Can God self Terminate?

[Radrook]

Is total self-termination or total self-obliteration within the parameters of God's abilities? Or do we conclude that no matter how he might feel concerning his own existence, He is incapable of such an act?

 

[pdudgeon]

Is total self-termination or total self-obliteration within the parameters of God's abilities? Or do we conclude that no matter how he might feel concerning his own existence, He is incapable of such an act?

all things are possible, but not all things are profitable.

(this OP is a varient on the theme "Can God make a rock that He cannot lift?")

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Is total self-termination or total self-obliteration within the parameters of God's abilities? Or do we conclude that no matter how he might feel concerning his own existence, He is incapable of such an act?

I doubt He can self-terminate; if He could, then that would put a wrench in the meaning of "eternal."

 

[Ken Rank]

Is total self-termination or total self-obliteration within the parameters of God's abilities? Or do we conclude that no matter how he might feel concerning his own existence, He is incapable of such an act?

That is a fascinating question. I found myself with a quick answer and then, as I began to write, realized the quick answer was not consistent with the name of God. Let me briefly share a thought...

In Hebrew, the word for name (shem) deals more with the character, reputation, and authority of the name bearer than it does what we call that person. So to "walk in the name of God" means to walk in a manner consistent with His character and within the scope of His authority. To profane God's name is to stand in opposition to His character, take from His reputation, or walk outside His will/authority. So when it comes to God's name, what "character" attributes describe Him? Well, the obvious;
love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self- control (Galatians 5:22-23). You might also consider Exodus 34:5-8. But what else do we know about God that describes Him, builds His reputation, adds to His character? He is LIGHT is He not? How about LIFE?

There is one more thing to consider. God has made certain promises. If He were to self-terminate, He would profane His own name not only for destroying true light and life, but also because it would mean He made promises He did not fulfill. So my answer is.... He might have the ability to, but it wouldn't and couldn't ever happen without Him profaning His name. And seeing His name is ETERNAL, He already knows it will never be profaned.

 

[Dave-W]

So my answer is.... He might have the ability to, but it wouldn't and couldn't ever happen without Him profaning His name. And seeing His name is ETERNAL, He already knows it will never be profaned.

Good answer.

 

[Radrook]

That is a fascinating question. I found myself with a quick answer and then, as I began to write, realized the quick answer was not consistent with the name of God. Let me briefly share a thought...

In Hebrew, the word for name (shem) deals more with the character, reputation, and authority of the name bearer than it does what we call that person. So to "walk in the name of God" means to walk in a manner consistent with His character and within the scope of His authority. To profane God's name is to stand in opposition to His character, take from His reputation, or walk outside His will/authority. So when it comes to God's name, what "character" attributes describe Him? Well, the obvious;
love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self- control (Galatians 5:22-23). You might also consider Exodus 34:5-8. But what else do we know about God that describes Him, builds His reputation, adds to His character? He is LIGHT is He not? How about LIFE?

There is one more thing to consider. God has made certain promises. If He were to self-terminate, He would profane His own name not only for destroying true light and life, but also because it would mean He made promises He did not fulfill. So my answer is.... He might have the ability to, but it wouldn't and couldn't ever happen without Him profaning His name. And seeing His name is ETERNAL, He already knows it will never be profaned.

Yes the Bible does strongly convey those concepts.

 

[Inkfingers]

Is total self-termination or total self-obliteration within the parameters of God's abilities?

No.

The eternal cannot cease to be eternal.

Or do we conclude that ... He is incapable of such an act?

We do indeed conclude that.

God's omnipotence does not mean that he can make 2 plus 2 equal elephant or any other self-contradictory nonsense a human mind dreams up in its foolishness. It means that God's plans and purposes will always come to pass exactly as He determines them to in exactly the manner needed to fulfill his perfect purposes.

 

[Radrook]

No.

The eternal cannot cease to be eternal.



We do indeed conclude that.

God's omnipotence does not mean that he can make 2 plus 2 equal elephant or any other self-contradictory nonse a human mind dreams up in its foolishness. It means that God's plans and purposes will always come to pass exactly as He determines them to in exactly the manner needed to fulfill his perfect purposes.

Thanks for the explanation. True about squaring a circle and the mathematics.

