Jesus' commandments - opposed to His Fathers Commandments? - Really?

[1stcenturylady]

13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

So how then do you not sin if you don't know what sin is through the law? Through the gift of the rebirth of our sinful spirit making us dead to sin, and alive to righteousness (Romans 6). Grace is not the unmerited favor that was bringing us to Christ while we were in our sinful state, nor is it a license to sin now that Jesus has taken our punishment. It is now the power of God to live according to His will. This is how the will of God is written on our hearts, giving us hearts of flesh. The will of God is His eternal law of loving God with all your heart, soul and strength and loving your neighbor as yourself. God now has a new commandment instead of the old letter of don't do this, and don't do that treated us like schoolchildren. It is believing on His Son Jesus Christ, as well as loving your neighbor (1 John 3:23), all done through His Own Spirit (Romans 8:9), for God is love (1 John 4:8).

 

[stuart lawrence]

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[stuart lawrence]

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[stuart lawrence]

The law in your heart basically means you in your heart desire to live as God wants you to. In this sense you have been born again. Your flesh was not born again, hence the eternal struggle of Spirit against flesh

 

[bugkiller]

Sin is( not was) the transgression of the law
1john3:4

Did the law invent sin? no because of Rom 5:13 and Gal 3:19. Furthermore Deut 5:3 clearly says Abraham did not have the law issued at Sinai. You only quote the last half of a verse (sentence) to promote a lie.

The time is coming when I will make a NEW covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah
It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant though i was a husband to them declares the Lord.
This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time declares the Lord
I will put my laws in their minds
And write it on their hearts

Jeremiah 31:31-33

AND you even quote evidence against your POV. WOW, just WOW!!
That covenant was written on two tablets of stone according to Deut 4:13.

Because law brings wrath and where there is no law there is no transgression
Rom4:15

No law of righteousness, its gone. Law unto righteousness brings wrath for you cannot attain to the passmark under it to be truly righteous, which is, 100% perfect obedience

That is not what the verse talks about. Palese read Rom 4. It talks about Abraham and King David both being righteous while both sinned. Abraham without the law and King David under the law.

What then was the purpose of the law? It was given because of transgression until the seed to whom the promise referred had come
Gal3:19

No more system of observe the written law unto righteousness. The Christian lives by faith in Christ, and relies on sanctification by the Spirit, through the gifts of the Spirit in their lives( gal5:22)
Against such fruit there is no law, for the fruits of the Spirit are the embodiment of how God wants you to live.
The law within you, brings you in your heart to want to live as God desires you to. But you don't focus on it to live a holy life, you look to Christ.
But that law within you cuts out a licence to sin under grace. Look to the flesh, rather than follow after the Holy Spirit and your conscience must be seered for you are then going against what is placed in your heart

There can be no post found of mine giving license to sin.

bugkiller

 

[stuart lawrence]

Did the law invent sin? no because of Rom 5:13 and Gal 3:19. Furthermore Deut 5:3 clearly says Abraham did not have the law issued at Sinai. You only quote the last half of a verse (sentence) to promote a lie.AND you even quote evidence against your POV. WOW, just WOW!!
That covenant was written on two tablets of stone according to Deut 4:13.

Sin was in the world before the law was given, but as Paul said, sin is not taken into account without the law.
Before the law was placed within me, I was not conscious of sin, though sin existed, once the law was placed within me, I became conscious of my sin.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Did the law invent sin? no because of Rom 5:13 and Gal 3:19. Furthermore Deut 5:3 clearly says Abraham did not have the law issued at Sinai. You only quote the last half of a verse (sentence) to promote a lie.AND you even quote evidence against your POV. WOW, just WOW!!
That covenant was written on two tablets of stone according to Deut 4:13.

As for quoting evidence against my pov, er no. You are just still not understanding. At the end of the day, who ever changes their minds on these websites? Its just a scripture quoting contest isn't it?

 

[bugkiller]

You posted

But it is the very start of your post where you make a key mistake.

What mistake?

That is the most extreme contradiction of the claims of Christ in the Gospel of John - that I have ever seen!!

