War

[W2L]

I tell you what you are free to not serve but do not judge those who have choosen to ir would have chooen to do so had their health allowed ( like me).

Im not judging. You feel judged but its not me who is doing it. I already said im not anti military. Im anti war.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Im not judging. You feel judged but its not me who is doing it. I already said im not anti military. Im anti war.

and I have already told you that most people ( that are not violent or crazy are anti-war there is a difference in PROMOTING war and being willing to engage in it if nothing else works.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

QUOTE="dogs4thewin, post: 71130573, member: 306387"]and I have already told you that most people ( that are not violent or crazy are anti-war there is a difference in PROMOTING war and being willing to engage in it if nothing else works.[/QUOTE

Yet God never allows that particular excuse in Scripture, does HE?
At least , particularly, not in the NEW TESTAMENT.
Whenever JESUS told the disciples
to do what the FATHER said to do
IN the NEW TESTAMENT,
and they did,
it happened just as GOD said !
Right?

 

[W2L]

and I have already told you that most people ( that are not violent or crazy are anti-war there is a difference in PROMOTING war and being willing to engage in it if nothing else works.

I can see you dont agree with my understanding of holiness. Our holiness is important to our prayers. We must be holy or God will not answer our prayers. Thats what the bible teaches us.

So, if our prayers are not being answered by God, then we are not following holiness. Is warfare holy? Paul says that our warfare is spiritual not carnal, and its holy warfare.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

Our holiness is important to our prayers. We must be holy or God will not answer our prayers. Thats what the bible teaches us.

There was a holy man walking down the street who came upon a victim who had been badly beaten, lying at the side of the road. He passed by on the other side.

Let's modify that parable for the sake of argument:

There was a holy man walking down the street who came upon a victim who was, at that very moment, being beaten viciously by a robber. What do you think he did? Would he be any more likely to help the victim than when he came after the fact? Of course not. He was too busy being holy to interfere!

How does a good Samaritan act when he encounters the victim in the process of being beaten? For the victim's sake, I hope he responds violently. All holiness is an effort to limit the extent of sin. It is not merely a bragging right for one individual over another. You don't get to stand by and watch one man commit violence against another, never intervening, and consider it the other man's sin only, and not your own.

 

[W2L]

There was a holy man walking down the street who came upon a victim who had been badly beaten, lying at the side of the road. He passed by on the other side.

Let's modify that parable for the sake of argument:

There was a holy man walking down the street who came upon a victim who was, at that very moment, being beaten viciously by a robber. What do you think he did? Would he be any more likely to help the victim than when he came after the fact? Of course not. He was too busy being holy to interfere!

How does a good Samaritan act when he encounters the victim in the process of being beaten? For the victim's sake, I hope he responds violently. All holiness is an effort to limit the extent of sin. It is not merely a bragging right for one individual over another. You don't get to stand by and watch one man commit violence against another, never intervening, and consider it the other man's sin only, and not your own.

I dont see dropping bombs as being a good Samaritan. Thanks for your reply.

 

[W2L]

Paul says it twice.

Ephesians 6:12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age,[c] against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

2 Corinthians 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, 5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,

 

[football5680]

I wasn't quoting Romans 13. You are confused.

I know what you were quoting which is why I said read verses 5 and 6. The Romans quote was a separate point I was making. So no, I am not confused.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

When Saint Paul was writing his letters, Christians were not in power and had no control over any government.

As far as we know, this never changed.
If Christians were in power (earthly), we believe that there would be no war.

 

[W2L]

I know what you were quoting which is why I said read verses 5 and 6. The Romans quote was a separate point I was making. So no, I am not confused.

Ok, thank you.

 

[W2L]

As far as we know, this never changed.
If Christians were in power (earthly), we believe that there would be no war.

I admit, they do make a good point about helping someone who needs help, such as in the good Samaritan story, but i have a hard time supporting war. I use to be a Christian who supported war, but i changed my mind. It'll be something that bothers me the rest of my life i suspect.

 

[Courage Ampadu]

I admit, they do make a good point about helping someone who needs help, such as in the good Samaritan story, but i have a hard time supporting war. I use to be a Christian who supported war, but i changed my mind. It'll be something that bothers me the rest of my life i suspect.

When I first started reading this thread I thought; what a fantastic thread. I thought you had asked a very important question but soon I realised you weren't asking for opinions, you weren't open to hearing other people out, you were out to get everyone to agree with you, correct me if I am wrong. The truth is that we all know in part, and that includes me. If you are not prepared to learn or to consider that you may not have got it entirely right on an issue what is the point in raising it on a forum like this? The first few posts were great but soon this whole thread turned into a back and forth argument over the same thing where not much merit is given to what people are trying to say. Having said that you seem to have changed your approach slightly in your last post and that is refreshing to see.

I have a view on this matter and have already expressed it but I do not believe that I know all there is to know about the topic and I am open to learning from anyone who will prove me wrong or give me a new perspective. Simply going back and forth with the same bible verses does not strike me as helping people to get a different perspective. By the way I am not trying to attack you or anyone here, just trying to open up a potentially interesting discussion to allow other perspectives to be shared.

Thanks for starting this thread.

