UChicago - "We don't do safe spaces and trigger Warnings

[eastcoast_bsc]

I think we are talking about the free expression of ideas. There are schools that won't allow a speaker to come in because of their views on controversial subjects. Then there are views that may be expressed in the classroom by a student or a teacher that might cause hurt feelings, or anger, or who knows. No student should be harassed or get a bad grade because their paper doesn't agree with a teachers ideology. You can't limit someones free speech because someone else doesn't agree with it or because it makes them angry. These are just some general examples. Workplace is different. Depending on the topic, I have to mind my Ps and Qs because I am getting a paycheck. But a worker has right to file charges against an employer when their rights are violated.

I don't think they read anything. They just wanted to say that I didn't cite or provide numbers. My link clearly provided valid statistics. But that would mean they needed to read the information.

 

[MikeK]

I don't think they read anything. They just wanted to say that I didn't cite or provide numbers. My link clearly provided valid statistics. But that would mean they needed to read the information.

Who is "they"? I didn't ask anything about cites or statistics. Clearly you see an issue with this generation that you find problematic, can you talk about some things you're personally doing to help these kids and whether the measures you're taking have helped?

 

[MoonlessNight]

What's wrong with speech codes? I have never experienced an employer or educator that did not have at least some rules, weather written or just generally understood, limiting speech that would be likely to hurt others. Everyone posting in this forum is voluntarily subjecting themselves to one.

Speech codes per se are not a problem, but even the best codes have the potential to be used as a weapon rather than as a way of keeping discussion reasonable. Therefore when constructing such codes, if the purpose of them is to make sure that discussions remain reasonable, the code should be arranged with minimization the possibility for gaming it as a weapon. The longer codes are and the vaguer they are, the more that they can be gamed. Additionally if codes refer to personal feelings (e.g. "we do not accept speech which makes others feel uncomfortable") rather than reasonably objective terms (e.g. "we do not accept speech supporting ideologies of racial supremacy") allow codes to be gamed far more easily.

If a speech code is complex, vague, or primarily subjective it will eventually be used as a weapon. This is because no one will be able to say definitively that any individual action definitely is or is not allowed by the code (since it will be too difficult to apply the code, or the code won't be clear, or it will depend on those involved) which means that it is easy for people to claim that those they like are acting in accordance with the code while those they dislike are flagrantly violating it.

The only escape would be if the code had no protocol for enforcing anything. If it can actually be enforced, some committee will have to decide how it is enforced on a case by case basis, which can easily be to their benefit. Indeed it is almost inevitable that the committee will end up acting this way, as the people who intend to abuse such power will be most attracted to it (seriously, how many normal people care at all either way about speech codes?) and once they are there they can abuse their power to slowly get rid of any opponents that might hinder them.

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

Good for UChicago. These young snow flakes need a comeuppance.

Am I the only one who thinks this sounds racial ?

I'm not saying Eastie mean anything by it but I'm a little confused by the colloquial use of "snowflake" combined with the dog whistle word "comeuppance"

 

[MoonlessNight]

I'm not saying Eastie mean anything by it but I'm a little confused by the colloquial use of "snowflake" combined with the dog whistle word "comeuppance"

The term "snowflake" comes from the idea that every snowflake is unique. Thus a "special snowflake" is someone who obnoxiously talks about how unique he is, and demands that everyone else meet his unique needs. I suppose it helps the imagery that snowflakes are rather fragile.

I have never seen anyone ever suggest a racial component to the phrase, and I occasionally visit sites where people will openly use racial slurs.

In fact, unless it is supposed to be a slur against white people since snowflakes are white, I have trouble imagining how anyone could come to the conclusion that such a term was racially motivated.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

The term "snowflake" comes from the idea that every snowflake is unique. Thus a "special snowflake" is someone who obnoxiously talks about how unique he is, and demands that everyone else meet his unique needs. I suppose it helps the imagery that snowflakes are rather fragile.

I have never seen anyone ever suggest a racial component to the phrase, and I occasionally visit sites where people will openly use racial slurs.

In fact, unless it is supposed to be a slur against white people since snowflakes are white, I have trouble imagining how anyone could come to the conclusion that such a term was racially motivated.

Lets not ruin Charlies imagined grievances.

He does make my points. If I was a college student I would have been dragged before a tribunal and then hounded off campus because of voicing my thoughts.

Speech codes would not allow me to use the words snowflake or comeuppance.

Thanks Charlie!

 

[MikeK]

I don't know any college students or recent grads who have the "snowflake" attitudes talked about in this thread. Not even one. The young Engineers, Industrial Designers, Marketing professionals and so on that I'm blessed to know are a very impressive lot. Far more mature and less impressed by material things than I was at their age.

 

[Cimorene]

It is the way it is supposed to be. Colege is supposed to be about learning and being exposed to other ideas with a skillset of being able to degend a point.

A comeuppance for the little brats that think the world revolves around them.

