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Is Observing the 7th day Sabbath a Requirement for Salvation?

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corinth77777

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Certainly there are many born-again Christians that share many of his views - and they are sincere.

There were likely sincere Christians on both sides of the inquisition in the dark ages as well - no doubt. But the topic more along the lines of "What does the Word of God say" - because in the end that is what matters for all of use no matter which side we happen to be on in a given difference in POV.




Certainly -- it means using exegesis instead of eisegesis when doing sola scriptura testing of all doctrine and practice.

like these folks were doing in Acts 17:11 -- they were not even Christian and STILL they could read the Bible and get the point that Christianity was the right religion.

In Mark 7:6-13 Jesus was presenting full acceptance of scripture while the religious popular leadership was practicing eisegesis - scripture-bending.
I believe its not just what scriptures say They need to need to be interpreted.
The old testament speaks ofkeeping the law for ..righteousness

The new talks about the sabbath being a shadow...
So I cant just read the old....and say we are under the law for righteousness....when there were better promises...talked about in new.....
 
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BobRyan

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I find him to be sincere in heart...

Certainly there are many born-again Christians that share many of his views - and they are sincere.

There were likely sincere Christians on both sides of the inquisition in the dark ages as well - no doubt. But the topic more along the lines of "What does the Word of God say" - because in the end that is what matters for all of use no matter which side we happen to be on in a given difference in POV.


It's what does the word say , mean with correct interpretation..

Certainly -- it means using exegesis instead of eisegesis when doing sola scriptura testing of all doctrine and practice.

like these folks were doing in Acts 17:11 -- they were not even Christian and STILL they could read the Bible and get the point that Christianity was the right religion.

In Mark 7:6-13 Jesus was presenting full acceptance of scripture while the religious popular leadership was practicing eisegesis - scripture-bending.

I believe its not just what scriptures say They need to need to be interpreted.

Interpreted without the eisegetical 'bending' to fit a tradition-of-man agenda as Christ points out in Mark 7:6-13

1 John 2
26 These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you. 27 As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.

The entire point of exegesis is to admit that man-made-tradition tries to deceive and only careful steps taken to accept the Word of God even when it conflicts with preference and church leadership will honor Christ. As Jesus points out in Mark 7:6-13


The old testament speaks ofkeeping the law for ..righteousness

The new talks about the sabbath being a shadow...
So I cant just read the old....and say we are under the law for righteousness....when there were better promises...talked about in new.....

Let's start with the incredibly "Bible obvious".

We are not to take God's name in vain.

Just as God said in Exodus 20:7... turns out it is still true to day.

The other incredibly obvious Bible detail is

"SIN IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4 which is STILL true even in the NT.

These two points are irrefutable.

No rocket science here and the Bible not at all hard to read on these two points.


The third point is that Exegesis demands that we accept the intended meaning of the text and not "our own wishes and preferences".

So then what is Jeremiah's "intended meaning" for the term "LAW" when he defines the NEW Covenant as God "Writing His LAW on the heart and mind"?? What "LAW" would Jeremiah and his readers know about as the moral law of God?

If we care at all about the NEW Covenant we should answer this basic question objectively and accurately.
 
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corinth77777

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I admitt I Don't know much about 7th Day advents doctrine...only recall in a book I borrowed from my father..The kingdom of the cults..by Walter Martin...a little About Ellen White...and scape goat...and something that was suppose to happen on the sabbith which is the reason..I thought was the motive behind keeping it...

Myself...I didn't understand...why Jesus was giving laws in Matthew if He fulfilled it...until I read Dallas Willard book the Divine conspiracy...That they were not ...infact laws But rather as we come to live in his kingdom.... that we would become the people that naturally obey...

I Don't believe in keeping anything by the letter...but as I walk in accords with the leading of the spirit I am forgiven...and practice good habits as I practice transforming my mind to things of the spirit.......

We once walked..in accords to the world....now according to the spirit..........

The new Laws...are spiritual to me...like...The law of faith, the law of the life giving spirit, the law of love.......

This superceed......the law in the old........and we establish the law this way...not trying to keep the law letter for letter....

Its not good to mix law of Moses and faith...
Like I said I feel the bondage in this room.....

We keep the law of Liberty....Faith in Christ through the spirit
 
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corinth77777

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I admitt I Don't know much about 7th Day advents doctrine...only recall in a book I borrowed from my father..The kingdom of the cults..by Walter Martin...a little About Ellen White...and scape goat...and something that was suppose to happen on the sabbith which is the reason..I thought was the motive behind keeping it...

