We had three choices

[smithed64]

Can you explain to me why some of the best countries in the world to live in are Northern European democratic socialist countries?

Nope, because I've never lived there, so I can't say they are the best or the worst and be truthful about it. I would be assuming this.

Have you lived there? Can you explain why if you've lived there and experienced them. If you haven't, your assuming they are the best.

 

[LoAmmi]

Greece is broke...because of socialism.
Venezuela is broke because of socialism and cronyism.

Let's just take Greece here since as you admit Venezuela had other issues.

To say "socialism" was the problem is to ignore the deception in the government reporting debt, the effect the Great Recession caused by a bubble that burst (not socialism, BTW), and being under one currency with the rest of the EU instead of having its own. In fact, I really have trouble finding all those combining issues, among others, to be in the socialism sphere. I could just as easily say "capitalism" as the Great Recession was the big driver and that happened due to the private sector and bad loans by banks.

 

[smithed64]

Let's just take Greece here since as you admit Venezuela had other issues.

To say "socialism" was the problem is to ignore the deception in the government reporting debt, the effect the Great Recession caused by a bubble that burst (not socialism, BTW), and being under one currency with the rest of the EU instead of having its own. In fact, I really have trouble finding all those combining issues, among others, to be in the socialism sphere. I could just as easily say "capitalism" as the Great Recession was the big driver and that happened due to the private sector and bad loans by banks.

And you'd be correct. about the depression and the resent recession was mainly because of loaning money to people who couldn't afford the loan. With a variable interest rate that sky rocketed after 8 years maturity of those loans.

I admit that Venezuela, is a socialist run country and is in a mess right now because of it. I also admit that the president of Venezuela, wanted a socialist government so He could line the pockets of His crony friends. It's still socialism, no matter what He does with His friends. It don't work.

 

[Skavau]

Nope, because I've never lived there, so I can't say they are the best or the worst and be truthful about it. I would be assuming this.

Have you lived there? Can you explain why if you've lived there and experienced them. If you haven't, your assuming they are the best.

No, I'm going by statistics.

 

[LoAmmi]

And you'd be correct. about the depression and the resent recession was mainly because of loaning money to people who couldn't afford the loan. With a variable interest rate that sky rocketed after 8 years maturity of those loans.

So we agree that you can hardly blame Greece on "socialism" since it was multiple factors all hitting at once that caused them to have problems, yes?

 

[smithed64]

No, I'm going by statistics.

So, they are always correct?

 

[Skavau]

So, they are always correct?

You can look for yourself on that link and scrutinise them if you like. It's well known, on a variety of metrics and from a variety of sources that Northern European countries tend to dominate the top places to live.

 

[smithed64]

So we agree that you can hardly blame Greece on "socialism" since it was multiple factors all hitting at once that caused them to have problems, yes?

All the factors that hit at once. Where in part of the political situation.
1. They paid rent for everyone.
2. They paid education for everyone.
3. They handed out immunity to certain laws like it was candy.

The Government which start liberal in the 80's went to populist then back to liberal, also went from a single party country to a dual party government. it went kind of nuts.
They spent money they didn't have, they borrowed for Germany they never intended to pay back and they didn't pay taxes.

Sounds like socialism.

So your right I do agree, that different factors happened to make the economy fail.
But all those factors fall under socialism. Trying to live under the umbrella of Big Government, who will regulate the skin right off you...but regulates the government...?

 

[smithed64]

You can look for yourself on that link and scrutinise them if you like. It's well known, on a variety of metrics and from a variety of sources that Northern European countries tend to dominate the top places to live.

I don't doubt you.
I doubt stats.
This is your opinion, according to stats.
Not that it is wrong...but would rather know someone from there. I don't.

 

[Skavau]

I don't doubt you.
I doubt stats.
This is your opinion, according to stats.
Not that it is wrong...but would rather know someone from there. I don't.

This is what I would call biased skepticism. You have prejudice against socialism. I inform you that across most categories reported by many sources, democratic socialist countries with a strong welfare state, high taxation and public services have high standards of living.

I suspect you'd be less skeptical if I said that more free market orientated nations were all up in the top 10.

