasts of the cosmic mind weather one aknowleges the source or not.

3:6.3 "All religious philosophy, sooner or later, arrives at the concept of unified universe rule, of one God. Universe causes cannot be lower than universe effects. The source of the streams of universe life and of the cosmic mind must be above the levels of their manifestation. The human mind cannot be consistently explained in terms of the lower orders of existence. Man's mind can be truly comprehended only by recognizing the reality of higher orders of thought and purposive will. Man as a moral being is inexplicable unless the reality of the Universal Father is acknowledged." UB 1955

If your brain is just hardware receiving the radio signals from the true self, and there are many brains out there each tuned to receive signals from the unique self that actuates it, how do you know your brain is receiving signals from the correct source?

What would happen if my brain started receiving the signals from your source?

 

[Kenny'sID]

It seems the ID proponentsists have gone a bit shy.

Not on your life.

I notice that there are a few posters with ID in their usernames or signatures and a few posters who regularly try and promote or defend intelligent design.

ID = Identification in my case.

Intelligent Design
Intelligent design refers to a scientific research program as well as a community of scientists, philosophers and other scholars who seek evidence of design in nature. The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection. Through the study and analysis of a system's components, a design theorist is able to determine whether various natural structures are the product of chance, natural law, intelligent design, or some combination thereof.

Surely you aren't saying that is the officially accepted definition?
To me, and if you will forgive my candidousity...it's reference to creation with an intelligent designer, as opposed to stupid design, meaning no intelligence required.

 

[joshua 1 9]

If your brain is just hardware receiving the radio signals from the true self, and there are many brains out there each tuned to receive signals from the unique self that actuates it, how do you know your brain is receiving signals from the correct source?

What would happen if my brain started receiving the signals from your source?

There is a book called "To kill a mockingbird". This is one of the few books that deals with mob or herd mentality. There is also a book called "Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds" At one time I use to make quite a bit easy money taking advantage of the "madness of crowds".

 

[Speedwell]

Not on your life.



ID = Identification in my case.



Surely you aren't saying that is the officially accepted definition?
To me, and if you will forgive my candidousity...it's reference to creation with an intelligent designer, as opposed to stupid design, meaning no intelligence required.

Yes, it is. What you are talking about as ID, most people call that "theistic evolution." But we figured out some time ago that you weren't actually talking about ID as defined by its supporters--see above.

 

[Jordan Mays]

Has a mind [or a God] ever been known to exist absence of brain?

Perhaps if I asked it another way.
Do you think a mind can exist without a brain?