 

[miknik5]

Is total self-termination or total self-obliteration within the parameters of God's abilities? Or do we conclude that no matter how he might feel concerning his own existence, He is incapable of such an act?

HE feels pretty fine about HIS existence


And so do those who know HIM

 

[Radrook]

HE feels pretty fine about HIS existence


And so do those who know HIM

Yes! He is described as the happy God actually.

'The Gospel of the Glory of the Happy God'
-- 1 TIM. i.11.

 

[Ken Rank]

Does he have free will? Or are his decisions forced upon him by his own nature? Not trying to be disrespectful. Only striving to better understand. You see, I came across a sci fi story where this being who was all powerful was incapable of self destructing and yet desperately wanted to. Of course the insinuations were concerning an almighty God who might find himself in such a situation. That story has remained with me and sometimes resurfaces and makes me wonder. The description of God that you provide seems to convey a being who is governed by his own nature and MUST abide by that nature and cannot act otherwise. Correct?

Which brings up the question.
In providing his creatures with free will was he providing them with something that He himself can never possess?

I think it is clear He has free will. Remember Hezekiah, God "added" 15 years to his life. The problem is we are dealing with a being that really is outside of our ability to understand to any great detail. We are in the flesh and finite, He is Spirit and eternal. We are simply limited on what we can or cannot grasp at this time. So, with what little we can grasp... if we see Him "repent" in various places (2 Samuel 24:16, Amos 7:3 to name two) then He can change His mind. And if true, and that seems to be the case, then He has free will.

The free will He gave us allows us to choose Him or the world. Thus, in the end, He is surrounded by those who WANTED to love Him, WANTED to be with Him.

The problem with free will and predestination is both exist in Scripture and too few are patient enough to work through it to reconcile them. I think it comes down to who's eyes are being looked through. While God has free will, He also knows the end from the beginning and is eternal... always existing. So from His perspective, He can see our timeline at any point and know what will become of any person, thing, thought, anything. Since he knows it in advance, from His perspective we can say "predestination" because it WILL happen because being eternal, He saw it happen already (He exists outside of time). But WE DON'T have a clue what tomorrow brings and so we live having to choose... between good and evil, life and death, blessing and cursing.

 

[miknik5]

Good to know. I certainly would not feel comfortable knowing that he wants out but cannot.

BTW
Whether one or the other I would still accept him as my heavenly Father albeit with a feeling of loving compassion for his predicament. So it would not affect my worship of him in the slightest. So there goes the suspicion right out the window.

oh you mean the predicament of those who deny HIM

 

[Radrook]

And so you

oh you mean the predicament of those who deny HIM

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Ken Rank]

No.

The eternal cannot cease to be eternal.

I think the above quote states it well.... while He might have free will, He is also eternal which by definition means "always was, always will be." So even if He could... He won't, can't... without making Himself out to be a liar. And I only say that because He called Himself eternal, His name declares His eternal existence.

 

[miknik5]

No, I mean about the predicament of not being able to self terminate though wanting to. I would view him with compassion but still respect and love him just the same since he would still be my creator and heavenly father despite any predicament beyond his control.

Radrock

Not a good or productive discussion.

 

[Radrook]

I think the above quote states it well.... while He might have free will, He is also eternal which by definition means "always was, always will be." So even if He could... He won't, can't... without making Himself out to be a liar. And I only say that because He called Himself eternal, His name declares His eternal existence.

I agree with his eternalness.

 

[Radrook]

Radrock

Not a good or productive discussion.

Then I made a mistake and will have it removed.
My apologies!

 

[Ken Rank]

Radrock

Not a good or productive discussion.

I thought it was an interesting question. How can you explore anything to greater depths unless you are willing to ask questions? There are some decent answers and observations in this thread already, even if it ended now, it will have been a worthy question.

 

[Ken Rank]

His eternalness isn't being doubted.

Then your opening question isn't relevant. If you know what the word eternal means, and you know God applied it to Himself, then you also know He can self-terminate without making Himself out to be a liar. So you have answered your own question.

 

[Radrook]

I thought it was an interesting question. How can you explore anything to greater depths unless you are willing to ask questions? There are some decent answers and observations in this thread already, even if it ended now, it will have been a worthy question.

The Bible does tell us that we should not stumble others and I am getting the strong impression that this subject has that potential. That makes me feel very badly. So I will request it be removed. Thanks for the contribution and interest.