Why do people like Seventh-day Adventist and Adventist doctrine?

[mark wright]

Why would you keep quoting this supposed member again and again like this is some official position of the church? Do this is a form of false witness. I doubt the person you are quoting is the president of the Church or any of the conferences. If I found a member of your church that said something that was embarrassing that contradicted the official beliefs of your denomination and then quoted it again and again you would think that was unfair. Why do you then think it's fair for you to do the same. The Adventist beliefs are published on the internet and are easy to find. Go look them up and stop pretending this alleged quotation id some form of official position of the church.

I think we can all agree that bearing false witness is a sin. Even those that believe they are not bound to the ten commandments agree bearing false witness is a sin.

I chatted to an sda member a couple of years ago. I told them I knew I would go to heaven. They hada worried look on their face and replied:
I cant say that.
What they meant was. They did not know if they would well enough obey the TC to attain heaven. Every sda I have personally met pretty much agrees with the statement you referred to

 

[mark wright]

The idea of keeping the law written in your mind and heart is not only new covenant it was part of the old covenant as well. In fact, when they talked about it in the NT the authors are quoting the OT. When God gave Israel the ten commandments he knew they could not keep them. His expectation for them was to keep them written in their hearts just as you stated. Jeremiah 31:33

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
~ Jeremiah 31:33 KJV.​

I guess we can agree that this part has not changed. So the important part for us is to determine what does that mean. It obviously does not mean that we can ignore them or not keep them. Writing them on our heart means we accept them as principles to guide our lives, we make them a part of us. It's much bigger than just following them or trying to.

Jeremiahs prophecy specifically relates to the new covenant

 

[Alawishis]

Wheras I agree people in all denominations believe in a works based Gospel, having been to an SDA church I would say they stress following the letter to a greater degree than I personally have found elsewhere.
And their theology on the specific point that sets them apart is clearly at fault if one understands the New Covenant. If you sin under this covenant you must have heartfelt conviction you sin when you do so. Obviously they do not understand that

Then you've never stepped into a Catholic church, or spent much time with the JWs.

I understand where you are coming from. I once fell into the salvation by works trap that you described from your early Christian experience. It's my understanding that once you emerge from that mindset you can go one of a few ways. One, give up on obedience and accept a theology of licentiousness where obedience is downplayed or not required at all. Two, give up on Christianity completely which is similar to one but obviously more extreme. Three, discover that the true role of the law is not about earning God's favour, or in any way earning and steps closer to salvation. Sometimes people learn this but it leads them to path number one if you don't look too deep. If you look a little deeper than the surface of scripture you will see that the law has its role but it was never about salvation not even in OT times, not even in the old covenant. The role of the TC is to point out sin, to define it for us. Christ clearly told us we need to turn away from sin. It's unrealistic to expect we will keep the TC perfectly God does not expect that from us. He didn't expect that from Israel either. What he wants is for us to embrace it for our lives to make it part of our hearts. "Written on our hearts", so as to speak. If we say they are no longer binding we are destroying the law. Christ said clearly they are not to be destroyed.

Think about how the TC were delivered? God didn't trust anyone with them even Moses. Moses was not allowed to write them down for Him, God wrote them with His own hand. Even when Moses broke the original tablets God wrote them again with his own hand. Why was this so important whereas the rest of the laws Moses wrote them out on scrolls? Why was it important that God speak the TC directly to his people so that they all heard God himself recite each commandment to them. That seems like God went to a lot of trouble for this one thing. So now ponder that. Does it now make sense that something God delivered with such power and such personal attention should be dissolved by some vague references made by the apostles? Wouldn't you think God would use the same attention to do away with the TC? Think about how important the commandments were to the Jews? Do you think they would let go of them easily? If Paul or Peter or Jesus for that matter said such a thing directly what do you suppose the reaction would have been? It's no secret the Pharisees tried to catch Jesus on issues of the law. If he had hinted that the TC were not binding they would have stoned him and would have had cause for it.

No kingdom exists without a law, God's kingdom is no exception. The law will not and never will save you or even move you one step closer. The same as how the traffic laws will not pay my taxes, but I'm still expected to obey them. When I'm freed from prison I've paid my debt to society but I'm still expected to keep the law.

