Communion/Eucharist/Lord's Supper

[Big Drew]

But Christ did NOT request that his disciples do it on any particular schedule. And, as for him setting some "example," he only celebrated the Passover meal one yearly.

Do you believe it to just be a matter of personal preference then?

 

[Big Drew]

I think we all need to review Paul's words with regards to the LORD's table. I think we do forget with the routine that GOD has called us to HIS table. HE has made it so that we can come

It's the LORD's Passover and we were told to celebrate the Passover as a lasting ordinance

Shouldn't we come to the table?
Shouldnt we celebrate with thanksgiving the Lord's Passover meal?

Not because we are worthy
But because HE is

We do celebrate this in memory of what HE has done for us

His sacrifice by HIS BODY opened a way for us to come into HIS PRESENCE

So we're to continue having the Passover meal and not necessarily taking Communion? Am I understanding you correctly?

 

[JoeP222w]

The scriptures teach us to do this as often as we assemble

Please provide the scripture that says this.

 

[Big Drew]

Please provide the scripture that says this.

I believe we are taught by the example of the church in Acts...it doesn't explicitly say that we should, this is just something I have picked up on.

 

[HenryM]

Whatever your faith group calls it...

The main thing I miss from my days in the Episcopal Church is partaking of Communion every Sunday. In the evangelical churches I've attended over the last 16 years they only have communion once a month, or some only once a quarter...although, the one Pentecostal Holiness church I was a member of for a few years, the pastor became convicted of this and we started having Communion every Sunday.

The scriptures teach us to do this as often as we assemble...so why do so many evangelical churches not follow the Lord's instruction on this?

You don't need church's permission to eat Jesus' bread. And if you want to do it within a group, you don't need church's permission to gather with friends, in your house.

 

[Big Drew]

You don't need church's permission to eat Jesus' bread. And if you want to do it within a group, you don't need church's permission to gather with friends, in your house.

Agreed. The point to the OP though, is why have so many churches rejected the practice?

 

[miknik5]

So we're to continue having the Passover meal and not necessarily taking Communion? Am I understanding you correctly?

No. Why would we do that

Even Paul said you come to the table as if you hadn't eaten. No one is gracious towards one another. One eats before the other. Shouldn't you all have eaten at your own houses


Of course I am paraphrasing but eating of the LORD's PASSOVER reminds us and keeps ever before us what we began in. That CHRIST laid down the LIFE so that what was dead (we were all dead in our sins and trespasses and separated from GOD) might be made alive to GOD in
THE SON and that no one has LIFE in themselves if they do not "eat" of the LORD's PASSOVER

 

[miknik5]

So we're to continue having the Passover meal and not necessarily taking Communion? Am I understanding you correctly?

Communion. You are fellowshipping in the LORD. And when two or three are gathered in
HIS NAME, there also is HE !

 

[Albion]

Do you believe it to just be a matter of personal preference then?

Not exactly. I just don't think that there's any mandate in Scripture for weekly communion. Frankly, I probably prefer it; but for those folks (in Anglican churches, for example) who think that alternating Holy Communion with Morning Prayer, week by week, is a good system, I'd agree that it has some logic to it and deserves to be respected. IMO, 'once a quarter only' has almost nothing to recommend it, however, even if we take account of those people who think that too frequent Holy Communion can make communicants begin to take the sacrament for granted. That's a weak argument in the first place, I believe.

 

[HenryM]

Agreed. The point to the OP though, is why have so many churches rejected the practice?

Churches are divided (churches as organizations, not regular congregation). Rejection of Jesus' message starts from there, since love is not about division. Maybe the real, or full, answer why churches reject Word of God in this or that particular way is rather unpleasant.

There's a voice in Revelation that comes from heaven and says:

"Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins or contract any of her plagues.
For her sins are piled up to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities."

Those words are as damning as possible. Imagine - sins piled up to heaven. As I understand it, those words are about churches (as organizations, not regular congregation). Maybe one particular church more than the others, but I guess others are not in the clear either.

 

[Big Drew]

Not exactly. I just don't think that there's any mandate in Scripture for weekly communion. Frankly, I probably prefer it; but for those folks (in Anglican churches, for example) who think that alternating Holy Communion with Morning Prayer, week by week, is a good system, I'd agree that it has some logic to it and deserves to be respected. IMO, 'once a quarter only' has almost nothing to recommend it, however, even if we take account of those people who think that too frequent Holy Communion can make communicants begin to take the sacrament for granted. That's a weak argument in the first place, I believe.

I agree...I think the opposite is true, that the less often it's observed the more taken for granted it is. That may have to do with the fact that those churches that take communion less often simply look at it symbolically however...and I believe once you do that you miss what it's really about.

 

[Big Drew]

Churches are divided (churches as organizations, not regular congregation). Rejection of Jesus' message starts from there, since love is not about division. Maybe the real, or full, answer why churches reject Word of God in this or that particular way is rather unpleasant.

There's a voice in Revelation that comes from heaven and says:

"Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins or contract any of her plagues.
For her sins are piled up to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities."

Those words are as damning as possible. Imagine - sins piled up to heaven. As I understand it, those words are about churches (as organizations, not regular congregation). Maybe one particular church more than the others, but I guess others are not in the clear either.