 

[W2L]

When I first started reading this thread I thought; what a fantastic thread. I thought you had asked a very important question but soon I realised you weren't asking for opinions, you weren't open to hearing other people out, you were out to get everyone to agree with you, correct me if I am wrong. The truth is that we all know in part, and that includes me. If you are not prepared to learn or to consider that you may not have got it entirely right on an issue what is the point in raising it on a forum like this? The first few posts were great but soon this whole thread turned into a back and forth argument over the same thing where not much merit is given to what people are trying to say. Having said that you seem to have changed your approach slightly in your last post and that is refreshing to see.

I have a view on this matter and have already expressed it but I do not believe that I know all there is to know about the topic and I am open to learning from anyone who will prove me wrong or give me a new perspective. Simply going back and forth with the same bible verses does not strike me as helping people to get a different perspective. By the way I am not trying to attack you or anyone here, just trying to open up a potentially interesting discussion to allow other perspectives to be shared.

Thanks for starting this thread.

I was trying to express many different aspects of what i believe. It was proving to be difficult. I accept your criticism however, and thank you.

 

[W2L]

One thing is for sure, and im sure we can all agree, the Apostles didnt fight in carnal wars, nor use carnal weapons. I guess the only question is, do we?

 

[The Times]

Is there some reason we can't do both?

A prayer is a supplication, done with fasting, like the following......

3So I turned to the Lord God and pleaded with him in prayer and petition, in fasting, and in sackcloth and ashes.
4I prayed to the Lord my God and confessed:

“Lord, the great and awesome God, who keeps his covenant of love with those who love him and keep his commandments, 5we have sinned and done wrong. We have been wicked and have rebelled; we have turned away from your commands and laws. 6We have not listened to your servants the prophets, who spoke in your name to our kings, our princes and our ancestors, and to all the people of the land. (Daniel 9:3-6)

If a person or a nation is lamenting their immoralities and bringing them to Jesus Christ as a broken and contrite heart, then it would be hypocritical to practice the opposite by bombing your enemies, for it is written love your enemies. So any one or country that think that war is morally right by way of human reasoning, then they are walking like lambs, but speaking like dragons of destruction. All neo cons speak like dragons.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The truth is that we all know in part, and that includes me.

The truth is that, over all, everywhere, there is more corrupt than not corrupt, and God's Word is the standard, in Chrirst, in prayer, to do as Christ says (not as anyone's opinion says - not even to listen unless God permits, then also not to accept, unless first tested and proven as God's Word says (rightly, as God says) ) .

 

[Albion]

If a person or a nation is lamenting their immoralities and bringing them to Jesus Christ as a broken and contrite heart, then it would be hypocritical to practice the opposite by bombing your enemies, for it is written love your enemies. .

What's defective about that argument is that the people you are speaking of are able to pray, but they do not "bomb" enemy nations. That is a function of governments.

Yet on this thread we see a rather casual condemnation of anyone who doesn't argue against what the government does when IT engages in an act of war.

It's a completely bogus argument.

 

[BobRyan]

I believe Trump would say Bomb First Pray Later.

U.S. military forces have been at war for all eight years of Obama’s tenure, the first two-term president with that distinction. He launched airstrikes or military raids in at least seven countries: Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Somalia and Pakistan.

But of course the minute President Trump launches a few tomohawks into Syria then the memory of the Obama presidency "vanishes" when it comes to military raids, air strikes etc.

How convenient.

I am all for peace - pray that ISIS will vanish or be saved and ready for the 2nd coming rather than that ISIS should continue torturing people world wide.

In the mean time - Genesis 9

5 Surely I will require your lifeblood; from every beast I will require it. And from every man, from every man’s brother I will require the life of man.
6 “Whoever sheds man’s blood,
By man his blood shall be shed,
For in the image of God
He made man.

 

[The Times]

What's defective about that argument is that the people you are speaking of are able to pray, but they do not "bomb" enemy nations. That is a function of governments.

Yet on this thread we see a rather casual condemnation of anyone who doesn't argue against what the government does when IT engages in an act of war.

It's a completely bogus argument.

How so?

As Christians we are not instructed by Jesus to support those picking up a sword or to pickup a sword ourselves. Jesus couldn't have made it clearer to Peter.

To pray for a government who actually does the bombing, is to also be guilty by association of what results from the bombing.

44But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,45that you may be children of your Father in heaven.

I have my orders from Jesus Christ to pray for my enemies. If a person prays for the government doing the bombing, then can you see that it is completely opposite to what Jesus instructed.

If we pray for someone to destroy another, this doesn't fit well with being children of our Father in heaven, does it?

 

[Albion]

How so?

As Christians we are not instructed by Jesus to support those picking up a sword or to pickup a sword ourselves. Jesus couldn't have made it clearer to Peter.

How easily you've switched from talking about "War" and "Bombs" to...

..."picking up a sword" during a dispute between two men.


Shall we now discuss the morality of fistfights instead of Air Force bombing raids?

To pray for a government who actually does the bombing, is to also be guilty by association of what results from the bombing.

That's sophistry. No, it does not amount to guilt by association in any way.

Indeed, it's completely within Christ's instructions to pray for those who are NOT doing what you consider right. You said so yourself.