It's funny to read all these comments because I feel we really are close on this discussion only you believe Christ died so that we no longer have to keep the TC. We believe Christ died to save us from the penalty. We believe Christ paid our debt but that doesn't mean he wants us to keep running up more with complete disregard. You believe that the debt is paid and Christ doesn't care if we sin or turn away from our old ways. Well, I'm sure you believe he expects us to change but you believe it does not have to be very diligent.

 

[Alawishis]

Those who INSIST a seventh day Sabbath must be observed follow after the written code, not the holy spirit, it is one or the other.
There is nothing wrong with anyone holding to a set day Sabbath. To insist everyone else must is where you err.
You either follow after the holy spirit OR the written code:

But now, by dying to what once bound us we have been released from the law so that we serve un the NEW way of the Spirit and not the OLD way of the written code. Rom7:6

So, all of scripture is a written code, does that mean the Holy Spirit supersedes the written code of scripture completely?

 

[Alawishis]

I chatted to an sda member a couple of years ago. I told them I knew I would go to heaven. They hada worried look on their face and replied:
I cant say that.
What they meant was. They did not know if they would well enough obey the TC to attain heaven. Every sda I have personally met pretty much agrees with the statement you referred to

It proves nothing except that one Christian was not assured of their salvation. Ask me that question and I will tell you absolutely I'm saved. Christ's sacrifice was sufficient for me. You can read whatever you want into the situation of your SDA friend but I caution you , only God knows men's hearts. You don't know if that's what they felt. For all you know they could have gone through a very trying time that made them question their faith. We've all been through that before. I suggest you stop repeating the story on how you understand what your friend "really meant". It sounds to me that you don't know many Adventists. Maybe we should go for luch so that you can start knowing some real representative Adventists.

 

[Alawishis]

Jeremiahs prophecy specifically relates to the new covenant

Is it only New Covenant? My point being this did not change from the previous covenants, there was way more than one old covenant.

If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
~ Deuteronomy 30:10 KJV.

But take diligent heed to do the commandment and the law, which Moses the servant of the LORD charged you, to love the LORD your God, and to walk in all his ways, and to keep his commandments, and to cleave unto him, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul.
~ Joshua 22:5 KJV.

The law of his God is in his heart; none of his steps shall slide.
~ Psalms 37:31 KJV.

The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment. The law of his God is in his heart; none of his steps shall slide.
~ Psalms 37:30-31 KJV.

I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.
~ Psalms 40:8 KJV.

Give me understanding, and I shall keep thy law; yea, I shall observe it with my whole heart.
~ Psalms 119:34 KJV.

My son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments:
~ Proverbs 3:1 KJV.

Are all of these referring to the New Covenant "specifically"? Is it possible that this was God's intent all along that we write his commandments on our hearts? Is it possible that having the commandments written on our hearts was part of the old covenants AND the new covenant? It seems to be mentioned quite a few times in the OT is this something God expected all along? Or was the TC able to save men in the OT times?

 

[mark wright]

Then you've never stepped into a Catholic church, or spent much time with the JWs.

I understand where you are coming from. I once fell into the salvation by works trap that you described from your early Christian experience. It's my understanding that once you emerge from that mindset you can go one of a few ways. One, give up on obedience and accept a theology of licentiousness where obedience is downplayed or not required at all. Two, give up on Christianity completely which is similar to one but obviously more extreme. Three, discover that the true role of the law is not about earning God's favour, or in any way earning and steps closer to salvation. Sometimes people learn this but it leads them to path number one if you don't look too deep. If you look a little deeper than the surface of scripture you will see that the law has its role but it was never about salvation not even in OT times, not even in the old covenant. The role of the TC is to point out sin, to define it for us. Christ clearly told us we need to turn away from sin. It's unrealistic to expect we will keep the TC perfectly God does not expect that from us. He didn't expect that from Israel either. What he wants is for us to embrace it for our lives to make it part of our hearts. "Written on our hearts", so as to speak. If we say they are no longer binding we are destroying the law. Christ said clearly they are not to be destroyed.

