Is the Roman Catholic church, Christian or Pagan?

[Sabbathkeeper&Wife]

He was sinless. He was human. He was tempted, yet without sin, therefore it's why He understands what we go through- correct?

 

[overcomer]

He was sinless. He was human. He was tempted, yet without sin, therefore it's why He understands what we go through- correct?

I always use this analogy...

I don't have a weakness for chocolates. You can leave a box of them on the table and it will probably still be there by the end of the day. Not really a temptation for me. Now with my wife on the other hand it will be a totally different story.

So yeah, that's exactly why he partook humanity.

 

[Sabbathkeeper&Wife]

I like that. And it's....befitting

 

[masmpg]

SKW,

Jesus's sinless human nature is a Roman Catholic belief and is unbiblical. They believe Jesus got his sinless human nature from Mary because she was sinless and was born through immaculate conception.

SDAs historically believed Jesus had fallen human nature. That's until the publication of the book 'Questions on Doctrine' as a result of ecumenical dialogue with Walter Martin and Donald Barnhouse. Although there is no official statement on this, that's where it crept into our denomination.

The crux of the matter is that if Jesus had a sinless human nature, then only he could have kept the law and it's impossible for all of us to keep the law because we all have fallen nature.

But the bible tells a different story. It says Jesus was made in the likeness of man and was sent in the likeness of sinful flesh. And he suffered all our infirmities and endured all our temptations. And he could have died had he not cried out in strong cries and supplication to the Father who was able to deliver him. Thus his victory over sin sets an example for us.

I agree. Contrary to what most of Christendom believes, even many SDAs that Jesus took the human nature of Adam before the fall, whereby He could not sin. There is no biblical proof of this. Quite contrary is the fact that throughout the bible we are told that Jesus was just as much a human as you and I are. Jesus took the sinful nature of Adam after the fall so He could be our perfect sacrifice. If Jesus had any kind of advantage over humanity He could not have been accepted as our propitiation. If we claim that the miracles He did as proof of His divinity that will not stand because the disciples did everything Jesus did. Peter walked on water, Paul, and Peter raised the dead. They healed many, probably thousands of sicknesses. Paul was bitten by a deadly serpent, and was worshiped as a god afterwards ETC.

For the catholic church to change their doctrine, often I might ad, puts papal infallibility to shame. Pope Francis has probably changed more of the RCCs rules and set in concrete doctrines than any other pope.

 

[Dave-W]

Contrary to what most of Christendom believes, even many SDAs that Jesus took the human nature of Adam before the fall, whereby He could not sin. There is no biblical proof of this. Quite contrary is the fact that throughout the bible we are told that Jesus was just as much a human as you and I are. Jesus took the sinful nature of Adam after the fall so He could be our perfect sacrifice.

I have a problem with your saying "before." Since God exists outside of time, "before" or "after" become meaningless.

Adam was made in God's image. But does the Father or the Holy Spirit have what we would call a human image? No. Spirits do not have an image. That leaves the Son. The writer of Hebrews says He is the same yesterday (eternity past) today (present) and forever. (eternity future) (Heb 13.8) It might be more accurate to say that Adam was made in the likeness of the sinless perfection of Jesus. (rather than the other way around)

But coming to earth, He (our Lord) took on the weakness of fallen man. He also divested himself of His own divine nature, so He would have to rely on the power of the Holy Spirit just as we do. Both for the miracles he performed and the sinless life He led.
.
That way the author of Hebrews can say this:

Hebrews 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.

 

[masmpg]

I have a problem with your saying "before." Since God exists outside of time, "before" or "after" become meaningless.

Adam was made in God's image. But does the Father or the Holy Spirit have what we would call a human image? No. Spirits do not have an image. That leaves the Son. The writer of Hebrews says He is the same yesterday (eternity past) today (present) and forever. (eternity future) (Heb 13.8) It might be more accurate to say that Adam was made in the likeness of the sinless perfection of Jesus. (rather than the other way around)

But coming to earth, He (our Lord) took on the weakness of fallen man. He also divested himself of His own divine nature, so He would have to rely on the power of the Holy Spirit just as we do. Both for the miracles he performed and the sinless life He led.
.
That way the author of Hebrews can say this:

Hebrews 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.

I agree that time has no relevance with God.

The only reason I used the word "after" is because "after" eve bit the fruit they inherited sinful nature not before. This has nothing to do with eternity, it is about when Eve and Adam sinned, which gave them sinful nature. Jesus took the nature of man after the fall. Jesus did not take the nature of man before man fell. Before man fell they did not have a sinful nature.
That's all I was relating.

 

[masmpg]

I'm talking about Jesus sinless nature. He got that from His Father. He got that because He is the living WORD of God. Not from Mary. I'm sure she was a great woman, as she was chosen of God to carry His Son, but thinking Christ's sinless nature came from her is exactly what set the stage for the error of RCC.

Jesus had nothing, no advantage over humanity that is why when He came to earth he took mans fallen nature, the nature of man after the fall of Adam. Remember what Jesus Himself said when alive in John:5:19: "Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." While Jesus was alive He depended totally on His Father, by faith for everything pertaining to Himself. He certainly did good to others through His own power but if He would have used His own divine power for His advantage then satan would have won the battle. Jesus had to be fully human, just as human as you and I, but after His death He went to the Father to be glorified. Read Hebrew chapter 2, here is the last verses: Hebrews:2:17&18: "Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted." The whole plan of salvation was carried out by the ONLY being that could have saved humanity, the crowning act of God's creation. Jesus had to become man and prove to the universe that humanity with the help of divinity, by faith, can obey God. that was satan's argument. Lucifer said that God was unjust, and His laws cannot be obeyed. And even proved it in the garden of eden with Eve.

 

[Sabbathkeeper&Wife]

Point being that He was human, was tempted, yet stood on scripture to thwart the wiles of the devil, which we will only have to stand on very soon. That's why He said He understands temptation. After 40 days in the wilderness, you know He was weak ( the time satan always hits) and was powerful hungry! I'll bet the stones smelled like bread at that point. A lot of Jesus' talks speak of appetite and overindulgence. Temperance, moderation, abstinence, even for the clean foods. Denying self, which breaks down symbolically to leaning not on our own understanding and like the mistake Peter made, on our own skill, knowledge and power, but only on His. All in all, He stood on scripture every time. Not even on His understanding, but the Father's.

 

[reddogs]

Jesus had nothing, no advantage over humanity that is why when He came to earth he took mans fallen nature, the nature of man after the fall of Adam. Remember what Jesus Himself said when alive in John:5:19: "Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." While Jesus was alive He depended totally on His Father, by faith for everything pertaining to Himself. He certainly did good to others through His own power but if He would have used His own divine power for His advantage then satan would have won the battle. Jesus had to be fully human, just as human as you and I, but after His death He went to the Father to be glorified. Read Hebrew chapter 2, here is the last verses: Hebrews:2:17&18: "Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted." The whole plan of salvation was carried out by the ONLY being that could have saved humanity, the crowning act of God's creation. Jesus had to become man and prove to the universe that humanity with the help of divinity, by faith, can obey God. that was satan's argument. Lucifer said that God was unjust, and His laws cannot be obeyed. And even proved it in the garden of eden with Eve.

Well you were good till '[Lucifer] proved it in the garden of eden. Not so my brother, Eve stumbled but Christ proved that God is just and His laws can be obeyed as we see, and Christ nature was after the fall, but His mind was unsullied by sin, it was from before the fall. Which we, if we ask from God, can also have, thus Christ has no advantage. We too can have the mind of Christ in us and we in Him on our road to sanctification..