Should Genesis be taken literally?

[The Times]

To say this is to either lie or demonstrate ignorance. Nobody - no one - outside of the creationist camp will agree with this. While forums like these offer the potential for constructive discourse, the freedom for anyone to post whatever they want (as long as they do not abuse forum rules) allows for the possibility of the most egregious nonsense to be aired. Fair enough - people should have the right to express their views no matter how ill-informed and outright wacky they may be.

But if people are going to be allowed to lie or to demonstrate staggering ignorance, those who know better should also have the right to call them on this.


The theory of evolution does not deal with the very origins of life, so your statement here is misleading.

Evilution is a lie!
Prove otherwise.

You are on a Christian forum promoting a god who creates order out of chaos which is an anti gospel message.

You should be the one who needs to look closely at forum rules.

A loving and perfect God never creates order out of chaos, which is what EVIL-ution is.

The evolution god who creates order out of chaos through the millions of death cycles needed to get it right, is the god of athiesm. This god is Satan aka Lucifer.

When you speak, please keep it real and clean. Clean with a capital C.

 

[The Times]

If anyone supports alchemy and Evilution they don't support God and also reject the Genesis account.

If you truly believe that the loving, righteous and perfect God of the Holy Bible would create order out of chaos through countless sufferings of lifeforms not quite there, then you are found to lie about God because God said....

24Jesus replied, “Are you not in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God?25When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.26Now about the dead rising—have you not read in the Book of Moses, in the account of the burning bush, how God said to him, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’ ? 27He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You are badly mistaken!”

So let all men be called liars and Jesus Christ be TRUTHFUL.

Also what did God say every time he created something.....

Just in Genesis 1 alone you have God after every day saying that what he did was perfect. Seven times for every day of the week he said that what he did the first time was perfect.

Therefore let all men be liars and God be TRUTHFUL.

 

[Speedwell]

So you do believe that the early church did believe in the verbal plenary etc inspiration of Scripture? Hmm.. it didn't sound like it from the many discussions we've had.

No, I do not believe any such thing. There are a number of different theories of divine inspiration which have been entertained by the Church. Plenary Verbal Inspiration is only one of them and it is a relatively late development.

It's interesting you mention the kind of history. There are only three options to choose from. Either it is allegory and the events never actually occurred or its actual history and the events occurred exactly as stated or its false history with perhaps real people but a made up stories surrounding them. Like Washington and the cherry tree. There isn't anything else. The thing is you need some evidence that it wasn't actual history and everything is false. And there isn't any.

I am astonished by that and don't know quite how to respond. Did you actually learn it in school, or did you skip the class and just make something up? Do you think other creationists believe something similar? That would certainly explain a lot.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Do you really believe in Evolution?

If by that you are asking if I am really of the opinion that all life is of common descent and the many species today are resulting from changes from an original simple form of life . . . yes.

If by that you are asking if evolution is my source of salvation and eternal life . . . no, that is what Jesus gives me.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

The vaccinations to prevent outbreaks is what I was talking about. I vaccinate my children for known diseases. God has used man and gave him increasing of knowledge to be for the betterment of man.

Evolution is not a science, evolution like alchemy is psuedo science that has absolutely no benefit to man. On the other hand God would create an environment to sustain and to benefit man.

Science denial doesn't do anything but delay the acceptance of reality.

You will probably go to your grave out of touch with reality like this but following generations won't be so stubborn.

 

[The Times]

Evolution is a religion of Atheism and it has no place within the Christian faith.

Evolution is an attack on God's character and many pundants of Evolution declare that life was created by....

a god who is cruel, wasteful, stupid and deceitful and therefore the god of evolution theory is not THE GOD of the Holy Bible.

We need to differentiate between the god of evolution and the God of the Bible. The God of the Holy Bible is not just loving but is LOVE.

5They are of the world. That is why they speak from the world’s perspective, and the world listens to them. 6We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us; whoever is not from God does not listen to us. That is how we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of deception.
7Beloved, let us love one another, because love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. (1 John 4:5-8)

The Genesis account must be read as a factual text type that is a factual recount of why, how, when and where God created all things, that he declared perfect the first time. God did not create failed attempts of life through millions upon millions of death cycles repetitions until he eventually got it right. This concept is unfounded in scripture.

Either you are with God or against him. If you side with the world and their evolution theory, then you have been conscripted against God.

Evolution is the religion of Athiesm. It has nothing to do with Christianity.

 

[rjs330]

No, I do not believe any such thing. There are a number of different theories of divine inspiration which have been entertained by the Church. Plenary Verbal Inspiration is only one of them and it is a relatively late development. I am astonished by that and don't know quite how to respond. Did you actually learn it in school, or did you skip the class and just make something up? Do you think other creationists believe something similar? That would certainly explain a lot.