Think about how the TC were delivered? God didn't trust anyone with them even Moses. Moses was not allowed to write them down for Him, God wrote them with His own hand. Even when Moses broke the original tablets God wrote them again with his own hand. Why was this so important whereas the rest of the laws Moses wrote them out on scrolls? Why was it important that God speak the TC directly to his people so that they all heard God himself recite each commandment to them. That seems like God went to a lot of trouble for this one thing. So now ponder that. Does it now make sense that something God delivered with such power and such personal attention should be dissolved by some vague references made by the apostles? Wouldn't you think God would use the same attention to do away with the TC? Think about how important the commandments were to the Jews? Do you think they would let go of them easily? If Paul or Peter or Jesus for that matter said such a thing directly what do you suppose the reaction would have been? It's no secret the Pharisees tried to catch Jesus on issues of the law. If he had hinted that the TC were not binding they would have stoned him and would have had cause for it.

No kingdom exists without a law, God's kingdom is no exception. The law will not and never will save you or even move you one step closer. The same as how the traffic laws will not pay my taxes, but I'm still expected to obey them. When I'm freed from prison I've paid my debt to society but I'm still expected to keep the law.

It's funny to read all these comments because I feel we really are close on this discussion only you believe Christ died so that we no longer have to keep the TC. We believe Christ died to save us from the penalty. We believe Christ paid our debt but that doesn't mean he wants us to keep running up more with complete disregard. You believe that the debt is paid and Christ doesn't care if we sin or turn away from our old ways. Well, I'm sure you believe he expects us to change but you believe it does not have to be very diligent.

I believe Christ died to pay the penalty and he doesn't care if we sin???

An external written down law does not bring a person in their heart to want to obey it. That is why whichever country you live in there is a penalty attached to the law to dissuade you from breaking it. However, an internal law placed on the heart you want to obey, for whatever is on your heart you in your heart want to obey. In this sense you have been born again.
No born again christian can sin without conscience for when the sin they go against what is on their heart.
A law of righteousness was removed, not the law itself God desires us to keep, that remains intact on tablets of human hearts.
The power of sin is the law of righteousness. Hence:

Sin shall no longer beyour master for you are not under law but under gracerom6:14

In my experience the people who sin the most are those who stress you must obey the law with the inference heaven hinges on obeying it.
That was true in biblical times. Who dud Jesus reserve his harshest words for? Those who most earnestly strove to be good enough under the written code

 

[mark wright]

So, all of scripture is a written code, does that mean the Holy Spirit supersedes the written code of scripture completely?

The law is the written code. The christian does not follow after the written code but thecSpirit. Through the spirit they look to Christ and trust him to do I them what they cannot do for themselves. The spirit leads the christian to look to the way, the truth and the life, Jesus( not the letter of the law) for obedience comes from faith( rom1:5)
The more you look to Christ and trust him, the more the fruits of the spirit grow in your life( gal5:22)
The more the fruits of the spirit grow in your life the more Godly a life you live for that fruit I the embodiment of how God wants you to live. And against that fruit there is no law gal5:23
That is following after the aSpirit, completely different from looking to the law and striving to obey it to enter heaven.
And while you look to Christ and trust him to bring you to live an ever holier life you hate your imperfections sin that we all have because the law is on your heart
Obedience is not looking to the letter and striving to obey it, you will simply prove you are a lawbreaker( gal2:17)

 

[mark wright]

Is it only New Covenant? My point being this did not change from the previous covenants, there was way more than one old covenant.

If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
~ Deuteronomy 30:10 KJV.

But take diligent heed to do the commandment and the law, which Moses the servant of the LORD charged you, to love the LORD your God, and to walk in all his ways, and to keep his commandments, and to cleave unto him, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul.
~ Joshua 22:5 KJV.

The law of his God is in his heart; none of his steps shall slide.
~ Psalms 37:31 KJV.

The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment. The law of his God is in his heart; none of his steps shall slide.
~ Psalms 37:30-31 KJV.

I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.
~ Psalms 40:8 KJV.

