Jesus' commandments - opposed to His Fathers Commandments? - Really?

[1stcenturylady]

True. I fully agree. And as Jesus said (pre-cross) "IF you Love Me KEEP my Commandments" just as we see in Exodus 20:6 "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" -- spoken by Christ Himself according to Hebrews 8:6-10.



Paul said in Romans 3:19-20 and Romans 7 that the LAW defines what sin is - for the saints not just the lost... EVEN in the NT.

Jesus said Matt 4 "Man does NOT live by bread alone but by every WORD that proceeds from the mouth of God" -- scripture is included there.

Jesus said that misguided people would do evil thinking that they were serving God John 16:1-3.

In the dark ages they got the idea that they did not need the Word of God to inform them. But that did not work well.

James says the LAW of God is still a mirror for the saints.

John says in 1 John 3:4 "Sin IS transgression of the LAW" .

The NEW Covenant is quoted in Hebrews 8:6-10 -- unchanged from its form in Jeremiah 31:31-33 -- and how does Jeremiah know that the Ten Commandments are no longer included in the moral law of God? He never claimed to know such a thing.

Even the pro-Sunday scholars admit to this Bible detail about God's Ten Commandments.

If you love, you aren't going to be lusting after someone, hating someone, committing adultery with someone and cause them to burn in hell too? You're not going to steal or covet, but be content with giving more than receiving. Love, love, love. You are going to be in awe of God and fear Him with a reverent fear. Thus, you are not going to dishonor Him or His name, or want any other god.

1 John 3:23 "And THIS is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave commandment."

Galatians 5:16-18 "Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law."

Do you know what walking in the Spirit means, Bob. Do you know that if you walk in the Spirit you are not under LAW??????? What laws are they, Bob. Ceremonial? No, they are against, "the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God." Oh, look, no mention of breaking the Sabbath. Go figure...

 

[stuart lawrence]

I prefer the "Goal of the Law" as Common English Bible renders it


Albert Barn's commentary brings out this detail.


Romans 10 Commentary - Albert Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible
"Is the end of the law" - The word translated “end” means what completes a thing, or renders it perfect; also the boundary, issue, or termination of anything, as the end of life, the result of a prophecy, etc.; John 13:1;Luke 22:37. It also means the design or object which is had in view; the principal purpose for which it was undertaken; 1 Timothy 1:5,” The end of the commandment is charity;” the main design or purpose of the command is to produce love; 1 Peter 1:9, “The end of your faith, the salvation of your souls;” the main design or purpose of faith is to secure salvation; Romans 14:9, “To this end Christ both died,” etc. For this design or purpose. This is doubtless its meaning here. “The main design or object which the perfect obedience of the Law would accomplish, is accomplished by faith in Christ.” That is, perfect obedience to the Law would accomplish justification before God, secure his favor and eternal life. The same end is now accomplished by faith in Christ. "

1 Peter 1:9, “The end of your faith, the salvation of your souls;”

The reason I prefer this meaning for 'end' is that there never was such a thing as people being saved in the OT without Christ - by simply obeying perfectly. From the fall of Adam onward - no such thing. Because "ALL have sinned" Romans 3 ... not just people after the cross - but all mankind before the cross as well.

I believe no one who lived before Christ could attain heaven without Christs shed blood.
Moses told the people if they obeyed the law given at Saniai, that would be their righteousness( deut6:25)
It is good to bear this in mind when we read Pauls letters. He states:

But now a righteousness apart from law has been made known, to which the law and the prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe
Rom3:21&22

I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness comes by the law, Christ died for nothing
Gal2:21

So we too have put our faith in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified / righteous by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, for by observing the law no one will be justified
Gal2:16

The above verses and many more, are consistant with the view: Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness.