Myself...I didn't understand...why Jesus was giving laws in Matthew if He fulfilled it...until I read Dallas Willard book the Divine conspiracy...That they were not ...infact laws But rather as we come to live in his kingdom.... that we would become the people that naturally obey...

I Don't believe in keeping anything by the letter...but as I walk in accords with the leading of the spirit I am forgiven...and practice good habits as I practice transforming my mind to things of the spirit.......

We once walked..in accords to the world....now according to the spirit..........

The new Laws...are spiritual to me...like...The law of faith, the law of the life giving spirit, the law of love.......

This superceed......the law in the old........and we establish the law this way...not trying to keep the law letter for letter....

Its not good to mix law of Moses and faith...
Like I said I feel the bondage in this room.....

We keep the law of Liberty....Faith in Christ through the spirit
This sounds diff to me:

If by the spirit you put away the deeds of the flesh you shall live...

Rather than...keep the law by what you do and dont do by the flesh.

Becoming the person that naturally keeps the law...is recognize with "first make the inside of the cup clean" and the outside will be clean as well.
 
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corinth77777

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Romans 14 :23

But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.

So keeping the law to obtain righteousness...is?
The law is not of faith....

But there is The law of Faith...and within that faith in Jesus Christ...... Jesus fullfilled the law...of the prophets...

We can only get up to establishing the law through the law of faith.
And if you transgress the law of faith....it is sin. For there is a command to believe on the one He has sent......and we are told to remain in his love....keep believing, relying on Christ....not the law of the prophet..for its only through Christ...the inner workings of the heart do we establish the law of the prophet.....

So we don't establish the law by trying to keep it..It will happen ....after entering into his kingdom...where we learn and grow...into being like Christ....following..or being led by the spirit.

For those who are led by the spirit are sons of God....
And if we walk in the spirit as He is in the spirit the blood cleanses us from all unrighteousness......

1 John 1;7

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

What is righteousness? Christ or keeping the law
 
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corinth77777

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2 Corinthians

So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.

Keeping vs. Becoming

The law of the flesh according to scripture above? Temporay or eternal.....
Law of spirit? Temporary or eternal?

There is no boasting in Christ....
Thinking one is better because they keep a law and another doesn't....

This is pharasuetical....blocking the way for others into the kingdom...

If people could keep the law of the flesh by the flesh....then we wouldnt need a new covenant built on better promises.

People cant keep the law by the flesh....its bondage..keeps them with a guilty conscience....

And when u mix the 2....to obtain righteousness...thats what you get...Bondage...

Righteousness is by faith ......not by works of the law...

We can tell...when faith is not the sum total... When people judge, and boast
 
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corinth77777

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Certainly there are many born-again Christians that share many of his views - and they are sincere.

There were likely sincere Christians on both sides of the inquisition in the dark ages as well - no doubt. But the topic more along the lines of "What does the Word of God say" - because in the end that is what matters for all of use no matter which side we happen to be on in a given difference in POV.




Certainly -- it means using exegesis instead of eisegesis when doing sola scriptura testing of all doctrine and practice.

like these folks were doing in Acts 17:11 -- they were not even Christian and STILL they could read the Bible and get the point that Christianity was the right religion.

In Mark 7:6-13 Jesus was presenting full acceptance of scripture while the religious popular leadership was practicing eisegesis - scripture-bending.



Interpreted without the eisegetical 'bending' to fit a tradition-of-man agenda as Christ points out in Mark 7:6-13

1 John 2
26 These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you. 27 As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.

The entire point of exegesis is to admit that man-made-tradition tries to deceive and only careful steps taken to accept the Word of God even when it conflicts with preference and church leadership will honor Christ. As Jesus points out in Mark 7:6-13




Let's start with the incredibly "Bible obvious".

We are not to take God's name in vain.

Just as God said in Exodus 20:7... turns out it is still true to day.

The other incredibly obvious Bible detail is

"SIN IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4 which is STILL true even in the NT.

These two points are irrefutable.

No rocket science here and the Bible not at all hard to read on these two points.


The third point is that Exegesis demands that we accept the intended meaning of the text and not "our own wishes and preferences".

So then what is Jeremiah's "intended meaning" for the term "LAW" when he defines the NEW Covenant as God "Writing His LAW on the heart and mind"?? What "LAW" would Jeremiah and his readers know about as the moral law of God?

If we care at all about the NEW Covenant we should answer this basic question objectively and accurately.
Context:



3 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

"4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."


Corinth7
Why also? Could it be because they transgress, first the Law of Faith?...
..


"5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin."

Does it say under the Law there is no sin?
No, it says "in Him is no sin" Why? Could it be that because we walk in him[the light] our sins are forgiven? As scripture says?