Give me understanding, and I shall keep thy law; yea, I shall observe it with my whole heart.
~ Psalms 119:34 KJV.

My son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments:
~ Proverbs 3:1 KJV.

Are all of these referring to the New Covenant "specifically"? Is it possible that this was God's intent all along that we write his commandments on our hearts? Is it possible that having the commandments written on our hearts was part of the old covenants AND the new covenant? It seems to be mentioned quite a few times in the OT is this something God expected all along? Or was the TC able to save men in the OT times?

If a person loved God in the OT they loved to obey his laws, in this sense the law is on their heart. But under the NC God himself through the Spirit places the law he desires you to keep on your heart. For I he did not you would have a licence to sin under the terms of the NC for you have a saviour from your sin.
In jeremiahs prophecy he said:
The Time IS COMING( it is not there yet) when I will make a NEW covenant....
It wouldn't be like the old one.
And under this NEW covenant the law would be written on the mind and placed on the heart
Then he adds
Your sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more( for you will have a saviour from your sin)

 

[mark wright]

It proves nothing except that one Christian was not assured of their salvation. Ask me that question and I will tell you absolutely I'm saved. Christ's sacrifice was sufficient for me. You can read whatever you want into the situation of your SDA friend but I caution you , only God knows men's hearts. You don't know if that's what they felt. For all you know they could have gone through a very trying time that made them question their faith. We've all been through that before. I suggest you stop repeating the story on how you understand what your friend "really meant". It sounds to me that you don't know many Adventists. Maybe we should go for luch so that you can start knowing some real representative Adventists.

Read what seventh day Adventists stress in this thread. Obedience is looking to the written code and obeying it. So their focus is on the law
Read what Paul states.
The christian has been released from the law and serves/ follows in the new way of the Spirit, not the old way of the written code. Sda relentlessly state you must obey the TC/ written code. If you don't, you don't love Jesus so you go to hell.
That is looking to the written code and focusing on it
It may sound great, but it isn't if you understand the NC Christ died to usher in. In truth it I justification of observing the law. Just worded skillfully so it appears it isnt

 

[mark wright]

Is it only New Covenant? My point being this did not change from the previous covenants, there was way more than one old covenant.

If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
~ Deuteronomy 30:10 KJV.

But take diligent heed to do the commandment and the law, which Moses the servant of the LORD charged you, to love the LORD your God, and to walk in all his ways, and to keep his commandments, and to cleave unto him, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul.
~ Joshua 22:5 KJV.

The law of his God is in his heart; none of his steps shall slide.
~ Psalms 37:31 KJV.

The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment. The law of his God is in his heart; none of his steps shall slide.
~ Psalms 37:30-31 KJV.

I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.
~ Psalms 40:8 KJV.

Give me understanding, and I shall keep thy law; yea, I shall observe it with my whole heart.
~ Psalms 119:34 KJV.

My son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments:
~ Proverbs 3:1 KJV.

Are all of these referring to the New Covenant "specifically"? Is it possible that this was God's intent all along that we write his commandments on our hearts? Is it possible that having the commandments written on our hearts was part of the old covenants AND the new covenant? It seems to be mentioned quite a few times in the OT is this something God expected all along? Or was the TC able to save men in the OT times?

Sorry I my responses seem a bit rushed, am pushed for time.

 

[mark wright]

Is it only New Covenant? My point being this did not change from the previous covenants, there was way more than one old covenant.

If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
~ Deuteronomy 30:10 KJV.

But take diligent heed to do the commandment and the law, which Moses the servant of the LORD charged you, to love the LORD your God, and to walk in all his ways, and to keep his commandments, and to cleave unto him, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul.
~ Joshua 22:5 KJV.

The law of his God is in his heart; none of his steps shall slide.
~ Psalms 37:31 KJV.

The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment. The law of his God is in his heart; none of his steps shall slide.
~ Psalms 37:30-31 KJV.

I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.
~ Psalms 40:8 KJV.

Give me understanding, and I shall keep thy law; yea, I shall observe it with my whole heart.
~ Psalms 119:34 KJV.

My son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments:
~ Proverbs 3:1 KJV.