However a person might interpret Rom10:4 according to the Greek, we have many other verses of Paul, all, in reality saying what rom10:4 states in the KJV

 

[Bob S]

If you love, you aren't going to be lusting after someone, hating someone, committing adultery with someone and cause them to burn in hell too? You're not going to steal or covet, but be content with giving more than receiving. Love, love, love. You are going to be in awe of God and fear Him with a reverent fear. Thus, you are not going to dishonor Him or His name, or want any other god.

1 John 3:23 "And THIS is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave commandment."

Galatians 5:16-18 "Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law."

Do you know what walking in the Spirit means, Bob. Do you know that if you walk in the Spirit you are not under LAW??????? What laws are they, Bob. Ceremonial? No, they are against, "the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God." Oh, look, no mention of breaking the Sabbath. Go figure...

You just blew Bob out of the water lady. Add more salt to his wounded belief system Gal 3:19, 2Cor3:7-11 and if he takes it ll to heart just maybe he will realize he is sitting in the wrong pew.

 

[BobRyan]

If you love, you aren't going to be lusting after someone, hating someone, committing adultery with someone and cause them to burn in hell too? You're not going to steal or covet, but be content with giving more than receiving. Love, love, love. You are going to be in awe of God and fear Him with a reverent fear. Thus, you are not going to dishonor Him or His name, or want any other god.

And God says this "IF you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments"... so instead of dismissing them - we seek to obey them just as Romans 8:4-9 points out.

"The saints KEEP the commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Revelation 14:12.

So that Paul can say "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

And John says that we show that we love God - by keeping rather than dismissing - His Commandments 1 John 5:2-3

1 John 3:23 "And THIS is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave commandment."

Yep that is one of them.

And so also Ephesians 6:2 -- "Honor your Father and Mother" --

Galatians 5:16-18 "Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law."

The efforts to delete one or two or three of God's commandments -- does not even show up as something that saints are supposed to do.

 

[BobRyan]

Do you know what walking in the Spirit means, Bob. Do you know that if you walk in the Spirit you are not under LAW???????

Under the New Covenant the LAW of God known to Jeremiah is "written on the heart and mind" according to Hebrews 8:6-10.

The Holy Spirit is the author of the Bible - therefore the saints comply with scripture Romans 8:4-9 instead of trying to delete it.

 

[1stcenturylady]

And God says this "IF you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments"... so instead of dismissing them - we seek to obey them just as Romans 8:4-9 points out.

"The saints KEEP the commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Revelation 14:12.

So that Paul can say "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

And John says that we show that we love God - by keeping rather than dismissing - His Commandments 1 John 5:2-3




Yep that is one of them.

And so also Ephesians 6:2 -- "Honor your Father and Mother" --

Galatians 5:16-18 "Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law."

The efforts to delete one or two or three of God's commandments -- does not even show up as something that saints are supposed to do.

Do you know WHO the Holy Spirit is? He is God. Would God break His laws of righteousness? Wouldn't He honor your father and mother? Of course. In fact, He knows perfections that are not even written about that have to do with each of us individually. They are His will for us, the plans He has for us. Those can't be obtained by just adhering to 10 LAWS. If you love God and walk in His Spirit, why would you even think you could be breaking His commandments? They are ALL based on love and written on our conscience. Do you know the meaning of grace? Do you know the difference between law and grace? Which laws are written on our conscience that are not previously known about? In other words, if you had never heard of the Sabbath, would you instinctively know to rest from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday? No, because it was the sign of the written law on stone, not our hearts of flesh. The knowledge of God IS written on our hearts. The desire to do good IS written on our hearts. I am not wanting to do away with righteousness. I don't go against my conscience, and do not need a written law to do righteousness. God knows His own laws better than anyone, so that is why walking in the Spirit causes me to not break any of His laws that He wants kept.

 

[stuart lawrence]

The difference between law and grace?

Ist century lady believes:

You cannot be saved until you perfectly observe the law( cease all sin)

if you fail to observe the law as a Christian you immediately lose your righteousness before God.

