What denomination is the closest to early Christians? Is messianic Judaism the only way?

[pat34lee]

Acts of the Apostles 20:7 deals with the day of worship. You know also that Paul preached that we are not to be judged in the matter of meats, days, and etc. because we are now under the new covenant. I realize that our posts also touched upon some other matters.

They met all days. I don't see "And God said, let the Sabbath
now be changed to the first day." That means whoever did it
wasn't God, and had no authority to change it.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

... wrong section... deleted.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

...wrong section....

 

[pat34lee]

It sounds to me that I'm not supposed to judge other people for observing the Sabbath day when they feel they should. But people are not supposed to judge me for observing the Sabbath day on a different day then them. It sounds like we will be judged just for judging other people, unless they are living a sinful lifestyle. But if people are trying to please God, we have no right to judge. Right?

This isn't about the weekly Sabbath. There are others, and not all
people follow them the same way. As for judging, would you rather
have someone teach you or wait until God tells you that you've been
doing it wrong for however long, but now it's too late to change?

 

[CrystalDragon]

per the op,
or title question,
none of these are practicing even close to
the ekklesia in Scripture.




Tradition teaches this.
But it contradicts Scripture.

How does it contradict Scripture? Jesus said to Peter "Upon this rock I will build my Church", so it can be traced back to Jesus.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

...wrong section...

 

[Albion]

They met all days. I don't see "And God said, let the Sabbath
now be changed to the first day." That means whoever did it
wasn't God, and had no authority to change it.

I really don't see any historical evidence of the earliest Christians observing the Lord's Supper every day of the week--and that's exactly how this passage is normally interpreted, as a reference to worship services.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

...wrong section...

 

[gadar perets]

Acts of the Apostles 20:7 deals with the day of worship.

That verse says nothing about Sunday being a new day of worship or that the 7th day Sabbath is no longer to be kept holy.

Acts 20:7 - And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

What does it mean to "break bread"? Does it mean to take "the Lord's supper" on Sunday? According to Acts 2:42-46, "breaking bread" was done daily. It simply means to have a meal. In Acts 20:7, the disciples finished Sabbath services on Saturday. After the sun set ending Sabbath and beginning the first day of the week, they had a meal together followed by Paul's preaching until midnight Sunday (our Saturday night). The disciples held this special gathering because their beloved Paul was to leave the next morning (vs. 7). In the morning, he had planned to walk approx. 10 miles to Assos. Notice he would not take this strenuous, tiring trip on Sabbath, but waited instead until Sunday, another work day.

 

[Albion]

Well, it's an issue that's open for debate because we know that the earliest Christians did have non-sacramental meals together--agape meals--separate from the Holy Meal.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

...wrong section...

 

[ripple the car]

Gadar, nothing in the NT requires us to keep the Mosaic Law. Christ commands us to obey *His* commandments, but not to obey all of the Law of Moses. If we seek to obey dietary laws, we must obey the whole thing.

The Law of Moses is not simply what we now call the Ten Commandments. It's everything. Literally everything. Parts of the Law were never meant to vanish. It's all or nothing, Sir, if we do things right. Which is why it makes no sense to rest on the Sabbath and avoid treyf foods yet have no system in place for daily sacrifices to be offered on your behalf. This is why imho Messiah fulfils it all. We don't have to keep Kosher, but are asked to avoid divorce and remarriage, hatred, idolatry, and to love our enemies, headcover (for Sisters), and let no unclean communication proceed out of our mouths. It's a new Torah. Torah, but Messianic, not Mosaic.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

...wrong section...

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

...wrong section...

 

[ripple the car]

Y'SHUA never ate anything contrary to TORAH.

Y'SHUA'S disciples never ate anything contrary to TORAH.

Today those who abide in and follow and obey Y'SHUA never eat anything contrary to TORAH,

NOR ANYTHING that causes other weak believers to stumble. (like YHWH SAID and like the Apostle of YHWH said clearly - do not do anything to destroy the conscience or faith of a weak believer).

Sir, the only thing Scripture describes Yeshua and His disciples eating are bread, fish, wine, and honey. Nothing in the text spells out that this means that we must keep Kosher, or only eat bread, fish, wine, and honey.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

...wrong section...

 

[ripple the car]

My point is, my Dad was Jewish. That could arguably make me a Messianic Jew. Yet I find the Gentiles dedicated to Torah get more worried about Sabbath, foods, cloth, and festivals than most ethnic Jews who believe in Christ. That's kind of weird. It's like, you may be half Mizrachi and a quarter Buchari and a quarter Ashkenazi, and your name might be Shoshana Lev, but if you like pepperoni on your pizza and adore Jesus as the Jewish Messiah, there's something wrong with you. Because the Goyim who don't go to work on Saturday are more Jewish than you, and must love and "get" Yeshua more. It's an odd feeling.

 

[gadar perets]

Gadar, nothing in the NT requires us to keep the Mosaic Law. Christ commands us to obey *His* commandments, but not to obey all of the Law of Moses. If we seek to obey dietary laws, we must obey the whole thing.

You have that backwards. The OT requires Israel to keep the Mosaic Law. We are members of the commonwealth of Israel. Nothing in the NT requires us to abandon it. If you do not have Scriptural support to abolish the Mosaic Law, then it stands just as Paul wrote in Romans 3:31;

Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish (make to stand) the law.​

The Law of Moses is not simply what we now call the Ten Commandments. It's everything. Literally everything. Parts of the Law were never meant to vanish. It's all or nothing, Sir, if we do things right. Which is why it makes no sense to rest on the Sabbath and avoid treyf foods yet have no system in place for daily sacrifices to be offered on your behalf. This is why imho Messiah fulfils it all. We don't have to keep Kosher, but are asked to avoid divorce and remarriage, hatred, idolatry, and to love our enemies, headcover (for Sisters), and let no unclean communication proceed out of our mouths. It's a new Torah. Torah, but Messianic, not Mosaic.

Yeshua is our daily sacrifice. His blood is constantly cleansing those who confess their sins. That is the system Yahweh put in place. He did not abolish the system that tells us we have sinned. The Mosaic Law provides the knowledge of sin. Without it, we cannot know we have sinned. If we don't know we have sinned, then we cannot go to Yeshua to be cleansed. Oh, how diabolical Satan is!

 

[gadar perets]

My point is, my Dad was Jewish. That could arguably make me a Messianic Jew. Yet I find the Gentiles dedicated to Torah get more worried about Sabbath, foods, cloth, and festivals than most ethnic Jews who believe in Christ. That's kind of weird. It's like, you may be half Mizrachi and a quarter Buchari and a quarter Ashkenazi, and your name might be Shoshana Lev, but if you like pepperoni on your pizza and adore Jesus as the Jewish Messiah, there's something wrong with you. Because the Goyim who don't go to work on Saturday are more Jewish than you, and must love and "get" Yeshua more. It's an odd feeling.

It comes down to how much you hate sin (transgression of the Law - 1 John 3:4) and how much you love Yahweh (demonstrated by keeping His commandments - 1 John 5:3). The more you hate sin and love Yahweh, the more you will be diligent to guard the commandments so they are not broken.

 

[CherubRam]

The Catholic Church claims that by reason of succession they are the head of all churches. It was the Judaic Christians whom had the original scriptures of the disciples. The Catholic's burned the original scriptures and rewrote them; and they killed the Judaic Christians.

I thought the Catholic Church was the one founded by Jesus and Peter and thus is the true Church.