Orthodox Jews, why did the event recorded in Yoma 39b happen?

[Na Nach Oi!]

Our Rabbis taught: During the last forty years before the destruction of the Temple the lot [‘For the Lord’] did not come up in the right hand; nor did the crimson-coloured strap become white; nor did the westernmost light shine; and the doors of the Hekal would open by themselves, until R. Johanan b. Zakkai rebuked them, saying: Hekal, Hekal, why wilt thou be the alarmer thyself? I know about thee that thou wilt be destroyed, for Zechariah ben Ido has already prophesied concerning thee: Open thy doors, O Lebanon, that the fire may devour thy cedars.

Talmud Bavli, Yoma 39b​

Orthodox Jews (or Messianics), why did "these strange events" in Temple services recorded which lasted for 40 years (30-70 AD) in Yoma 39b happen?

Do you even think this is because of the arrival of Moshiach (i.e. Yeshua/Jesus) 2000 years ago?

Why did these events happen after the crucifixion of Jesus? In Jesus' timeline in 1st century? Is it purely coincidence?

These events must have theological significance because this is about the Temple, right?

 

[visionary]

40 years + 30 AD [aprox Yeshua's death] = 70 AD. Since the destruction of the temple, sacrificial system went dormant.

 

[visionary]

Throughout the forty years that Simeon the Righteous ministered, the lot [For the Lord] would always come up in the right hand; from that time on, it would come up now in the right hand, now in the left. And [during the same time] the crimson-colored strap would become white. From that time on it would at times become white, at others not. Also: Throughout those forty years the westernmost light was shining, from that time on, it was now shining, now failing; also the fire of the pile of wood kept burning strong, so that the priests did not have to bring to the pile any other wood besides the two logs, in order to fulfill the command about providing the wood intermittently; from that time on, it would occasionally keep burning strongly, at other times not, so that the priests could not do without bringing throughout the day wood for the pile [on the altar]. . . .

In continuation of what you quoted, there is more... " I know about thee that thou wilt be destroyed, for Zechariah ben Ido has already prophesied concerning thee: Open thy doors, O Lebanon, that the fire may devour thy cedars. Which was tied between the horns of the bullock. If that became white, it signified that the Holy One, blessed be He, had forgiven Israel's sin. Though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow (Isa. I, 18, Rashi). Yoma 39b, Babylonian Talmud, Soncino Press Edition

 

[visionary]

The Hebrew word for scarlet [red] thread; in Genesis 38:29 is shaniy; which means:

scarlet, crimson; the insect;coccus ilicis; the dried body of the female yielding coloring matter from which is made the dye used for cloth to color it scarlet or crimson.

From this dye we get the scarlet color of the red thread used to separate the goat of the Lord from the scapegoat.

 

[visionary]

There is a fascinating story behind this little worm, which will explain the profound meaning of this verse. When the life of the female coccus ilicis, (or scarlet worm) is nearing the end of her life, she climbs a tree and attaches her body to it, fixing her-self so firmly and permanently, she virtually impales herself on the tree, and never leaves again. Just before she dies, her eggs hatch and she gives birth to her young. The eggs deposited beneath her body are now protected from predators. Then, after the larvae hatch they are able to enter their own life cycle. As the mother dies, crimson fluid from within her body, stains her own body and the surrounding wood she is attached to.

She makes the ultimate sacrifice and because of her own death, her offspring are given new life. From the crushed, dried dead bodies of such female scarlet worms, the scarlet dye is extracted and used to dye wool red.

 

[visionary]

The crushed bug contains a anti-bacterial chemical agent and that could be part of the reason why it is used in two types of purification ceremonies

Scarlet scarlet - Online Bible Study Tools

It was included in the purification of the house
Leviticus 14:52 And he shall cleanse the house with the blood of the bird, and with the running water, and with the living bird, and with the cedar wood, and with the hyssop, and with the scarlet;

Scarlet was also used in the formula with the ashes of the red heifer
Leviticus 19:6 And the priest shall take cedar wood, and hyssop, and scarlet, and cast it into the midst of the burning of the heifer;

These ashes were used to cleanse a person when they came into contact with a dead body (a host for bacteria). This crimson, the worm coccus ilicis, was necessary to make one clean, which is symbolic of the blood of Yeshua removing the sin of disease and death from us.