Are all of these referring to the New Covenant "specifically"? Is it possible that this was God's intent all along that we write his commandments on our hearts? Is it possible that having the commandments written on our hearts was part of the old covenants AND the new covenant? It seems to be mentioned quite a few times in the OT is this something God expected all along? Or was the TC able to save men in the OT times?

A person becomes a christian they are a slave to sin, they need to cross over from that state to being a slave of righteousness leading to holiness. How is this justification of their Christianity to be achieved?
Do they say:
If i love Jesus i must obey the TC. If I don't I cannot be saved for it proves I don't love Jesus.
Or, do they seek this justification by looking away from their sin/ written code and to Christ, trusting him through the Spirit to bring them to cross over to where they need to be? For this episode in their life takes time, it is not instantaneous.
If they look to Christ and trust him how will christians view such a thing? Here before them in church stands a man praising God he is saved while still having evident sin in his life. The man hates the sin and desperately wants to be free of it, but he is looking to Jesus and trusting him for the victory and standing in the meantime in his sole justification for heaven, Christ. Won't people who don't understand the true message ask the question:
Does Christ promote sin? The man is in church praising God with much plain sin in his life.
But what if the man changed course, and looked to the written code, believing he must defeat the sin/ obey the law to be justified/ saved, what would happen then?
He would fail, and simply prove he was a lawbreaker:

If while we seek to be justified in Christ it becomes evident that we ourselves are sinners, does this mean That Christ promotes sin?
Absolutely not, if I rebuild what i destroyed I prove That I am a lawbreaker Gal2:16&17

That man wouldn't get very far would he if he went to a church where he was told
Now you are a christian you must obey the TC. If you dont you don't love Jesus so you are condemned to hell.
Do you think that is Paul's message?

 

[BobRyan]

I don't hate them.

Adventists believe Jesus is the archangel Michael. Which is not scriptural. Whether they are a cult or not I don't know.

This is not accurate -

Adventists believe in the Trinity. God the Son is incarnate as the Son of God - Jesus Christ on earth. But as we see in Genesis 18 and 19 God and the angels can "appear" in the form of a man if they so choose. What is more God the Son can appear in the form of the archangel Michael for His own purposes. God has angels and Satan in rebellion has his fallen angels - Angels either hold their allegiance to God or to Satan. But in Revelation 12 the Angels faithful to God - who serve God are said to be in the group "Michael and HiS Angels" and in Hebrews 1 God says "Let all the Angels of God worship him" they serve God the Son. Who appears in the form of Michael in their ranks as the "Archangel" the head of them all. It is a "form" he takes not - but not an incarnation.

in Genesis 18
18 Now the LORD (YHWH) appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, while he was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day. 2 When he lifted up his eyes and looked, behold, three men were standing opposite him; and when he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them and bowed himself to the earth,...

16 Then the men rose up from there, and looked down toward Sodom; and Abraham was walking with them to send them off. 17 The LORD (YHWH) said, “Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do, 18 since Abraham will surely become a great and mighty nation, and in him all the nations of the earth will be blessed? 19 For I have chosen him, so that he may command his children and his household after him to keep the way of the LORD by doing righteousness and justice, so that the Lord may bring upon Abraham what He has spoken about him.” 20 And the LORD said, “The outcry of Sodom and Gomorrah is indeed great, and their sin is exceedingly grave. 21 I will go down now, and see if they have done entirely according to its outcry, which has come to Me; and if not, I will know.”

22 Then the men turned away from there and went toward Sodom, while Abraham was still standing before the LORD

Genesis 19
Now the two angels came to Sodom in the evening as Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground.

@EastCoastRemnant and several others indicate they do not.

Individuals here and there may claim whatever they wish - but when talking about a denomination if you want to know what the church actually teaches look at its statement of faith. Seventh-day Adventists have an official voted statement of beliefs - voted by the entire world church - with representatives from all over the world coming together every 5 years to review and confirm or change-if-needed their statement of beliefs.

