Sola scriptura

[W2L]

Being here doesn't mean you're not divided. You are your own denomination. Stating a fact isn't tearing it down. You commit a sin. This is not gathering together. You will NEVER be able to gather on a computer. Do you think that the early Christians simply sent letters back and forth without ever gathering together, claiming that the sins of the people in the gatherings were too much for them to come together with them? That's true in the same way that I am a moose.

To gather together with the brethren is to go to where they are. If you can't point to where you gather with the brethren on a map, then you don't gather with them.

So when I say you disobey Paul, I say it because you make denominationalism an EXCUSE. Did Paul tell the Corinthians not to gather together because of their denominationalism? No. You cannot complain about denominationalism when you denominate yourself.

I commit a sin because I'm not EO. isn't that what you really mean? After all, you wouldn't be telling me to go to an SDA church would you? That's not the "true" church is it?

I have faith in the Lord, I turned my life of depression and anxiety in to hope and joy, I gave him my weakness and got his strength. You cant shackle me with your chains of oppression. Go ahead, keep telling me what a sinner I am, i'll just praise the Lord and talk about the good things he has done for me. We can do that for the next 2000 pages. I don't care. You can talk about how its sin not to be EO and i'll talk about my love for Jesus.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I didn't lie about you. Everyone has traditions......

So you continue to lie about me. And bear false witness about me.
You who go against God's Word directly, and think it is okay because
a man told you so. (maybe 20 years ago? maybe they take care of you ? doesn't matter)
That is the difference between right and wrong. (practices, traditions, truth, beliefs)
God gave us and guards His Perfect Word, as the standard (contrary to man's traditions).
As long as you believe in and won't give up on man's traditions, you dishonor God's Word and God Himself.

Put God FIRST --- then you can practice some traditions without sinning.
But if you put sin first, and then try to honor God without repenting, that just doesn't work.

 

[W2L]

What he said

 

[sculleywr]

I commit a sin because I'm not EO. isn't that what you really mean? After all, you wouldn't be telling me to go to an SDA church would you? That's not the "true" church is it?

I have faith in the Lord, I turned my life of depression and anxiety in to hope and joy, I gave him my weakness and got his strength. You cant shackle me with your chains of oppression. Go ahead, keep telling me what a sinner I am, i'll just praise the Lord and talk about the good things he has done for me. We can do that for the next 2000 pages. I don't care. You can talk about how its sin not to be EO and i'll talk about my love for Jesus.

I never said because you're not EO. I said because you refuse to gather together with ANY group of Christians. You are the one bringing the denominations into the mix. You are the one arguing, off-topic I might add, that I'm trying to "shackle you". You have shackled yourself. How can you experience the full blessing of God if you won't even give the most minor attempt to obey such a basic command that is available at pretty much any gathering of any denomination? My reason for not gathering together in community worship is borne out of health and finances. It's kinda hard to drive a car when you're on muscle relaxers, pain killers, and immunomodulators. Your reason is borne out of self.

Christ Himself said "If ye love me, keep my commandments."

Well, it is a command of Jesus Christ to gather together. We can talk about denominations until we are blue in the face, but the fact is that no man can be the Church alone. The Church is a gathering. No matter what you say, it will always be an excuse. You do not see me using this against YSJ or Albion or anyone else on this that is part of some church group. Not in the way I speak against the claim you make, because at least they have a Body to call the Church.

 

[sculleywr]

So you continue to lie about me. And bear false witness about me.
You who go against God's Word directly, and think it is okay because
a man told you so. (maybe 20 years ago? maybe they take care of you ? doesn't matter)
That is the difference between right and wrong. (practices, traditions, truth, beliefs)
God gave us and guards His Perfect Word, as the standard (contrary to man's traditions).
As long as you believe in and won't give up on man's traditions, you dishonor God's Word and God Himself.

Put God FIRST --- then you can practice some traditions without sinning.
But if you put sin first, and then try to honor God without repenting, that just doesn't work.

I'm not lying. You have traditions. It's nice that you cut off the part of the argument that proves it. Of course, all you're interested in is attacking me and lying about whether I am lying.

Stand Fast, and hold to the Traditions which we have taught you, whether by word, or by our epistle.
II Thessalonians 2:15

When choosing between your traditions and the Apostolic Tradition, the choice for me is easy.

 

[W2L]

I never said because you're not EO. I said because you refuse to gather together with ANY group of Christians. You are the one bringing the denominations into the mix. You are the one arguing, off-topic I might add, that I'm trying to "shackle you". You have shackled yourself. How can you experience the full blessing of God if you won't even give the most minor attempt to obey such a basic command that is available at pretty much any gathering of any denomination? My reason for not gathering together in community worship is borne out of health and finances. It's kinda hard to drive a car when you're on muscle relaxers, pain killers, and immunomodulators. Your reason is borne out of self.

Christ Himself said "If ye love me, keep my commandments."

Well, it is a command of Jesus Christ to gather together. We can talk about denominations until we are blue in the face, but the fact is that no man can be the Church alone. The Church is a gathering. No matter what you say, it will always be an excuse. You do not see me using this against YSJ or Albion or anyone else on this that is part of some church group. Not in the way I speak against the claim you make, because at least they have a Body to call the Church.