No grace in the above beliefs, only law

Therefore no one will be declared righteous/ justified in his sight by observing the law
Rom3:20

 

[bugkiller]

I believe no one who lived before Christ could attain heaven without Christs shed blood.
Moses told the people if they obeyed the law given at Saniai, that would be their righteousness( deut6:25)
It is good to bear this in mind when we read Pauls letters. He states:

But now a righteousness apart from law has been made known, to which the law and the prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe
Rom3:21&22

I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness comes by the law, Christ died for nothing
Gal2:21

So we too have put our faith in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified / righteous by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, for by observing the law no one will be justified
Gal2:16

The above verses and many more, are consistant with the view: Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness.

However a person might interpret Rom10:4 according to the Greek, we have many other verses of Paul, all, in reality saying what rom10:4 states in the KJV

The end oft he law is also found in two Gospels - Like and John.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

And God says this "IF you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments"... so instead of dismissing them - we seek to obey them just as Romans 8:4-9 points out.

But Jesus says keep my commandments in Jn 15:!0. Jesus also said in the same sentence He kept His Father's commandments. Without doubt we know Jesus kept the 10 Cs. According to Jn 1:17 Jesus did not bring the law.

"The saints KEEP the commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Revelation 14:12.

Are you ever going to tell us what this means?

So that Paul can say "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

Which are.....

And John says that we show that we love God - by keeping rather than dismissing - His Commandments 1 John 5:2-3

Which are.....

Yep that is one of them.

And so also Ephesians 6:2 -- "Honor your Father and Mother" --

Galatians 5:16-18 "Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law."

The efforts to delete one or two or three of God's commandments -- does not even show up as something that saints are supposed to do.

We do not need to do that, God did.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Under the New Covenant the LAW of God known to Jeremiah is "written on the heart and mind" according to Hebrews 8:6-10.

Only if one disregards v 9.

The Holy Spirit is the author of the Bible - therefore the saints comply with scripture Romans 8:4-9 instead of trying to delete it.

You passage and statement are unrelated.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

The difference between law and grace?

Ist century lady believes:

You cannot be saved until you perfectly observe the law( cease all sin)

if you fail to observe the law as a Christian you immediately lose your righteousness before God.

No grace in the above beliefs, only law

Therefore no one will be declared righteous/ justified in his sight by observing the law
Rom3:20

Unless you are her do not put words in her mouth. She can speak for herself.

bugkiller

 

[stuart lawrence]

Unless you are her do not put words in her mouth. She can speak for herself.

bugkiller

I didn't put those words in her mouth, she spoke them to me

 

[Bob S]

Hi Lady, don't mind Bob when he sees or posts the the word commandments he is programed to see a "10" right there in front of the c. If the writers wanted us to see a 10 in front of the word commandments they would have put one there. God gave His people a lot of commands over the last 6000 years of recorded history and very few referred to the 10.

 

[bugkiller]

I didn't put those words in her mouth, she spoke them to me

Would you kindly post the short cut to that? thanks

bugkiller

 

[1stcenturylady]

But Jesus says keep my commandments in Jn 15:!0. Jesus also said in the same sentence He kept His Father's commandments. Without doubt we know Jesus kept the 10 Cs. According to Jn 1:17 Jesus did not bring the law. Are you ever going to tell us what this means? Which are.....Which are.....We do not need to do that, God did.

bugkiller

When reading the NT I have found that it helps to know the author, as in apostle, and what he has said in their other books.

For instance, when John is speaking, "commandments," like you said, he differentiates between the commandments of Jesus and the commandments of the OT.

John 14:15
“If you love Me, keep My commandments.

John 14:21
He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”

John 15:10
If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

1 John 2:3
Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

1 John 2:4
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3:16-23 (This is where it says what the commandments of Jesus are. They are to love. Also, when you walk in the Spirit, obey your conscience.)

16 By this we know love, because He laid down His life for us. And we also ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. 17 But whoever has this world’s goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him? 18 My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. 19 And by this we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him. 20 For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Revelation 14:12 (John wrote Revelation, therefore we now know what this verse is saying:
Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Paul wrote many commandments of Jesus, himself.