Isaiah 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised [crushed] for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
or as the Book of Hebrew says.

Hebrews 9:13-14 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies to the purifying of the flesh: How much more shall the blood of our Messiah Yeshua, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

 

[visionary]

The scarlet cord referred to in the book of Joshua, when Rahab hung from her window, which preserved her life from the invasion.

Joshua 2:21 And she said, According unto your words, so be it. And she sent them away, and they departed: and she bound the scarlet line in the window.

 

[visionary]

Now just for coincidences... In Latin, ilicis literally means....it is finished!

 

[visionary]

How about this for another interesting connection.. The perfect woman in Proverbs has her household is clothed in scarlet.

Prov 31:21 She is not afraid of the snow for her household: for all her household are clothed with scarlet.

 

[visionary]

Yeshua calls Himself "a worm", so is it the scarlet worm He is thinking of...

Most people agree that Psalm 22 is a depiction of the Messiah to come.

Psalm 22:1-6. My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring? O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent. But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel. Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them. They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded. But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people. All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying, He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.

 

[visionary]

Here is a little more detail about the path the worm takes to get to the last pic. Studying the characteristics and the life cycle of the crimson or scarlet worm I find some very interesting parallels. Here are just a few things that I have discovered about the crimson worm and how it relates to the death of Yeshua.

First, the crimson worm climbs on the tree all by itself. Nobody forces it to get on the tree. It willingly searches out the kermes oak which is symbolic of its destiny. Then, by its own choice it climbs on the tree. Please understand that nobody forced Yeshua on his destiny path. What He did was of His own choice. He could have called all the angels of Heaven to release Him but He died alone for you and me. The crimson worm knows when it climbs on the tree that it will not come back down alive. It is going to the tree to birth a family and to do that it must die. Yeshua was also willing to die to birth [born again] family.

Once on the tree, the crimson worm then attaches itself to the tree. It makes sure it is secure because the body of the worm will eventually be the shelter for the young, which are born. Remember, it was not nails that held our Savior to the tree [stake]. It was love! That same love and broken body of our Lord is the protection for us against all the winds of heresy and unbelief of the ages. The worm will then lay its eggs and shelter them under her body.

During the birthing process, she secretes a crimson fluid or gel. The scarlet fluid covers her entire body and all the eggs she lays. It also leaves a stain on the tree, which will never fade away with the passing of time!

 

[visionary]

After dying to birth the family, something amazing takes place. For a period of three days the worm can be scraped from the tree and the crimson gel can be used to make a dye. That dye was the same which was used in the tabernacle and in the garments of the High Priest. That includes Yeshua's High Priest's garment. 'Revealing Yeshua' Scarlet for purification Blood for the ritual

On the morning of the fourth day, the worm has pulled the head and tail together and is now in the shape of a heart on the tree but it is no longer crimson. It is now a wax, which is white as snow. After three days, the dead mother crimson worm's body loses its crimson color and turns into a white wax which falls to the ground like snow. They can still harvest the wax and use it to make shellac, a preservative of wood. Praise God for the resurrection, which serves as the preservative of the message of salvation.

The crimson worm is also very fragrant when it is crushed. No other life in history has sweetened the pathway of humanity like the crimson worm who was crushed for our sin, Yeshua.

 

[visionary]

The veil of the tabernacle separated the Holy Place of the temple from the Holy of Holies. Yet this curtain is more than a cloth barrier, it is a model of the suffering Messiah and that by His blood access is made into the very presence of the Most High.

We are given a list of three colors to weave this veil; blue, purple and scarlet. Each of these colors has a symbolic meaning. Blue is the color of the heavens and the heavenly regions. Purple is the color of royalty and kingship. Scarlet is the color of blood, sacrifice and death.

