LDS The 'beginning' of God in Mormonism

[miknik5]

what did He mean when He said that He doesn't change?

You just made this up. You can prove that you didn't make this up by telling me what scripture you just quoted.

Did you understand now what HE means that HE does not change. That HE IS

Or do you need further clarification?

 

[Jane_Doe]

Show me where GOD moves from one state of being to another state of being

When He's born.
When He died.
When He was resurrected.

 

[miknik5]

When He's born.
When He died.
When He was resurrected.

Tell me about the transfiguration.

 

[miknik5]

When He's born.
When He died.
When He was resurrected.

You declare JESUS as GOD

What happened to THE FATHER?

 

[miknik5]

And would you say that JESUS' SPIRIT was as perfect as THE FATHER (if not maybe more perfect than THE FATHER's in that in CHRIST man could see THE FATHER)?

Would you say that JESUS in HIS precrucified state had authority and power to speak and declare with authority all that HE said prior to HIS CRUCIFIXION

In which case was JESUS' SPIRIT perfect pre and post HIS crucifixion?

 

[withwonderingawe]

Oh boy. This is not the absolute state of perfection for flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom

Good point;

When Jesus appeared to his apostles he said very clearly "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself:handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

When Jesus died on the cross he spilled all of his blood on the ground. During the three days his body was in the tomb and his spirit was in the spirit world he became a quickening spirit, I honestly don't understand what that means but it is Biblical (1Cor 15:45). His spirit returned to his body and lifted it up unto life. His spirit is the life of the body and not the blood, he has no blood, blood is earthly and the spirit is from above.

 

[Alla27]

And would you say that JESUS' SPIRIT was as perfect as THE FATHER (if not maybe more perfect than THE FATHER's in that in CHRIST man could see THE FATHER)?

Would you say that JESUS in HIS precrucified state had authority and power to speak and declare with authority all that HE said prior to HIS CRUCIFIXION

In which case was JESUS' SPIRIT perfect pre and post HIS crucifixion?

This is what we believe. We believe that Jesus Christ lived with Heavenly Father before He was born on earth. He(Christ) was Spirit without physical body. When Jesus Christ was born on earth He became mortal man. Christ(Spirit) entered in mortal physical body. When Christ died His spirit left mortal physical body. His spirit spent some time in spirit world. When Christ resurrected His spirit re united with His physical body. But this body was not mortal any more. It had spirit. It is glorious immortal body flesh and bones, not flesh and blood. Flesh and blood is mortal man and no flesh and blood or no mortal man can enter Father's Kingdom.
This is what I believe.

 

[Jane_Doe]

What happened to THE FATHER?

During Christ's Earthly ministry? In Heaven, watching over Christ and guiding Him.

 

[Jane_Doe]

And would you say that JESUS' SPIRIT was as perfect as THE FATHER (if not maybe more perfect than THE FATHER's in that in CHRIST man could see THE FATHER)?

Christ, the Father, and the Spirit were/are all 100% perfect.

 

[withwonderingawe]

milik5 asked; And would you say that JESUS' SPIRIT was as perfect as THE FATHER (if not maybe more perfect than THE FATHER's in that in CHRIST man could see THE FATHER)?

And you don't think the Father could see the Son?

Yahweh was from eternity to eternity has always been perfectly righteous, his will was always bowed to the Father's will. (unlike ours)


Milik5 asked; Would you say that JESUS in HIS precrucified state had authority and power to speak and declare with authority all that HE said prior to HIS CRUCIFIXION

Yes, all power and authority was given to him by the Father. We think of it more as an agent with a stewardship. He is the mediator between mankind and El.

1 Timothy 2
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Milik5; In which case was JESUS' SPIRIT perfect pre and post HIS crucifixion?

The word 'perfect' actually in the Hebrew means 'to be complete, thoroughly finished'.