 

[LoAmmi]

All the factors that hit at once. Where in part of the political situation.
1. They paid rent for everyone.
2. They paid education for everyone.
3. They handed out immunity to certain laws like it was candy.

The Government which start liberal in the 80's went to populist then back to liberal, also went from a single party country to a dual party government. it went kind of nuts.
They spent money they didn't have, they borrowed for Germany they never intended to pay back and they didn't pay taxes.

Sounds like socialism.

So your right I do agree, that different factors happened to make the economy fail.
But all those factors fall under socialism. Trying to live under the umbrella of Big Government, who will regulate the skin right off you...but regulates the government...?

They overreached, certainly, but I'll point out that other Democratic Socialist countries did not fail when the 2008 crisis hit. Greece seems to have made a large number of other mistakes that those countries did not.

Borrowing a lot and not paying it back and not paying taxes does *not* sound like socialism. No offense intended, but you don't seem to actually know what socialism is.

 

[MorkandMindy]

I'm starting to wonder here if 'socialism' isn't just another way of saying 'government funded'?

That any government action is socialist, so socialism is just whatever the size of the government is.

Basically to give up socialism you would have to live a self sufficient life in a log cabin out in Montana off the grid.

 

[TerranceL]

I thought this would be about Giant Meteor.

How has no one made a "Don't blame me, I voted for Giant Meteor" bumper sticker yet?

Pfft.

Cthulhu for president bro.

 

[smithed64]

This is what I would call biased skepticism. You have prejudice against socialism. I inform you that across most categories reported by many sources, democratic socialist countries with a strong welfare state, high taxation and public services have high standards of living.

I suspect you'd be less skeptical if I said that more free market orientated nations were all up in the top 10.

Not skeptical about it at all. Just don't like it. And it's proven to fail time and time again.
Yes, they do have a high standard of living and that is for those at the top of the economic pyramid. Those who were middle class are no more. The poor stay poor, because of that taxation.
I won't work here.

 

[Skavau]

Not skeptical about it at all. Just don't like it. And it's proven to fail time and time again.
Yes, they do have a high standard of living and that is for those at the top of the economic pyramid. Those who were middle class are no more. The poor stay poor, because of that taxation.
I won't work here.

Uh, no, the high standard of living in Norway, Sweden, Finland etc is NOT just for those at the "top of the pyramid". How do you even know that? They're highly modern countries with large safety nets and minimum standards that prevent their population living in squalor.

You told me earlier that because I don't live in Scandinavia that I can't make any observations - yet you can?

 

[smithed64]

Uh, no, the high standard of living in Norway, Sweden, Finland etc is NOT just for those at the "top of the pyramid". How do you even know that? They're highly modern countries with large safety nets and minimum standards that prevent their population living in squalor.

You told me earlier that because I don't live in Scandinavia that I can't make any observations - yet you can?

If I did that, your correct on what you say. I can't.

I mean to speak of socialism only.
But what I can say is this. We are a different people, different customs, culture and personalities. What may work in one country may not work in ours. Socialism will not work in this country.
85 percent of America was against Obamacare. A major move in the socialist world.
When the government starts telling you what to do..it's just a small step for them to start moving in to your home..more.
We are to independent of a country.

 

[Skavau]

If I did that, your correct on what you say. I can't.

I mean to speak of socialism only.
But what I can say is this. We are a different people, different customs, culture and personalities. What may work in one country may not work in ours. Socialism will not work in this country.
85 percent of America was against Obamacare. A major move in the socialist world.
When the government starts telling you what to do..it's just a small step for them to start moving in to your home..more.
We are to independent of a country.

We have more government than yours, and we're not under the foot of an authoritarian regime.

 

[smithed64]

We have more government than yours, and we're not under the foot of an authoritarian regime.

What country?

 

[Skavau]

What country?

United Kingdom

 

[smithed64]

United Kingdom

Yeah, I've heard good and bad about the UK just as you have heard about here.
But as I said. Never lived there, so don't have anything to say about it.

But I do know Americans, because I'm here. Socialism wont work. Oh, they'll try to get it going...there may be some things that pass...Obamacare for example....but it isn't a full consensus