 

[visionary]

Our Rabbis taught: During the last forty years before the destruction of the Temple the lot [‘For the Lord’] did not come up in the right hand; nor did the crimson-coloured strap become white; nor did the westernmost light shine; and the doors of the Hekal would open by themselves, until R. Johanan b. Zakkai rebuked them, saying: Hekal, Hekal, why wilt thou be the alarmer thyself? I know about thee that thou wilt be destroyed, for Zechariah ben Ido has already prophesied concerning thee: Open thy doors, O Lebanon, that the fire may devour thy cedars.

Talmud Bavli, Yoma 39b​

Orthodox Jews (or Messianics), why did "these strange events" in Temple services recorded which lasted for 40 years (30-70 AD) in Yoma 39b happen?

Do you even think this is because of the arrival of Moshiach (i.e. Yeshua/Jesus) 2000 years ago?

Why did these events happen after the crucifixion of Jesus? In Jesus' timeline in 1st century? Is it purely coincidence?

These events must have theological significance because this is about the Temple, right?

So, to answer your question, I have to say it is not purely coincidence. There is theological significance. And as the above thread post indicate, I only covered the colored part of the strap story.

 

[Na Nach Oi!]

So, to answer your question, I have to say it is not purely coincidence. There is theological significance. And as the above thread post indicate, I only covered the colored part of the strap story.

I wonder what would the Orthodox Jews here say.
Maybe, they would say it is pure coincidence to deny any connection to what Jesus do (i.e. sacrificial death).

 

[visionary]

I wonder what would the Orthodox Jews here say.
Maybe, they would say it is pure coincidence to deny any connection to what Jesus do (i.e. sacrificial death).

One of the reasons that they documented the event of 40 years, is because it more than coincidence.

 

[Na Nach Oi!]

One of the reasons that they documented the event of 40 years, is because it more than coincidence.

"They" (Mishnah compilers) documented it, because it was a significant event happened to their Holy Temple.

But, they didn't (and still don't) understand until now why it happened because they disconnect Jesus from the Temple.

They almost "got it" when they wrote in Yoma 9b, the cause of destruction of the Second Temple was "shinat chinam" (baseless hatred).
But, the question is, they have "baseless hatred" toward whom?
Ha, they seemed confused here.

"But why was the second Sanctuary destroyed, seeing that in its time they were occupying themselves with Torah, [observance of] precepts, and the practice of charity? Because therein prevailed hatred without cause. That teaches you that groundless hatred is considered as of even gravity with the three sins of idolatry, immorality, and bloodshed together . - Yoma 9b

If I had not done among them the works that no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have seen and hated both Me and My Father. But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: ‘They hated Me without reason' - John 15:24-25

 

[Na Nach Oi!]

One of the reasons that they documented the event of 40 years, is because it more than coincidence.

שִׂנְאַת חִנָּם Sinat Chinam and Tishah B'Av

 

[visionary]

I don't know if this will help fettering out the clues of history for the goings on in that time period at the temple...

Tacitus (A.D. 115) - Roman historian
"13. Prodigies had occurred, but their expiation by the offering of victims or solemn vows is held to be unlawful by a nation which is the slave of superstition and the enemy of true beliefs. In the sky appeared a vision of armies in conflict, of glittering armour. A sudden lightning flash from the clouds lit up the Temple. The doors of the holy place abruptly opened, a superhuman voice was heard to declare that the gods were leaving it, and in the same instant came the rushing tumult of their departure. Few people placed a sinister interpretation upon this. The majority were convinced that the ancient scriptures of their priests alluded to the present as the very time when the Orient would triumph and from Judaea would go forth men destined to rule the world." (Histories, Book 5, v. 13).

 

[visionary]

Josephus (A.D. 75) - Jewish Historian
"Besides these [signs], a few days after that feast, on the one- and-twentieth day of the month Artemisius, [Jyar,] a certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared; I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve such signals; for, before sun-setting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armour were seen running about among the clouds, and surrounding of cities. Moreover, at that feast which we call Pentecost, as the priests were going by night into the inner [court of the] temple, as their custom was, to perform their sacred ministrations, they said that, in the first place, they felt a quaking, and heard a great noise, and after that they heard a sound as of a great multitude, saying, "Let us remove hence" (Jewish Wars, VI-V-3).