How to Find a Good Church, Questions you could ask.

[John Davidson]

Having a cross in the church isn't legalism, if so, then your church is just as legalistic as mine.

Again you further display your confusion here. I never said, "having a cross is legalism" but I did say that requiring a church to have a cross is legalism.

God does not require us to have relics in order to worship him. If fact we are probably better off without them because these symbols can influence us to put more focus on the created rather than the creator.

Also, there is the commandment that says not to make any graven images. This may be kind of a grey area but why do we need a relic to remember Christ's sacrifice? It's simply not a necessary requirement for a good church and frankly the church may be better off without any relics.

 

[John Davidson]

I'm quite certain, you were not there at the early churches. So that statement is of your opinion.

It's not opinion it's fact. The early church was unorganized and met mostly in homes or in the open air. They didn't have stages, sound systems, pulpits, or crosses. They simply focused on making disciples and sharing the gospel message. They operated in a time when there was a lot of persecution for Christians. So having a church building on every corner displaying a cross was not an option.

 

[John Davidson]

Please show me where Christ ever told someone to repent, because He loved them.
How about the rich young lawyer, Didn't Christ ask him questions, things that he has done and hasn't done.
Look them up. Read the sermon on the mount again. It was a list of those who do the right thing and those who don't.

Christ was pure love. God is love. The purpose of Christ's message was to show others that love is supreme. The purpose of the sermon on the mount is to teach us to love God and neighbor. Which was the purpose of Christ's entire ministry.

 

[smithed64]

Let's take another one of your grave errors here.

In your opinion, they are errors...you could be wrong.

In my church every week we say, "God have mercy on me a poor miserable sinner".

The fact of the matter is that every human being is a "practicing sinner". We all sin every day in thought, word, and deed.

So to say that those who live a "persistent lifestyle of sin" cannot inherit eternal life means that no one can.

I agree, I'm a sinner saved by grace. I have sinned and I sin. When I catch myself, my conscience smacks me down and reminds me that I'm a Child of God and I ought not do those things. I then fall to my knees, sit at my desk, pull my car over or wherever I am. And I go to Him and repent, He forgives, I go on serving Him.

You may say that in church...but do you mean it. Is it sorrowful, Are you truly repentant of you sins. It doesn't mean a thing, if it isn't truthful and from the heart. Your just performing lip service to make yourself feel better, if that is the case.

Those who continue in sin and do not repent of those sins. When they die and have not repented of continually living in sin, they will go to Hell. If God isn't first in your life. If you have not put on Christ. And you keep on living in sin, say for instance you keep cheating on your wife, or you continue to lie to those around you, or you think taking things that don't belong to you is okay, you would rather sit home and watch TV than read His Word and pray, that's called idolatry. If you break any of God's commandments, you have broken every one of them. And if you continue to do these things, I would venture to say, you aren't saved anyway. Because if your Born Again, completely surrendered to God, you wouldn't want to do any of those things. You'd ask God to completely renew your mind and to change your desires to be inline with Him. Living for God, isn't for us. It's for Him.

Eternal life is the free gift of Christ that is not based upon our merit or good works.

Your right. We will be judged by our works of faith come judgment day.

Ultimately Christ will be the judge but remember it was the sinner who was justified and not the Pharisee:

True, because He prayed in vain, not meaning a word He said and thought he was better than the publican.

Luke 18:9-14

1 Timothy 1:15
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

 

[smithed64]

If you are going to make a thread coaching others about what they should ask a church about the "essentials of the faith" then shouldn't you know what those essentials are and be able to list them correctly?

It's like the blind leading the blind here.

I know the essentials.

Many don't though. many haven't read the creeds. Many don't have a theological degree. Many are new in Christ and need a bit of a Guide.

You don't need to know the essentials, to ask these questions, because they are simple questions. Your making them difficult.

And again, if you don't like them, don't use them.

 

[smithed64]

Again you further display your confusion here. I never said, "having a cross is legalism" but I did say that requiring a church to have a cross is legalism.

God does not require us to have relics in order to worship him. If fact we are probably better off without them because these symbols can influence us to put more focus on the created rather than the creator.

Also, there is the commandment that says not to make any graven images. This may be kind of a grey area but why do we need a relic to remember Christ's sacrifice? It's simply not a necessary requirement for a good church and frankly the church may be better off without any relics.

I didn't say it was a requirement to have a cross, either. It's a simple question, that let's the one asking the question to where the focus of the church is. Is it on the cross, that Christ died for our sins. Or is it not about His life saving blood shed for our sins.
So many churches today, don't preach about sin, death, hell and the grave. Nor do they preach the Gospel. Or even the truth of God's Word.
They teach you how to have a happy life, how to make yourself feel better through 10 different ways of doing other things. Many are "Hey come on down, we have hot dogs and donuts, yeah bring them in the sanctuary, as we are preaching...oh by the way our service today is about how God will give you the best life ever, if you believe"

 

[smithed64]

It's not opinion it's fact. The early church was unorganized and met mostly in homes or in the open air. They didn't have stages, sound systems, pulpits, or crosses. They simply focused on making disciples and sharing the gospel message. They operated in a time when there was a lot of persecution for Christians. So having a church building on every corner displaying a cross was not an option.

It's an opinion, if you weren't there to see it.

Archaeological, you can guess, yes.

They didn't have stages....every heard of a coliseum. It's a stage, many preached Christ crucified, as they were being persecuted.
Your correct in saying they usually did use peoples homes, some was done outside.
Of course there wasn't any sound systems. There may have been a pulpit..it may have been a roll stand, just as the Levites used to place the torah when reading it in the synagogue. possibly not sure.