6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Why does a person cease from sinning?[sinneth not] ? Because he is found living ...walking in[abideth] Him (in Christ).
Why because in Christ...those who believe are no longer under[marked by, judged by] the law for righteousnes.
Whoever sins without stopping has not came to Faith...they are those who still held under judgement of the law...for anything that is not of faith is sin...and the wages of sin is death.


7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
Where is the only place one can doeth righteousness? That place is in the one who is righteous...and the measure is Love


8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Who is he that commitheth[has not cease from continual sin...]? The Devil -for he is opposed to God...Did not everyone who came in through Adam's lineage born..under that ?
So..now the works will be destroyed through faith in Christ.


9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
So we know what commit sin is....believing the lie of Satan who transgressed the law of God from the very beginning opposing God walking in his own direction.
So once a man is born because they believeth the truth he cease from believing the lie of the devil....which means he ceased from continual sin that started with a lie [does not committ sin] .Once we have been cleansed we are righteous, Even if its a moment in time.
So now the problem is not the cleansing...but what we do after....that through the cleanse. We destroy the works of Satan...by obeying the spirit.....not the law...

Return later.......
My point is yes sin is said by definition to transgress the law.......and we Must conceed which comes through a fuller understanding..
Is that the...the law is not of faith....and not only does one stop being held under the penalty of the law at..faith......they also cease from their own works to enter this Peace.

Everyone is Dead until faith in Christ.
Because the passage mentions what sin is...doesnt imply we try to keep the law...It means the only way it is kept is through Christ....and yet if we fell to keep Christ.[have faith] we find ourselves held in judgement based on the law.



10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Here is the evidence...for the outcome of a true disciple from the Cleansed heart, is love.



11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
So we heard it and now we understand how we do it.......

And below we see Cain believed the lie of the devil...that you can do it your own way...lol
And the outcome of believing God..was righteousness...why? Because thats what looking to God brings..the outcome is righteous works...doing naturally what is pleasing to God.


12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.

14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
This is a statement of fact
Because a person who loves not only knows they've been changed.....but they desire to please the Lord based on the inner workings of the spirit...This is truly the Life[eternal], [abundant] when whats on the inside expresses itself on the outside.


15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

Yet here we see....one who still abiding in death...because they trangress the law of faith and thereby the law of God..fullfilled in Christ....so here...its not because He outright murdered..physically..but the fact..He disobeyed the law of faith ...which means his destiny is still death...and if He disobeyed Faith he also trangressed the whole law...and its just as murder..all holding the same destiny-is death [thats my thought here..study and obey for yourself]

A person is not living when they are dead
You can be of the walking/breathing- dead

Or the walking/breathing with life from above.




16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.

20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.


21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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You are obviously convinced in your own mind (or at least trying to convince yourself), so why are you posting on a SDA Discussion Zone forum trying to convince us of something we believe to the death? If you are seeking answers, we have given them to you but your spirit doesn't seem to be open to anything other than what you currently believe.

Will keep you in prayer but there's no need of you posting in this forum unless you are truly seeking for the answers we can give you from scripture.
 
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corinth77777

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You are obviously convinced in your own mind (or at least trying to convince yourself), so why are you posting on a SDA Discussion Zone forum trying to convince us of something we believe to the death? If you are seeking answers, we have given them to you but your spirit doesn't seem to be open to anything other than what you currently believe.

Will keep you in prayer but there's no need of you posting in this forum unless you are truly seeking for the answers we can give you from scripture.
Are you writing to me?...I was posting to another...I didnt know you were part of our correspond ing..until...now....
One who seeks only needs to prove what He seeks is proven or disproven....If you believe so heartedly then you should be able to answer...without doubt...How shall you bring truth to anyone...when as soon as they oppose a view you tell them get out!
But if I cause conflict...and am not wanted certainly i'll leave..But if one post back to me I shall stay...
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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Are you writing to me?...I was posting to another...I didnt know you were part of our correspond ing..until...now....
One who seeks only needs to prove what He seeks is proven or disproven....If you believe so heartedly then you should be able to answer...without doubt...How shall you bring truth to anyone...when as soon as they oppose a view you tell them get out!
But if I cause conflict...and am not wanted certainly i'll leave..But if one post back to me I shall stay...
You are posting in an Adventist Discussion forum which is the reason I chimed in.

A person that is truly seeking will respond to initial queries with some form of curiousity or interest to know more.... not rebuttals and debate.

If I were to go to the Catholics forum and ask questions about their beliefs, when I recieved answers from the Catholic perspective, should I then start to debate their theology and point out why they are wrong?