Yes, perfect in his righteousness but he lacked the perfect physical body. In the sermon on the mount he says 'be perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect', he does not say as I am. Referring to his resurrection He says in Luke 13 "and the third day I shall be perfected" so I shall be complete.

In the Book of Mormon when Jesus appears to the people here after his resurrection he says;
3 Nephi 12:
48 Therefore I would that ye should be perfect even as I, or your Father who is in heaven is perfect.

So he adds himself to the list of those who are perfect, complete or thoroughly finished.

 

[miknik5]

Christ, the Father, and the Spirit were/are all 100% perfect.

When ? You have put them in some sort of striving process toward that.....perfection

 

[Jane_Doe]

When ? You have put them in some sort of striving process toward that.....perfection

WE are the ones whom strive for perfection.
The Father/Son/Spirit do not: they have already attained perfection.

 

[miknik5]

Good point;

When Jesus appeared to his apostles he said very clearly "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself:handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

When Jesus died on the cross he spilled all of his blood on the ground. During the three days his body was in the tomb and his spirit was in the spirit world he became a quickening spirit, I honestly don't understand what that means but it is Biblical (1Cor 15:45). His spirit returned to his body and lifted it up unto life. His spirit is the life of the body and not the blood, he has no blood, blood is earthly and the spirit is from above.

but do you see that this same (invisible) SPIRIT in HIS (visible) BODY (which HE willingly laid down) is the same SPIRIT that went to preach to those held captive in captivity and is the same SPIRIT thst returned to the lifeless vessel of HIS bidy and raised it up again?

HE, CHRIST, is a quickening SPIRIT to us but not to HIMSELF as HE (that is THE SPIRIT part of HIS being) never could spiritually die

HE laid down the flesh yes
But the SPIRIT simply left HIS BODY to go and preach to those who had not benefitted by HIS (physically coming into the world as true and holy and perfect flesh/son of man and true and holy and perfect SPIRIT/son of GOD

Even the transfiguration attests to the TRUTH that CHRIST simply covered over HIS HOLY GLORY in our covering

 

[Jane_Doe]

but do you see that this same (invisible) SPIRIT in HIS (visible) BODY (which HE willingly laid down) is the same SPIRIT that went to preach to those held captive in captivity and in the same SPIRIT thst returned to the lifeless vessel of HIS bidy and raised it up again?

Yes. This is basic LDS beliefs.

 

[miknik5]

CHRIST JESUS did not become HOLY.

HE came into the world....HOLY

 

[Jane_Doe]

CHRIST JESUS did not become HOLY.

HE came into the world....HOLY

Correct, this is also basic LDS beliefs.

 

[miknik5]

Yes. This is basic LDS beliefs.

Are you "withwonderingawe"

Please stop answering for the above poster

What I was given with regards to the three beings of GOD from your LDS standpoint was some sort of backward process to "perfection"

And the HOLY ONE to be born was HOLY and declared HOLY from the beginning and humbled HIMSELF and came in our likeness so that we might be made/conformed to HIS likeness

Which can ONLY be done by HIS QUICKENING SPIRIT

 

[miknik5]

WE are the ones whom strive for perfection.
The Father/Son/Spirit do not: they have already attained perfection.

Do you reject your LDS beliefs then?

 

[miknik5]

Jesus Christ is the divine Son of God. LDS Article of Faith #1: "1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost." https://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/a-of-f?lang=eng

Jesus is Spirit but He is not the Holy Ghost. Heavenly Father is Spirit but He is not the Holy Ghost. You are spirit but you are not the Holy Ghost.
There are many spirits but there is only one Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost is one of Heavenly Father's Sons. Jesus and the Holy Ghost are Brothers. Father is God. Son is God. The Holy Ghost is God. Three of Them are one Godhead.
Here is your straight answer. If I am wrong my brothers and sisters will correct me.

Here's one which we do not agree on but is an LDS belief

 

[Jane_Doe]

Do you reject your LDS beliefs then?

I do not. It is LDS beliefs that the Father/Son/Spirit are and always have been perfect.