Good for UChicago. These young snow flakes need a comeuppance.





http://chicagoist.com/2016/08/25/a_letter_sent_by_the.php

My sister goes to the U of C. STUDENTS are actually the ones most against hugboxing!! Sure there are some students there who wanted safe spaces, trigger warnings, etc, but most sees all that as infantilizing nonsense. So no, not a comeuppance. It's one of the hardest schools to get into in the world, so it's not a place with precious snowflakes who think they can get whatever they want without getting up & working for it.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

My sister goes to the U of C. STUDENTS are actually the ones most against hugboxing!! Sure there are some students there who wanted safe spaces, trigger warnings, etc, but most sees all that as infantilizing nonsense. So no, not a comeuppance. It's one of the hardest schools to get into in the world, so it's not a place with precious snowflakes who think they can get whatever they want without getting up & working for it.

A lot of the kids at good schools are silver spooned and very liberal. In my area we have Harvard and MIT. They have shouted down speakers with whom they disagree with. They also have speech codes.

Your sister I am sure is an upstanding young lady, but quite a few of the students at U Chicago are from very well to do families.


I actually visited U Chicago way back. It is in a very rough area called Hyde Park. I sat in on a class and visited the city.
Nice school.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

But you may be interested that the group FIRE founded by Harvey Silvergate a renowned constitutional lawyer amnd free speech advocate and Harvard professor gave U Chicago a green light their highest award for free speech on campus.

Good for U Chicago.

 

[Cimorene]

A lot of the kids at good schools are silver spooned and very liberal. In my area we have Harvard and MIT. They have shouted down speakers with whom they disagree with. They also have speech codes.

Your sister I am sure is an upstanding young lady, but quite a few of the students at U Chicago are from very well to do families.


I actually visited U Chicago way back. It is in a very rough area called Hyde Park. I sat in on a class and visited the city.
Nice school.

Even the kids who are from wealthy families worked extremely hard to get in. It has need-blind admissions. Some of her friends there grew up very poor. I'm wanting to go there too & that's why all my classes in the 11th grade are university-level already. You can't get in without earning it. I think there are students at almost every school who think they're snowflakes.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

This in todays news:

Students in at least one Rutgers University residence hall are being encouraged to use only language that is “helpful” and “necessary” to avoid committing microaggressions.

The board warns students that failing to follow these guidelines could lead them to commit a microaggression, which include “microassaults,” “microinsults,” and “microinvalidations.”

http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=8081

 

[MikeK]

Using only helpful and necessary language sounds like a pretty good idea. It can be hard to communicate our frustrations, but with dicipline we an be civil and avoid hurting others unjustly.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

Students at Duke University’s Sanford School of Public Policy can take refuge in a new safe space

The room, literally called the “Sanford Safe Space,” will make its debut this year in a former faculty office turned safe space, reports The Duke Chronicle student newspaper.

Duke University spokeswoman Karen Kemp confirmed the Chronicle article is correct, but did not have further comment to The College Fix.

“It’s the first day of classes, and the professors who lead the school’s diversity and inclusion committee aren’t available to chat further about this,” Kemp stated in an email to The Fix. “They commented that their views and the purpose of the space are covered in the article.”

http://www.thecollegefix.com/post/28844/

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

Using only helpful and necessary language sounds like a pretty good idea. It can be hard to communicate our frustrations, but with dicipline we an be civil and avoid hurting others unjustly.

I feel your response is a microinsult.

 

[LoAmmi]

This in todays news:










http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=8081

I do wonder what's going to happen to a lot of these kids when they get out of school and quickly realize the world isn't lining up to kiss their butt.

 

[MikeK]

I feel your response is a microinsult.

I suspect you're being snarky, but I don't understand why that's your response. What specifically about my statement do you disagree with? I kinda think that you're reacting to who I am rather than what I said.

 

[MikeK]

I do wonder what's going to happen to a lot of these kids when they get out of school and quickly realize the world isn't lining up to kiss their butt.

They'll figure it out and they'll sink or they'll swim. It will be for these college grads as it was for all those who came before them. Some, probably most, will thrive. Many will not. The best and hardest working and most ambitious and most mentally-tough will become tomorrow's leaders. Some will make an honest living and nothing more. Some will wash out of everything they ever try to do and blame others for their misfortune. Same as it ever was.

 

[LoAmmi]

They'll figure it out and they'll sink or they'll swim. It will be for these college grads as it was for all those who came before them. Some, probably most, will thrive. Many will not. The best and hardest working and most ambitious and most mentally-tough will become tomorrow's leaders. Some will make an honest living and nothing more. Some will wash out of everything they ever try to do and blame others for their misfortune. Same as it ever was.

I have issues with colleges these days shying away from topics. Intellectual pursuit should cover all topics, even those disturbing. It'd be like learning German history but not learning about the 30s and 40s because it "triggers" you.

 

[MikeK]

I have issues with colleges these days shying away from topics. Intellectual pursuit should cover all topics, even those disturbing. It'd be like learning German history but not learning about the 30s and 40s because it "triggers" you.

Agreed. Thankfully, from what I've seen students are generally finishing college as well-rounded, responsible adults. I have not observed the "snowflake" phenomonon spoken of in this thread. I am certain that such people exist, but I have not seen it first hand and I don't believe it's a widespread issue. The only people I've personally known that have trigger issues and have requested accommodations have been combat veterans.