Beliefs :: The Official Site of the Seventh-day Adventist world church


Trinity (Fundamental Belief 2)
There is one God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a unity of three co-eternal Persons. God is immortal, all-powerful, all-knowing, above all, and ever present. He is infinite and beyond human comprehension, yet known through His self-revelation. He is forever worthy of worship, adoration, and service by the whole creation. (Deut. 6:4; Matt. 28:19; 2 Cor. 13:14; Eph. 4:4-6; 1 Peter 1:2; 1 Tim. 1:17; Rev. 14:7.) 1 John 5:7-10 KJV Mark 12:29-30

http://szu.adventist.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/28_Beliefs.pdf

And eastcoastRemnant will admit to this - the Adventist church - as a denomination believes exactly what you find there - the Trinity.

I myself might choose to have some odd idea or two - but I cannot in all honesty claim that whatever off the wall thing I happen to choose - is in fact the actual beliefs of the SDA denomination. For that you have to go to the actual voted statement of beliefs.

I think you are incorrect, thinking that God the Son appeared in the form of the archangel Michael. Where does it say that in scripture

The 3 men in Genesis 18 turn out in Genesis 19 to be two angels - plus God.

And "scripture does say 3 men" in Genesis 18 for God and the two angels.

But as we all know - that does not mean God or angels either one - are really just "men".

---------------- so then "Michael your prince" - the "prince of your people"

Isaiah 9 -- the ONLY prince from heaven - given to us in all of scripture

For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Dan 10
21 However, I will tell you what is inscribed in the writing of truth. Yet there is no one who stands firmly with me against these forces except Michael your prince.

We have only one prince in heaven as Isaiah 9 points out - it is Christ and in Dan 10 it is the name Michael that he is given.

And of course God the Son (and not some angel) is the head of all Angels

Hebrews 1 -
6 And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says,
“And let all the angels of God worship Him.”

Rev 12
7 And there was war in heaven, Michael and His angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war, 8 and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven.

 

[mark wright]

Is it only New Covenant? My point being this did not change from the previous covenants, there was way more than one old covenant.

If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
~ Deuteronomy 30:10 KJV.

But take diligent heed to do the commandment and the law, which Moses the servant of the LORD charged you, to love the LORD your God, and to walk in all his ways, and to keep his commandments, and to cleave unto him, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul.
~ Joshua 22:5 KJV.

The law of his God is in his heart; none of his steps shall slide.
~ Psalms 37:31 KJV.

The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment. The law of his God is in his heart; none of his steps shall slide.
~ Psalms 37:30-31 KJV.

I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.
~ Psalms 40:8 KJV.

Give me understanding, and I shall keep thy law; yea, I shall observe it with my whole heart.
~ Psalms 119:34 KJV.

My son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments:
~ Proverbs 3:1 KJV.

Are all of these referring to the New Covenant "specifically"? Is it possible that this was God's intent all along that we write his commandments on our hearts? Is it possible that having the commandments written on our hearts was part of the old covenants AND the new covenant? It seems to be mentioned quite a few times in the OT is this something God expected all along? Or was the TC able to save men in the OT times?

Look when you relentlessly state you must obey the commandments, what does that in the real world achieve?
It places people under a justification of observing the law. If you cant see that there is no point in continuing this discussion.
It does not have any good value to relentlessly state that. The christian has the law in their mind and placed on their heart God wants them to keep and in their heart they want to obey it. To keep stressing to christians they must obey the law makes sincere christians feel even worse than they already do for their imperfections.
But Satan I subtle, he desperately wants christians to live under a justification of observing the law for he knows that is where the true power of sin lies. At first glance it may sound great to keep telling christians to obey the commandments, but I am afraid That is simply not understanding the true message
I don't care if you believe me or not, but the most flagrant abuse of the TC I have ever seen in over fifty years of going to church was at an sda church I went to for two months to please a friend.
I went with an open mind to try and be inclusive for Paul states how you view holy days is a disputable matter, you can believe as you will.
But I saw people laughing hysterically as they took the Lords name in vain, apparently oblivious to the fact they were breaking one of the TC for they earnestly stressed you must obey those commands to attain heaven I was stunned at what I was hearing i truly was. Never I over fifty years of going to various churches have i witnessed such a thing
In Jesus day when he walked this earth the worst sinners, the biggest hypocrites were those who most earnestly stressed you must obey the letter of the law
To relentlessly state you must obey the TC is not to understand the truth of the NC, period.