I'm not against what you said. just on how you say it.
Unless you were there, and have seen it...then it's a fact.
Until then...it's a guess and or opinion.

 

[smithed64]

Christ was pure love. God is love. The purpose of Christ's message was to show others that love is supreme. The purpose of the sermon on the mount is to teach us to love God and neighbor. Which was the purpose of Christ's entire ministry.

Again, show me the scripture where it says He was pure love.
show me the scripture where it says that His purpose was to show others that love is supreme.
The purpose of the sermon on the mount teaches us much more than what you say.

To put the sermon on the mount in one sentence it would be this:

How to live a life that is dedicated to and pleasing to God, free from hypocrisy, full of love and grace, full of wisdom and discernment.

Because Christ says to sweet things, but He also says some pretty scary things also.

I'm assuming that your one of those. God loves the sinner but hates the sin type, I'm I correct? If I'm wrong it's okay to say so, doesn't hurt my feelings.

 

[Tigger45]

Everyone, please be aware that the "LOOKING FOR A CHURCH" sub-forum is not open to debate or course exchanges.


Welcome to the Looking for a Church forum! We encourage members here to ask questions about churches and denominations, doctrines, practices, etc. in order to facilitate their search for a church home. This is not a place for debate, teaching, or proselytizing. Posts and threads of this manner will be considered off-topic and may be closed or removed. Please do not start threads here to advertise your congregation, these will also be considered off-topic to the forum.

Thank you for respecting this space as a safe place where others can find the church that suits them best.

Please do not use this forum to discuss churches which are outside of this forum's Statement of Faith.

Homosexuality and Same Sex Marriage:
Homosexuality and same sex marriage may be discussed in this forum, however, no promotion of these topics is allowed. Promotion is defined as encouragement of the progress, growth, or acceptance of something including advertising and publicity.

All posts within this forum must adhere to the site wide rules.

 

[John Davidson]

Again, show me the scripture where it says He was pure love.

If you don't understand that Jesus Christ was full of love then you don't understand the scriptures at all. Here are only a couple of the many verses I could find that speak of the love of Christ and God. The entire new testament is a testimony of this. The whole point of why Jesus came was because he loved us enough to lay down his life for us. If you don't understand that Christ is pure love then you know nothing.

1 John 4:8
He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

John 13:34-35
A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

 

[John Davidson]

You may say that in church...but do you mean it. Is it sorrowful, Are you truly repentant of you sins. It doesn't mean a thing, if it isn't truthful and from the heart. Your just performing lip service to make yourself feel better, if that is the case.

Of coarse I mean it. I wouldn't have mentioned it otherwise.

 

[John Davidson]

I didn't say it was a requirement to have a cross, either.

Actually yes you did. It is point #24 of your requirements for a "good church".

 

[John Davidson]

I know the essentials.

If you know the essentials then why did you not mention them in your list?

 

[John Davidson]

Many are "Hey come on down, we have hot dogs and donuts

There is nothing wrong with sharing a meal and fellowship.

 

[John Davidson]

It's a simple question, that let's the one asking the question to where the focus of the church is. Is it on the cross, that Christ died for our sins. Or is it not about His life saving blood shed for our sins.

You can focus on the cross of Christ without having a relic or physical symbol. You are making an unnecessary requirement and law. This is the same thing the Pharisees did. God isn't concerned with outward relics or symbols. He is concerned with out hearts. As long as your focus is on the atonement and Christ's love for you there is no need for a physical symbol. I don't sit around my house and stare at a cross but I do think about Christ and his sacrifice.

 

[John Davidson]

2. What must a man do to inherit eternal life?
Repent and trust is the Biblical answer. If the word “repent” is never used, say, “Thank you."

Now lets address another one of your erroneous statements.

We are saved by grace through faith. Faith in Jesus Christ is what is required for a man to receive eternal life.

 

[John Davidson]

Those who continue in sin and do not repent of those sins. When they die and have not repented of continually living in sin, they will go to Hell.

If your statement is true then everyone will go to hell.

You never stop sinning. You are a sinner. Sin is your condition. You fall short of God's perfection.

We are saved by God's grace and mercy. Not by our works.

You will never stop sinning.

So to say that those who sin will go to hell shows that you do not comprehend the cross, the gospel message, God's grace, or the free gift of eternal life.

 

[John Davidson]

you would rather sit home and watch TV than read His Word and pray, that's called idolatry.

God allows us to do things in life. We aren't required to read the bible all day long. It's not idolatry, it's called living.

 

[smithed64]

If you don't understand that Jesus Christ was full of love then you don't understand the scriptures at all. Here are only a couple of the many verses I could find that speak of the love of Christ and God. The entire new testament is a testimony of this. The whole point of why Jesus came was because he loved us enough to lay down his life for us. If you don't understand that Christ is pure love then you know nothing.

1 John 4:8
He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

John 13:34-35
A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

I understand about the Love of God. Quite well, thank you.

But I also understand, that isn't the only reason why He came to spread this love around. He came to save the lost, He came to show people that they have sin in their lives and that we are to repent and place our trust in Him. As the scripture said, that you posted. Is very true and I'm thankful for that love. But He also hates, he hates sin, so much so that He sent His Son to die for us to cleanse us from that sin and to save us from the wrath of God.

 

[smithed64]

Actually yes you did. It is point #24 of your requirements for a "good church".

Then I do need to change that title. Thank you.