Please give me another alternative. Interested. Either the events described in Genesis happened as described or they didn't. Is there another alternative? If they didn't happen as described then what are all the alternatives? I'm curious.

 

[The Times]

Science denial doesn't do anything but delay the acceptance of reality.

You will probably go to your grave out of touch with reality like this but following generations won't be so stubborn.

The brainwashing of generations with the evolution theory that was embraced by the likes of Stalin and Karl Marx, is going to be halted. There are preventative measures that God had put in place, foreseeing the destruction of his creation by Atheists who push the world from homosexual agenda to transgender agenda to Transhumanist agenda.

God will literally ROCK their world soon, God willing!

The only ones going to their graves who are out of touch with God's truth are those clinging to man's fantasies. A fantasy will only serve as a fantasy for so long, until reality reigns on the decieved and decievers, the nightmare that follows. There is a world of pain awaiting those who have attacked God's character, his Holy Image.

I only pray that they realise their shortcomings, because God will no longer remain silent and He will show who is BOSS.

God's intention to call it a day was never to contend with his enemies, because to him they are like insignificant flies. The reason why God will act is because his elect are threatened and one thing that God will not tolerate is an attack on his only begotten Son's Church.

Wait and watch friend.

 

[JacksBratt]

One of the characteristics of a literal statement is, it turns out to be either true or false

If a statement turns out to be false, then it did not come from God.

If your literal interpretations lead you to believe the earth is only about 6000 years old and each species was created seperately without evolution, then your interpretations are false. Because we know, now, the earth is billions of years in age and all earthly life came from a single ancestral source through evolution.

Your faith, then, is proven wrong.

Your only choice, in order to retain a belief in the Bible that is grounded in reality as we know it, is to accept the Genesis account as true in the sense of a parable, or a metaphor, or as an allegory . . . call it what you will.

Otherwise, you force the scriptures to be false, and I for one choose not to do that, and I implore you to also not do that.

You say:
"If your literal interpretations lead you to believe the earth is only about 6000 years old and each species was created seperately without evolution, then your interpretations are false."
There is no proof of this statement. It is your opinion.

You say:
"One of the characteristics of a literal statement is, it turns out to be either true or false"

Evolution is not proven to be true... that is why it is just a theory. Also, the literal Genesis has not been proven to be false. Upon your death, you may be surprised to see it proven true.

You use these statements as if they are fact. Yet, they are not.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

You say:
"If your literal interpretations lead you to believe the earth is only about 6000 years old and each species was created seperately without evolution, then your interpretations are false."
There is no proof of this statement. It is your opinion.

Lots of evidence supports evolution. For example, you bear in your body ear wiggling muscles, of no use to you. But evidence you are descended from a previous species that could actually, usefully, move its ears. That's
only one of thousands of pieces of evidence for evolution.

You say:

"One of the characteristics of a literal statement is, it turns out to be either true or false"

Evolution is not proven to be true... that is why it is just a theory. Also, the literal Genesis has not been proven to be false. Upon your death, you may be surprised to see it proven true.

You use these statements as if they are fact. Yet, they are not.

You YEC types keep bandying words around like "that is why it is just a theory" as if that actually made sense. Evolution is not just a theory, it really happened, so it is a fact. There is also a theory that describes why, scientifically, it happened.

Your continued choice to remain out of touch with reality will be ignored by scientists and will gradually fade from the memory of mankind over the generations, should our Lord tarry.

 

[JacksBratt]

One of the characteristics of a literal statement is, it turns out to be either true or false

If a statement turns out to be false, then it did not come from God.

If your literal interpretations lead you to believe the earth is only about 6000 years old and each species was created seperately without evolution, then your interpretations are false. Because we know, now, the earth is billions of years in age and all earthly life came from a single ancestral source through evolution.

Your faith, then, is proven wrong.

Your only choice, in order to retain a belief in the Bible that is grounded in reality as we know it, is to accept the Genesis account as true in the sense of a parable, or a metaphor, or as an allegory . . . call it what you will.

Otherwise, you force the scriptures to be false, and I for one choose not to do that, and I implore you to also not do that.

Let me ask you this....

What is the difference in the writings of the Genesis account and the account of the life, death and resurrection of our Lord and savior. What are the indicators in style, wordage, technique or what ever that indicate that one is allegory and one is factual?

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Evolution is a religion of Atheism and it has no place within the Christian faith.

Boy are you out of touch! Evolution isn't religion, its just nature. Christianity is about truth and evolution happens to be true.

Evolution is an attack on God's character and many pundants of Evolution declare that life was created by....
a god who is cruel, wasteful, stupid and deceitful and therefore the god of evolution theory is not THE GOD of the Holy Bible.
We need to differentiate between the god of evolution and the God of the Bible. The God of the Holy Bible is not just loving but is LOVE.

God's character will survive what God actually did, which was create the current variety of life by means of evolution.