 

[SpiritRehab]

Christians don't like Seventh Day Adventism, because Christians love the Bible and the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ and SDA has changed the Bible, "The Clear Word" and rely on Ellen G. White's interpretations.

The major problem is, too few SDA have been born of the Spirit of God, too few have the indwelling Spirit of God. So they are unable to Spiritually Discern the Truth of Scripture. Yet they behave like they are, "in the Most Holy Place" and the rest of Christianity is, "in the Holy Place" Their nonsense, not mine.

They teach Dietary Rules that God didn't teach in His Dietary Law.

They teach Believers & Unbelievers marrying creates Giants; even though the Scriptures say the Sons of God and the Daughters of Men.

They believe the Mark of the Beast is worshiping Jesus Christ on Sunday, instead of worshipping Jesus Christ on Saturday. Yeah, that's Satan's big plan to make Salvation impossible. To get people to worship God on the wrong day.

They teach Daniel's 2300 Day prophecy, is actually 2,300 years; even though the Hebrew reads, 2300 evenings & mornings, not 2300 days.

They teach Antiochus Epiphanes is the Anti-Christ, even though he died before Jesus was born; meanwhile the final Son of Perdition must come before Jesus returns.

They teach the witch did not call up the Spirit of the Prophet Samuel, but a demon pretending to be the spirit of Samuel; even though the narrator, the Holy Spirit, says it was the Prophet Samuel.

They teach Jesus will not set a foot on Earth again, until the 1000 years is finished, while the Prophet Zechariah says His foot shall touch the Mt. of Olives and it shale split in two...

They teach the saved spend the 1,000 years ruling in Heaven, even though Revelation 5 says we will reign on the Earth and Revelation 20 teaches 1,000 years on the Earth.

They teach some races of men are the result of amalgamation of Man & Beast; while Christian Geneticists say that is impossible and there is no trace of animal DNA in any race of men.

I spent 3.5 years attending SDA Bible Study and I've found they have 18 doctrines, unique to their denomination and all 18 are wrong, as well as many other erroneous doctrines, which other denominations share.

Their only hook, is the Sabbath Truth and the general concept of a Health Message, not the details of their nonsense health message.

 

[BobRyan]

Christians don't like Seventh Day Adventism, because Christians love the Bible and the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ and SDA has changed the Bible, "The Clear Word" and rely on Ellen G. White's interpretations..

Hint - the "Clear Word" is not a Bible translation and is not a Bible produced by the SDA church. We have not translated a single Bible and given it as the SDA translation of the Bible.

For Christians - details matter.

 

[BobRyan]

The major problem is, too few SDA have been born of the Spirit of God, too few have the indwelling Spirit of God.

Here we have violation of the CF board rules - and a wild accusation that not even the devil himself could back up.

Try the Christian solution for expressing a difference of opinion -- instead.

Meanwhile as we see in Rev 12 - the devil is "The accuser of the brethren"

 

[BobRyan]

They teach Dietary Rules that God didn't teach in His Dietary Law.

Your suggestion that Leviticus 11 does not exist - is a bit extreme.

They teach Believers & Unbelievers marrying creates Giants;

Pure fiction. Why do you insisting on making stuff up??

Of shorter African parents marry - their children likely to be shorter.
If taller African parents of another nation marry - their children likely to be taller.
Same with Different groups of Europeans.

And tall people before the flood would have tall children like themselves.

It would not matter if they were both believers or not.

They teach Daniel's 2300 Day prophecy, is actually 2,300 years; even though the Hebrew reads, 2300 evenings & mornings

Daniel 9 - 70 weeks is 490 days - which as everyone knows is 490 years predicting the first coming of Christ which happened just as predicted. Daniel 7, 8, and 9 all use the same form of apocalyptic prophetic timelines -- a day for a year.

Everyone knows this is true in Daniel 9 - SDAs know it is also true in Daniel 7 and 8.