OH, It seems you do not understand the word oppose. No where did I mean Jesus is against the law (His Father's commands). The word oppose can be a comparative word. In the sense I used it Jn 15:10 compares two sets of commandments. The verse does not in anyway communicate opposition to anything.

John 14
9 Jesus *said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.

John 12
49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. 50 I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.”

Matt 19
17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not commit murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; 19 Honor your father and mother; and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 20 The young man *said to Him, “All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?” 21 Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

Why do you never post the question them an asked? It shows and sets the context of Jesus' response. Do you not understand no one can earn (obligate God) their way into heaven by performance? You have been quoted the appropriate passages only to disregard and dismiss them.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

But now a RIGHTEOUSNESS apart from law has been made known...rom3:21

No one will be declared RIGHTEOUS in Gods sight by observing the law...
Rom3:20

Not having a RIGHTEOUSNESS of my own that comes from the law
Phil3:9

Christ I the end of the law unto RIGHTEOUSNESS
Rom10:4

I do not set aside the grace of God for if RIGHTEOUSNESS comes from the law Christ died for nothing
Gal2:21

I could go on and on and on, but I'm sure the penny would never drop

In this post you appear to have changed sides. You did post a list of sins clearly identified in the 10 Cs. You clearly posted Rom 3:31 intending to establish the 10 Cs are the rule of conduct for the Christian against JN 13:34. You did post you where once where I am indicting you have returned to the law.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us
1john1:8

THROUGH the law we become conscious of sin
Rom3:20

Confess your sins to each other
James 5:16

THROUGH the law we become conscious of sin
Rom3:20

If we confess our sin, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sin
1john1:9

THROUGH the law we become conscious of sin
Rom3:20

In response to your last line generally - no to your line of reasoning because of Gal 5:18. I am not led by nor under the law.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

You don't understand the covenant.
And as I have repeatedly stated the christians righteousness is faith I Christ, not observing the law.
At best it is ignorance to then suggest I promote the law over Jesus.
You will never reach maturity of understanding unless you change your view on this.
I doubt you will though, as you seem to have great confidence I what you think you know

Why did you post a list of sins directly taken from the 10 Cs and Rom 3:31 intending to prove we are obligated to the law if we are not under it?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

I'm not SDA by the way.
The SDA I know believe they will attain heaven if they obey the TC
I can only attain heaven because Jesus died for me, he is my righteousness/ justification before God from first to last

Did I say you were?

bugkiller

 

[1stcenturylady]

In this post you appear to have changed sides. You did post a list of sins clearly identified in the 10 Cs. You clearly posted Rom 3:31 intending to establish the 10 Cs are the rule of conduct for the Christian against JN 13:34. You did post you where once where I am indicting you have returned to the law.

bugkiller

Who are you responding to? Can you please use the Post Reply red button so it is clear?

 

[bugkiller]

The law doesn't have jurisdiction over your soul. Your rightstanding us Christ who died for you. You are under grace not law.
You misunderstand this, as many do. The law cannot condemn you, you are free.
It was for freedom that Christ has set you free
Gal5:1

Why did you post Rom 3:31? Why did you post a list of sins directly related to the 10 Cs?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

The law doesn't have jurisdiction over your soul. Your rightstanding us Christ who died for you. You are under grace not law.
You misunderstand this, as many do. The law cannot condemn you, you are free.
It was for freedom that Christ has set you free
Gal5:1

Why did you post Rom 3:31? Why did you post a list of sins directly related to the 10 Cs?

bugkiller

 

[1stcenturylady]

Why did you post Rom 3:31? Why did you post a list of sins directly related to the 10 Cs?

bugkiller

I didn't. Who are you talking to?

 

[stuart lawrence]

Why did you post Rom 3:31? Why did you post a list of sins directly related to the 10 Cs?

bugkiller

I will just reply here. It is clear from your responses you fail to understand what I have tried to communicate to you.
As that is the case, there seems no point in us continuing

 

[BobRyan]

You posted

You have argued all over this forum the Christian is under the law. Such is contrary to Jn 15:10 where Jesus says to keep His (Jesus') commands opposed to those of His Father (10 Cs). The NC is based on "better promises," not law (10 Cs).