This is a good point. Do you think there is a visible church then? Or are there true followers in most churches?

 

[miknik5]

This is a good point. Do you think there is a visible church then? Or are there true followers in most churches?

Mixed in amongst the pews of every outward denominational church are those who know who and what they worship

And those who simply do lip service to THE NAME

 

[Big Drew]

Mixed in amongst the pews of every outward denominational church are those who know who and what they worship

And those who simply do lip service to THE NAME

This makes much more sense now that you edited, LOL...I was like trying to get into Jedi mode to figure out what Yoda was saying before.

I agree 100 % with this statement.

 

[HenryM]

Do you think there is a visible church then? Or are there true followers in most churches?

I don't know most churches, but my guess is that all churces are fallen (at least to some degree) as we are all fallen. I alternate in view of how many people who live today will go to Heaven. These days, I don't know if it's the mood or additional insights, but my guess is... not favorable, to put it that way. I used to see Hell as exclusive place for bad people. Now I increasingly see Heaven as exclusive place for those who are really pure in heart. What's your take?

 

[miknik5]

This makes much more sense now that you edited, LOL...I was like trying to get into Jedi mode to figure out what Yoda was saying before.

I agree 100 % with this statement.

I went back thankfully and said whaaat?

 

[Widlast]

Whatever your faith group calls it...

The main thing I miss from my days in the Episcopal Church is partaking of Communion every Sunday. In the evangelical churches I've attended over the last 16 years they only have communion once a month, or some only once a quarter...although, the one Pentecostal Holiness church I was a member of for a few years, the pastor became convicted of this and we started having Communion every Sunday.

The scriptures teach us to do this as often as we assemble...so why do so many evangelical churches not follow the Lord's instruction on this?

All I have to say on this is:
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you have no life in you.

 

[Albion]

All I have to say on this is:
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you have no life in you.

Well, you must know what the rejoinder is. Christ used a lot of analogies. He called his followers sheep. He said he was a door...and a vine. With the Lord's Supper, it is possible to defend all sorts of POVs by quoting those same words and those he used on Holy Thursday--Transubstantiation, Consubstantiation, spiritual Real Presence, and on and on.

 

[Widlast]

Well, you must know what the rejoinder is. Christ used a lot of analogies. He called his followers sheep. He said he was a door...and a vine. With the Lord's Supper, it is possible to defend all sorts of POVs by quoting those same words and those he used on Holy Thursday--Transubstantiation, Consubstantiation, spiritual Real Presence, and on and on.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believes on me has everlasting life.

48I am that bread of life.
49Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
50This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
51I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live forever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
52The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
53Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you have no life in you.
54Whosoever eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, has eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56He that eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, dwells in me, and I in him.
57As the living Father has sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eats me, even he shall live by me.
58This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eats of this bread shall live forever.

Pretty straight forward. It is the doctrine of ALL the original churches, the Eucharist IS the body of Christ.
Unless you eat of it Jesus the Christ has no part in you.

 

[Mountainmike]

One important thing to pick up on as regards the eucharist, is that in the ancient language the word used for "eat" means literally "gnaw" not consume, more generally: deliberately chosen to leave those hearing it in no doubt, he really did mean eat his flesh, which was an anathema to jews.
Thats why they were all so offended at the synagogue at Capernaum. After the biblical reference from john 6 , in the verses after many of his followers left,
and instead of call them back our Lord simply asked Peter "will you go too?", to which Peter replies - where would we go?

Our Lord could easily have explained symbolism to stop them leaving , but not a bit of it, he let them leave if they did not like the idea of eating real flesh and drinking real blood. So.. A valid eucharist really is the flesh and blood of our Lord, it is not just spiritual or memorial.

That is why Paul says in a rhetorical question "is it not the flesh and blood of our lord" and that to take the eucharist unworthily was to "eat and drink judgement on yourself"

In early writings we also know the practice of the eucharist - seen for example in ignatius Letter to smyrneans ( he and polycarp were disciples of and taught by John the apostle) , that to BE a valid eucharist it must be conducted by a (succession) bishop or his appointee.

It is also why the romans considered early christians cannibals, because they had heard they were "eating the flesh and blood"

So once you have a true understanding of eucharist, as practiced at catholic mass...who would not want to take it as often as possible!
It is heaven union with earth, our lord really present there, the source and summit of our faith.

And for those interested in science there is a large amount of credible forensic evidence analysed by proper forensic labs, now from the eucharistic miracles of such as tixtla, buenos aireis, sokolka, and more recently legnica that bread really does become heart mycorardium , we know to be living tissue because of white cells also which show forensic evidence of severe beating or so the pathologists say.

As someone who travelled from anglican roots, through various evangelical sects to come home to catholic church because of study of early church - it amazed me how little notice evangelical sects take of scripture - the bible bashers use it as a weapon against others, not a guide for life. There is almost no scripture in their services, and the eucharist is infrequent, very watered down and half hearted using such as crackers and juice, thrown away at the end!. Indeed surprisingly of all the services the catholic mass has the most scripture by far...the entire mass is wall to wall bible quotations, with liturgy recognisable from early church writings.