They teach Antiochus Epiphanes is the Anti-Christ, even though he died before Jesus was born;

Pure fiction - take a stab at making up less stuff. Then we can discuss.

They teach the witch did not call up the Spirit of the Prophet Samuel, but a demon

1 Sam 28 says "conjure up for me - by thy familiar spirit - whomever I shall name"

Your own argument appears to be that witches and their familiar demon spirits actually do have complete control over the departed saints - just as Satan claims they do.

This is helping to explain where it is you get all the things you have been making up so far. From an untrustworthy source.

Choose the Bible "instead".

Don't want you to miss any of this - so will leave this post at that - and response to the remainder of your post in the next comment.

in Christ,


Bob

 

[BobRyan]

They teach Jesus will not set a foot on Earth again, until the 1000 years is finished,

Hey wait a minute! That actually is something we teach? Did you slip up??

We teach that at the 2nd coming Jesus raptures the church to heaven both living and the dead -

We teach that after the 1000 year millennium the Holy City comes down out of heaven - and with it Jesus and saints Jesus then touches the Mt. of Olives and it shale split in two

while the Prophet Zechariah says His foot shall touch the Mt. of Olives and it shale split in two...

That is what happens after the 1000 year millennium ends. So you get that one almost completely right. Amazing!

They teach the saved spend the 1,000 years ruling in Heaven

Indeed - that is Rev 20:1-5.

Good thing then that Revelation 5 does not say that at the 2nd coming the saints will reign on earth for 1000 years.

, even though Revelation 5 says we will reign on the Earth

And does not say that we will reign on earth before the millennium.

For Christians -- details matter. you and I both know that is true.

Good thing Revelation 20 does not teach that the 1000 years is spent on earth.

and Revelation 20 teaches 1,000 years on the Earth.

Hint: you just 'quoted you' - not the Bible

They teach some races of men are the result of amalgamation of Man & Beast;

Pure fiction - make less stuff up -- be more convincing.

I spent 3.5 years attending SDA Bible Study

I cannot prove that statement is wrong - so perhaps you are right about that one.

and I've found they have 18 doctrines, unique to their denomination

fiction..

 

[mark wright]

You have the legalistic law and the moral law, and this combines to one whole law.
The legalistic law can be faultlessly obeyed by man. Saul the Pharisee faultlessly obeyed it. The moral law cannot be faultlessly obeyed. If it could be, Jesus need not have died at Calvary for peoples sins for then they could have faultlessly obeyed the entire law.
The Apostle Paul terms the law written on stone/ TC/ moral law the letter That kills and the ministration of death and condemnation. Why?
Because it is an inflexible law. There is no pass mark of obedience to it. Perfectly obey it or you stand guilty before it. The TC say nothing of mercy and forgiveness.
The sda on this website state you are justified by Christs death for you at Calvary, but once a christian you must obey the moral law for That proves you love Jesus. If you don't obey it you don't love him you are condemned. Well let us put aside the fact the christian, according to scripture has been released from the law and serves in the new way of the spirit. Let us put aside the fact the christian has one justification for heaven, Christ. Let us put aside the fact the bible states the christian is justified apart from observing the law
The sda are stating you attain heaven by obeying the letter the bible says kills and is the ministry of death and condemnation. To obey this letter proves your love for Christ and therefore you are justified, you will attain heaven, you met the requirement to get there.
But you see, in this debate the letter of the law that kills is just constantly reemed off as the way to attain heaven
Would sda members not explain to people they are being asked to obey the letter that kills, the letter That brings condemnation?
Is it loving to place before people law they must break without explaining That to them? Shouldn't sda members tell people they break the Moral law themselves?
If you don't explain fully all of this, if you just reel off the letter That kills you will crush the sincere with impossible demands, you fail to tell them the whole truth. You break the second most important commandment for you show no love for your neighbour by doing that.
Jesus reserved his harshest words for people who reeled off the literal letter and insisted the people keep it all, they crushed them with impossible demands, but they never practised what the preached. Jesus said their judgement would be harsh
And besides all of that in all but plain name it certainly is a justification by the letter That kills.