Mysteries of the Brain

[Chriliman]

Sorry! I should have checked to see who you were responding to. My mistake.

No problem.

 

[Yennora]

I find it interesting that ID/creationists think God is found in our ignorance.

If something is a mystery, then it means that no one knows how it works. If you don't know how something works, then it can't be evidence for whatever you want to believe.

You committed a fallacy which is confusing the "How" and "Why" questions.

How it happens? Science.
Why it happens? God.

How do we have seasons? Earth-tilt.
Why do we have seasons? No purpose?

No purpose for the 9.8ms^-2 acceleration due to gravitional force, no purpose due to Earth-Sun distance and difference in masses, No purpose for our symmetry, No purpose that we are the only specy that own the power to dominate through our unique brains, also no purpose that this intelligence was not found into the bodies of Elephants or Cats, or even fish, yet it was put into a body that is able to manipulate that intelligence perfectly, no purpose for the laws of physics themselves, no purpose for existence?

I agree that the religious commit a fallacy when they answer the How with God, but not the Why.

 

[KCfromNC]

But what about symmetry? You may impose that physical symmetry is a human mind product too, but that doesn't explain its appliance in reality, here we come to reality out of human mind, same logic applies to mathematics, and its real life appliance, how can human mind products achieve that amount of accuracy when it comes to reality? Are they truly invented by the human mind or maybe... discovered?

Huh?

 

[KCfromNC]

Or God intended for us to exist in order to fulfill His will of overcoming all evil.

Nope, that's not it.

 

[Yennora]

Looked up DMT and came across this:


DMT naturally occurs in the brain.Image



Dimethyltryptamine (DMT) is a powerful psychedelic drug, and a type of tryptamine alkaloid. It is a naturally occurring substance, found in various plants and animals, and in small quantities in the human brain, where its function is unknown. DMT is famous for its power. Though the psychedelic trip it creates only lasts 5 to 30 minutes when smoked, the effect is profound and remarkable, with the feeling that the user is transported to a completely different place, immersed in kaleidoscopic sounds and images. In its pure form, the drug is a white to yellow crystalline solid.

DMT has been consumed throughout history and into prehistory by indigenous peoples, especially in South America, where it is consumed during shamanic rituals and called ayhuasca. This is done by combining plant material that contains it with a monoamine oxide inhibitor, a special chemical that allows the drug to avoid digestion by the stomach and reach the bloodstream. Evidence of DMT consumption by indigenous peoples in South America stretches back to at least 2130 BC. A pipe made from puma bone of that age was tested positive for the substance. Smoking it would give the users visions and feelings that they associated with magical sources, putting them into contact with "spirits" they could consult on matters of plants, disease, etc.
What is DMT? (with pictures)

That is what i meant, why do they encounter a common reality though? Is there a possibility that this reality exists and is not only under the barriers of psychology?

 

[KCfromNC]

My post was in response to what KCfromNC said, which had nothing to do with the brain, but everything to do with badmouthing God.

You must have me confused with someone else - I'm not the one saying my god was responsible pain from phantom limbs.

 

[durangodawood]

...I agree that the religious commit a fallacy when they answer the How with God, but not the Why.

The "why" question may belong to the human mind alone, and not have any actual applicability to the universe.

 

[Loudmouth]

You committed a fallacy which is confusing the "How" and "Why" questions.

How it happens? Science.

I don't think I am confused. They are saying that natural processes are not the "how".

 

[Radrook]

That is what i meant, why do they encounter a common reality though? Is there a possibility that this reality exists and is not only under the barriers of psychology?

The hallucinations that hallucinatory drugs produce are dependent on how the human brain is hard wired. As humans we all share a similar brain structure. So why should we be surprised when a certain drug might produce a similar reaction in all of us? Please note that the phantom limb experience is triggered after amputation is a COMMON human brain reaction to amputation. So commonality of experience can simply mean a similar brain.

 

[Radrook]

I find it interesting that ID/creationists think God is found in our ignorance.

If something is a mystery, then it means that no one knows how it works. If you don't know how something works, then it can't be evidence for whatever you want to believe.

I never made that claim.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

List of unsolved problems in neuroscience - Wikipedia

Quite few of those now have plausible or partial explanations (e.g. memory).

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

... Please note that the phantom limb experience is triggered after amputation is a COMMON human brain reaction to amputation. So commonality of experience can simply mean a similar brain.

There is also the fact that all perceptual experience occurs in the brain, so whether the limb is present or absent, sensations from it are experienced in the brain and referred to the limb... The mapping for bodily sensations in the brain persists in the absence of the limb, so that area can still generate sensations.

You can fool the sensory mapping in the brain of an amputee using an illusion similar to the rubber hand illusion, by placing a mirror so as to make a reflection of the existing limb look like the missing limb. For subjects with a painful phantom 'clenched fist' sensation in the missing hand, clenching and relaxing the existing hand while looking at the reflection can provide welcome relief, as the brain matches its phantom limb sensation to the appearance of the illusory phantom limb replacement.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Why do we have seasons? No purpose?