1 Corinthians 14:7
If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 7:10-11
10 Now to the married I command, yet not I but the Lord: A wife is not to depart from her husband. 11 But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband. And a husband is not to divorce his wife.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Would you kindly post the short cut to that? thanks

bugkiller

There is a thread entitled:

If you commit sin are you still of God.

It has over 150 pages in it. I cant scroll through it all to find what you seek. However, why not ask istcentury lady if she told me:

No one can be saved until they have ceased ALL sin( faultlessly observed the law)
And
If a christian commits sin( doesn't observe the law) they are immediatley placed in an unsaved state.
I'm sure she will not lie, and commit sin, but answer truthfully

In fact, why not read the entire thread, you might find it illuminating. You might even find you totally agree with me concerning the subject of grace, now there's a thought!

The person who started the thread believes If you commit any sin once saved you are immediately placed in a condemned state. Ist centurylady fully supports this persons views, as you will see if you read the thread.
It might be good if Bob S read it also!!

 

[klutedavid]

There is a thread entitled:

If you commit sin are you still of God.

It has over 150 pages in it. I cant scroll through it all to find what you seek. However, why not ask istcentury lady if she told me:

No one can be saved until they have ceased ALL sin( faultlessly observed the law)
And
If a christian commits sin( doesn't observe the law) they are immediatley placed in an unsaved state.
I'm sure she will not lie, and commit sin, but answer truthfully

In fact, why not read the entire thread, you might find it illuminating. You might even find you totally agree with me concerning the subject of grace, now there's a thought!

The person who started the thread believes If you commit any sin once saved you are immediately placed in a condemned state. Ist centurylady fully supports this persons views, as you will see if you read the thread.
It might be good if Bob S read it also!!

Hello Stuart.

If a person cannot be saved until they have ceased all sin, then heaven will be an empty place.

A person is saved because that believe in the death and resurrection of the Christ. A person is not saved because some how they match Jesus in their holiness. Your claim undermines the power of the atonement that Jesus provided. This view of yours is legalism pushed to the extreme.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Hello Stuart.

If a person cannot be saved until they have ceased all sin, then heaven will be an empty place.

A person is saved because that believe in the death and resurrection of the Christ. A person is not saved because some how they match Jesus in their holiness. Your claim undermines the power of the atonement that Jesus provided. This view of yours is legalism pushed to the extreme.

You have totally misread my post.

I do NOT believe a person cannot be saved untill they have ceased all sin.
I was explaining to Bugkiller that is what ist centurylady believes.

I totally agree with your views as you stated them. Such a view is legalism pushed to the extreme

 

[BobRyan]

Do you know what walking in the Spirit means, Bob. Do you know that if you walk in the Spirit you are not under LAW???????

Under the New Covenant the LAW of God known to Jeremiah is "written on the heart and mind" according to Hebrews 8:6-10.

The Holy Spirit is the author of the Bible - therefore the saints comply with scripture Romans 8:4-9 instead of trying to delete it.

Do you know WHO the Holy Spirit is? He is God. Would God break His laws of righteousness? Wouldn't He honor your father and mother? Of course.

Indeed - He is not promoting rebellion against His own Word.

Notice how Christ "affirms" what He calls 'The Word of God" here? And He does so by explicit quote of "the Word"

Mark 7:6-13


Mark 7:6-13
6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.

They did not view themselves as law-breakers - yet... they were.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Hello Stuart.

If a person cannot be saved until they have ceased all sin, then heaven will be an empty place.

A person is saved because that believe in the death and resurrection of the Christ. A person is not saved because some how they match Jesus in their holiness. Your claim undermines the power of the atonement that Jesus provided. This view of yours is legalism pushed to the extreme.

ROFL You've got me in stitches. This is the funniest thing I've ever read!!! You won't get the joke, but I know Stuart will!