There are multiple forums on this board for a reason... for debate, I would suggest General Theology or Controversial Theology. People love to go around in circles all day long over there.

If I am mistaken and you do really want to know about our denominations beliefs and seriously look in to what we can show through scriptures and historical account, then by all means there are many that will assist you.
 
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corinth77777

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You are posting in an Adventist Discussion forum which is the reason I chimed in.

A person that is truly seeking will respond to initial queries with some form of curiousity or interest to know more.... not rebuttals and debate.

If I were to go to the Catholics forum and ask questions about their beliefs, when I recieved answers from the Catholic perspective, should I then start to debate their theology and point out why they are wrong?

There are multiple forums on this board for a reason... for debate, I would suggest General Theology or Controversial Theology. People love to go around in circles all day long over there.

If I am mistaken and you do really want to know about our denominations beliefs and seriously look in to what we can show through scriptures and historical account, then by all means there are many that will assist you.
Just ignore me....if someone knows their denominational teaching and would like to respond...then I will respond back.....I learn myself by arguing my own views...however...if you are disturb by my posting...then that may be best...from what I read..the post was started by non SDA.......One must argue or question, or be critical of a view until tested or proved by the word...Yet have I argued anything....I know this not....
We learn through correction....
So I suggest you ignore me...its not my intent to upset you...if u see the need...that understanding and questions will be harmful to you...then by all means you should protect yourself....
 
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corinth77777

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Second thought...I didn't come into this forum by looking under subject headings....but certainly...if I'm being offensive because I ask questions or bring up videos...to help me understand a view...or point out a view point...and it bothers folks...
The person posting can post privately.......

I dont think I look at one side....nor am I going to act as if I accept something just because you hold to it...
 
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Shibolet

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Bob S... have you ever considered that the keeping of the Sabbath day wasn't an issue and therefore not mentioned is because it was understood that the disciples would gather in the synagogues or homes to teach the people the Sabbath commandment... on the Sabbath.

Of course, there are the numerous texts to consider that speak about Jesus, our example in all things, honouring the Sabbath... even in death He honoured the rest and rose the day after teaching us that the Sabbath IS post cross. There is nothing in the scriptures that honestly refutes the Sabbath Command. You will admit that the other nine are still in effect, as they are written.

I am sorry that you never experienced the blessings that are received in surrendering to God and communing with Him on His Holy day. Sabbath was made for man, not the Jews only, because of the blessings it entails for all those that love the Lord. " If you love me, keep my Commandments"... He uttered those Commandments at creation,He etched them in stone with His own finger and He lived them during His perfect life... does that sounds like something that could changed without incontrovertible scriptural proof that is was changed?

Also consider this... if the Commandments could be "abolished" or changed in anyway, why did Christ have to come and die? Just change the Commandments to what the people could easily keep... I mean, it's not like the Decalogue represents God's character, right? That would mean that God's character can change just like those Commandments.
 
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BobRyan

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Bob S... have you ever considered that the keeping of the Sabbath day wasn't an issue and therefore not mentioned is because it was understood that the disciples would gather in the synagogues or homes to teach the people the Sabbath commandment... on the Sabbath.

Of course, there are the numerous texts to consider that speak about Jesus, our example in all things, honouring the Sabbath... even in death He honoured the rest and rose the day after teaching us that the Sabbath IS post cross. There is nothing in the scriptures that honestly refutes the Sabbath Command. You will admit that the other nine are still in effect, as they are written.

I am sorry that you never experienced the blessings that are received in surrendering to God and communing with Him on His Holy day. Sabbath was made for man, not the Jews only, because of the blessings it entails for all those that love the Lord. " If you love me, keep my Commandments"... He uttered those Commandments at creation,He etched them in stone with His own finger and He lived them during His perfect life... does that sounds like something that could changed without incontrovertible scriptural proof that is was changed?

Also consider this... if the Commandments could be "abolished" or changed in anyway, why did Christ have to come and die? Just change the Commandments to what the people could easily keep... I mean, it's not like the Decalogue represents God's character, right? That would mean that God's character can change just like those Commandments.

Amen!
 
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Shibolet

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Romans 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Hi Cori! Paul said that Jesus was the end of the Law because he, Paul, had an aversion to the Law. He also said that he had been released from the Law. (Romans 7:6) Therefore, taken from his claim, he was a man without law.
Now, if you had a chance to ask Jesus if he was the end of the Law. I bet he would say that the Law would end only after heaven and earth passed away. (Mat. 5:17-19) And I guess he was serious because, in another occasion, he said that, to achieve salvation one must listen to "Moses" aka the Law, if you read Luke 16:29-31.
 
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