No purpose for the 9.8ms^-2 acceleration due to gravitional force, no purpose due to Earth-Sun distance and difference in masses, No purpose for our symmetry, No purpose that we are the only specy that own the power to dominate through our unique brains, also no purpose that this intelligence was not found into the bodies of Elephants or Cats, or even fish, yet it was put into a body that is able to manipulate that intelligence perfectly, no purpose for the laws of physics themselves, no purpose for existence?

Yup, you got it (although the 9.8ms^-2 acceleration due to gravitional force, and the Earth-Sun distance and difference in masses are directly related (ask Newton), and the bit about "...it was put into a body that is able to manipulate that intelligence perfectly..." is misleading; the body and the intelligence co-evolved, so it's not remarkable that they complement each other. Oh, and the manipulation is good, but far from perfect).

 

[Chesterton]

That is what i meant, why do they encounter a common reality though? Is there a possibility that this reality exists and is not only under the barriers of psychology?

There are sometimes similarities in experiences but no evidence they actually experience a common reality.

 

[Yennora]

Yup, you got it (although the 9.8ms^-2 acceleration due to gravitional force, and the Earth-Sun distance and difference in masses are directly related (ask Newton), and the bit about "...it was put into a body that is able to manipulate that intelligence perfectly..." is misleading; the body and the intelligence co-evolved, so it's not remarkable that they complement each other. Oh, and the manipulation is good, but far from perfect).

Yes, i know they are related out of the formula F = (Gm1m2)/(d^2), but the Earth-Sun distance also affects the "livable" temperature, if we look at Venus, can we live there? Specially that it is believed that "We" evolved to adapt with the environment, but i cannot happen to see creatures that managed to evolve to adapt with Venus environment? Not even any other planet in our solar system... Doesn't that imply that there should be some fulfilled enviromental conditions for life to exist in the first place? But if that's the case then Natural Selection is not the only designer out there.. it is as splashing 500 billion color vessels on 500 billion blank boards and expecting to have the Mona Lisa on one of them.. also being far from perfect, how do you define perfect in the first place? Because if its definition is relative, then in relativity to every single species on earth, we have the most manipulative bodies, not only that, our sizes are related, we are not Giants that it would be impossible for the ressources to satisfy our needs and we are not tiny that it would be "impossible" for us to survive against large animals, and to manipulate the earth resources around us, i think if we were tiny only one rainy day would be enough to wipe us all of the face of the earth!

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Yes, i know they are related out of the formula F = (Gm1m2)/(d^2), but the Earth-Sun distance also affects the "livable" temperature, if we look at Venus, can we live there? Specially that it is believed that "We" evolved to adapt with the environment, but i cannot happen to see creatures that managed to evolve to adapt with Venus environment?

Of course we wouldn't expect life as we know it on Venus, so what? The weak anthropic principle states our (obvious) situation - life will inevitably find itself on a planet able to support life in a universe able to support life.

Not even any other planet in our solar system...

We don't know that yet. Mars may once have been hospitable to simple life, and there are moons of Saturn and Jupiter that have liquid water oceans that could conceivably support life. Not bad for a single solar system, and there are at least twenty extrasolar planets known to be in the habitable ('Goldilocks') zone of their stars. Analysis of the Kepler probe data estimate 40 billion Earth-size planets in habitable zones in the galaxy, and about 11 billion of those around sun-like stars.

Doesn't that imply that there should be some fulfilled enviromental conditions for life to exist in the first place?

Of course; liquid water is a requirement for life as we know it.

But if that's the case then Natural Selection is not the only designer out there.. it is as splashing 500 billion color vessels on 500 billion blank boards and expecting to have the Mona Lisa on one of them..

No, it really isn't. Liquid water is relatively common in the solar system, and see above for estimates of habitable planets.

...also being far from perfect, how do you define perfect in the first place?

As you were the one who used it, the question really is, how do you define it?

Because if its definition is relative...

In general usage 'perfect' isn't a relative term; it means an absolute, the best that it is possible to be. Our manipulative capabilities are not that (in fact we have built machines that can do better in some contexts).

..., then in relativity to every single species on earth, we have the most manipulative bodies, not only that, our sizes are related, we are not Giants that it would be impossible for the ressources to satisfy our needs and we are not tiny that it would be "impossible" for us to survive against large animals, and to manipulate the earth resources around us, i think if we were tiny only one rainy day would be enough to wipe us all of the face of the earth!

I'm afraid I can't make much sense of this; we evolved in competition with a bunch of other living creatures in a relatively hostile environment, so we are adapted in size and capabilities to survive under those conditions.

 

[Radrook]

Quite few of those now have plausible or partial explanations (e.g. memory).

Glad to know that we are progressing in those areas.

 

[Radrook]

The "why" question may belong to the human mind alone, and not have any actual applicability to the universe.

Religion is all about explaining the why.

 

[Radrook]

That is what i meant, why do they encounter a common reality though? Is there a possibility that this reality exists and is not only under the barriers of psychology?

That last part of your question is very intriguing since there are indications that electrons of our bodies disappear and reappear as if they are going elsewhere. Those electrons include the ones of our brains. Exactly where that elsewhere or elsewheres might be if in fact the exist they haven't been able to determine yet.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Religion is all about explaining the why.

Indeed.

That means, we can rephrase @durangodawood's statement as:

Religion may belong to the human mind alone, and not have any actual applicability to the universe