Look, we can share contrary assertions all day. But in the end, I have evidence and you don't.

 

[The Times]

You say:
"If your literal interpretations lead you to believe the earth is only about 6000 years old and each species was created seperately without evolution, then your interpretations are false."
There is no proof of this statement. It is your opinion.

You say:
"One of the characteristics of a literal statement is, it turns out to be either true or false"

Evolution is not proven to be true... that is why it is just a theory. Also, the literal Genesis has not been proven to be false. Upon your death, you may be surprised to see it proven true.

You use these statements as if they are fact. Yet, they are not.

They seem to apply a complete scientific dictionary of terms to try and create an illusion that evolution is true. They can use scientific terms until the cows come home, it still doesn't make evolution true.

I call evolution a fantasy dreamed up in text books only. It makes a good Hollywood script like Narnia and Jumanji worlds, that are divorced of all evidence and reality.

 

[The Times]

Goodluck with the evolution nonsense. Please count me out, because earth and life was made in 6 literal days, over and out!

I believe in the miracles Jesus did, they didn't take a healing time frame, but were instant.

God spoke into existence all things He created.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

They seem to apply a complete scientific dictionary of terms to try and create an illusion that evolution is true. They can use scientific terms until the cows come home, it still doesn't make evolution true.

I call evolution a fantasy dreamed up in text books only. It makes a good Hollywood script like Narnia and Jumanji worlds, that are divorced of all evidence and reality.

What reveals evolution to be true is not, of course, the words of scientists using scientific terms. It is the evidence. For example, you have that famous broken vitamin c gene you share with other primates, only possible if there was a genetic defect in the earliest such primate and we are all its descendants, after the flesh.

 

[JacksBratt]

Lots of evidence supports evolution. For example, you bear in your body ear wiggling muscles, of no use to you. But evidence you are descended from a previous species that could actually, usefully, move its ears. That's
only one of thousands of pieces of evidence for evolution.

Wow, I wish someone had of told me before that my wiggling ears was proof of evolution... I would have believed long ago... That synches it.

Seriously? That's proof for you?

There is no proof. There is speculation, extrapolation and assumption. All designed to remove God from the process.

You YEC types keep bandying words around like "that is why it is just a theory" as if that actually made sense. Evolution is not just a theory, it really happened, so it is a fact. There is also a theory that describes why, scientifically, it happened.

Is evolution testable, observable or repeatable.... Nope. Not science, not fact.

Your continued choice to remain out of touch with reality will be ignored by scientists and will gradually fade from the memory of mankind over the generations, should our Lord tarry.

Your continued choice to cherry pick the biblical scriptures and believe the supernatural events that are necessary for your salvation and discarding the ones that contradict your attachment to the religion of evolution will bring you prostrate when you face your creator.

 

[HenryM]

Wow, I wish someone had of told me before that my wiggling ears was proof of evolution...

Jacks, do you feel like me, that after spending some time on this thread you need a good washing? I did. Good scrubbing to take away the dirt. There's no conversation with some, unfortunately, as they are God's too, and you get mud on you when dealing with them. But it's ok, we can take it off.

And if I could say so, they seem to not take account of God's words seriously. How do you think they take yours or mine words then?

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Wow, I wish someone had of told me before that my wiggling ears was proof of evolution... I would have believed long ago... That synches it.

Seriously? That's proof for you?

Not all by itself. There is multitudes of evidence, of which that is only one. But let's think about that. The ear wiggling muscles are actually there. Do you actually wiggle your ears? I do . . .

There is no proof. There is speculation, extrapolation and assumption. All designed to remove God from the process.

You want to see speculation? its where you say "all designed to remove God from the process". That is speculation, and unfounded. If you had actually been paying attention to the writings of scientists, where they reveal their heart, you would see they are merely trying to find the truth.

Is evolution testable, observable or repeatable.... Nope. Not science, not fact.

It is testable. It is observable. And observations of fossils are repeated over and over, researchers are going out in the field gathering more evidence on a regular basis, that is repeating the science, as well as continuing with DNA analysis, continuing with genetic studies of all kinds, your accusations are only possible for those ignorant of the activities of scientists. Well, there probably are a few professional anti-evolution folks who cynically lie on a regular basis, but most YEC types are merely sincerely mistaken.

Your continued choice to cherry pick the biblical scriptures and believe the supernatural events that are necessary for your salvation and discarding the ones that contradict your attachment to the religion of evolution will bring you prostrate when you face your creator.

I face my Creator every day.

 

[HenryM]

God will literally ROCK their world soon... Wait and watch friend.

That's 100% true. It will happen. Curtain will fall and deceit will be exposed. Many will be brought to their knees. It will be one of the, if not the most glorious event in history of mankind on Earth.

 

[Big Drew]

This is not where I wanted this thread to go at all.