Your NC is an amended OC and not "NEW." Jeremiah says "cut a new stone" which means start from scratch. Heb 8:6 says based on "better promises," not law. Jeremiah also says "Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake.." Verse 33 does not move the covenant they broke to anyone's heart. The covenant they broke was written in stone called the 10 Cs per Deut 4:13 -

And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

Deut 5:3 makes it clear that covenant was made only with the COI.

Now my free will since you brought it up is to believe and accept Jn 1:17; 3:16; 5:24; 10:1-10; 15:10.

Need to quote JN 10:1-10 here -

1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. 4And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. 5And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. 6This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.

7Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. 8All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. 9I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. 10The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

bugkiller

But it is the very start of your post where you make a key mistake.

You have argued all over this forum the Christian is under the law. Such is contrary to Jn 15:10 where Jesus says to keep His (Jesus') commands opposed to those of His Father (10 Cs).

That is the most extreme contradiction of the claims of Christ in the Gospel of John - that I have ever seen!!

John 14
9 Jesus *said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.

John 12
49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. 50 I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.”

Matt 19
17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not commit murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; 19 Honor your father and mother; and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 20 The young man *said to Him, “All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?” 21 Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

What mistake?

The one I identified for you in that post you quoted and responded to above

OH, It seems you do not understand the word oppose. No where did I mean Jesus is against the law (His Father's commands). The word oppose can be a comparative word. In the sense I used it Jn 15:10 compares two sets of commandments. The verse does not in anyway communicate opposition to anything.

John 15:10 does not say "do not keep My Father's commandments". John 12:29 says "the opposite" of such an imagined idea.

Hebrews 8:6-10 says it is Jesus speaking the TEN Commandments at Sinai.

From your statement above - you appear to have changed your mind and decided to keep them since Jesus spoke them and they are Jesus' commandments.

Now we all can see how these two texts fit perfectly with the point.


John 12
49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. 50 I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.”

Matt 19
17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not commit murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; 19 Honor your father and mother; and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 20 The young man *said to Him, “All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?” 21 Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

 

[BobRyan]

The will of God is His eternal law of loving God with all your heart, soul and strength and loving your neighbor as yourself. God now has a new commandment instead of the old letter of don't do this, and don't do that treated us like schoolchildren. It is believing on His Son Jesus Christ, as well as loving your neighbor (1 John 3:23), all done through His Own Spirit (Romans 8:9), for God is love (1 John 4:8).

And it still includes the Ten Commandments for example "do not take God's name in vain" still remains.

 

[1stcenturylady]

And it still includes the Ten Commandments for example "do not take God's name in vain" still remains.

If you loved God with all your heart, soul and strength, wouldn't you honor everything about Him, including His name? Do you really need a LAW to tell you not to do what you would not do naturally anyway with your new spirit? That is the difference between a schoolmaster and a new heart. Jesus sending the Holy Spirit to us was a far better covenant than tablets of stone. We are no longer under your law, but under the grace of God, which is His power.

Acts 4:33 "And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all."

According to the Hebrew writing style of doubles, we see here that grace and power are the same thing. Grace was only unmerited favor to us in coming to Christ in the first place, drawing us while we were yet sinners. But then Jesus gives us His power that took the place of LAW. Through this power we are dead to sin (Romans 6). This power of God is our inheritance from the will and testament of Jesus to us that came into effect once He died. Therefore, this covenant is based on His blood. That is why the sign of the New Covenant - the New Will and Testament, is THE CUP, representing His blood. “This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.” The Old Covenant's sign, remembering the Sabbath, is fulfilled in Christ through His blood. We can now rest in Him, as we walk in His Spirit. Remembering the Sabbath is not the sign of the New Covenant, you can't have two, thus has been done away with. And in it's place is Jesus, the substance and center of our rest, trust, faith, righteousness, and hope.

 

[stuart lawrence]

It is true, love fulfills the law, as it did under the OC, but they still had law.

If you only have a law of love, and not specific law written on your mind and placed on your heart, when you sin, you can only be conscious you haven't loved as you should
IE
You commit adultery. You won't be conscious you committed sin by committing the act of adultery. You will simply be conscious you sinned by not loving as you should.
That of course is ridiculous. So individual law is written on your mind and placed on your heart