You have already made it known to everyone that you believe EO is the true church and the others are corrupted. You cant tell me to go to any Church besides EO because then you tell me to join a corrupt church. That's a fallacy.

Anyway. I'm like a lot of people in this world, I have many problems. I don't socialize much. However, if not for the Lord I would have no joy and no peace, but the Lord is faithful. I'm not ashamed of that and I'm glad to share it with anyone online who would listen. I don't really care if you agree with it or not. I come here for fellowship, if that's not good enough for you then that's your problem not mine brother.

You can talk all you want about how I forsake the assembly but at least I don't come online and argue that my church is the "true" church and all others are corrupt. At least I try to do something useful, I try to show that there is hope in any situation, and God is able to sustain anyone, in any place, at any time. I prefer my testimony over yours. I don't need to argue over sacraments or denominations, I just share how generous the Lord is with this poor man.

I try to promote unity not division, and faith/hope not condemnation, love not contention. That's what the Lord taught me. What he teach you? To come online and argue against anyone that's not EO?

 

[sculleywr]

You have already made it known to everyone that you believe EO is the true church and the others are corrupted. You cant tell me to go to any Church besides EO because then you tell me to join a corrupt church. That's a fallacy.

Anyway. I'm like a lot of people in this world, I have many problems. I don't socialize much. However, if not for the Lord I would have no joy and no peace, but the Lord is faithful. I'm not ashamed of that and I'm glad to share it with anyone online who would listen. I don't really care if you agree with it or not. I come here for fellowship, if that's not good enough for you then that's your problem not mine brother.

You can talk all you want about how I forsake the assembly but at least I don't come online and argue that my church is the "true" church and all others are corrupt. At least I try to do something useful, I try to show that there is hope in any situation, and God is able to sustain anyone, in any place, at any time. I prefer my testimony over yours. I don't need to argue over sacraments or denominations, I just share how generous the Lord is with this poor man.

I try to about unity not division, and faith/hope not condemnation, love not contention. That's what the Lord taught me. What he teach you? To come online and argue against anyone that's not EO?

The true Church statement is no different than the Apostles or those who followed them. If you can't tell me exactly where the argument that one Church was the True Church, then you haven't any ground. You seem to be under the illusion that the true Church argument has any relevance to the obedience of Christ's command, or the very small attempt at obedience. in this case, you are trying to defend your refusal to obey Christ's command of assembly, which is itself a creation of division and contention, with the statement that my argument that the Church was established by Christ (Matthew 16:18) to be the Pillar and Ground of the Truth (I Timothy 3:15) that is built on the foundation of the Apostles and the Prophets (Ephesians 2:20), with one unified Faith, one Baptism, and one Christ (Ephesians 4:3-6), is a reason for you to disobey Christ. That is called Ad Hominem Tu Quoque. And it's not even a good tu quoque, because while my argument can be supported from both Scripture and Tradition, yours is a direct and intentional disobedience to Christ's command. It is telling that in your defense, you never show an example in Scripture saying you can forsake the assembling of the brethren if you think they cause divisions. You only bring up excuse after excuse after excuse.

Even if my argument WAS a violation of the Scripture, it does not justify your position. If Jeffrey Dahmer, for instance, were to tell you that killing people was a violation of the ten commandments, he would not be wrong simply because he committed murder. What would make him wrong is if the Ten Commandments didn't condemn murder.

Your position is a violation of Scripture, not because of the denominations that exist, nor because of my stance on which Church is true. It is a violation of Scripture because Scripture commands the assembly of the brethren be done by ALL who claim to love Christ. If you truly loved Christ, then you would not disobey Him.

To the side of that, however, you've never even been in an Orthodox Church, according to all that you've said. You've never seen the services or fellowshiped with the people there. When it comes down to it, you won't test the spirits. You've already made your mind up, with no tests of any kind performed.

 

[sculleywr]

I might add that the reason for coming on a website that is geared for debates pretty much means that people are going to debate here. There are threads on here where people can do other things. However, what you see in these threads, @W2L, is only one small segment of my life. You don't see the 90% of the rest of my life. So talking about my debating on here as if it's the only thing I do is like someone on Runescape yapping at me as if Runescape is all I do in my life. Not only is it short-sighted and false, but it is also quite hypocritical. You're on a debate site and you are debating.

 

[W2L]

I might add that the reason for coming on a website that is geared for debates pretty much means that people are going to debate here. There are threads on here where people can do other things. However, what you see in these threads, @W2L, is only one small segment of my life. You don't see the 90% of the rest of my life. So talking about my debating on here as if it's the only thing I do is like someone on Runescape yapping at me as if Runescape is all I do in my life. Not only is it short-sighted and false, but it is also quite hypocritical. You're on a debate site and you are debating.

I know, without EO we are all following a false Church, and without that Church we are hopelessly lost. Very graceful and edifying message brother.

 

[sculleywr]

I know, without EO we are all following a false Church, and without that Church we are hopelessly lost. Very graceful and edifying message brother.

That is not what I said nor what the Orthodox Church teaches. The nature of the Church is not a determining factor of individual salvation. The nature of the Church does not guarantee salvation to those who simply claim membership or receive of the Sacraments. Nor does it say those outside the Church are not saved. It says this is the only place where salvation is REVEALED to man in its fullest extent. Even those within the borders of the Orthodox Church are not guaranteed salvation based on reception of the Sacraments. The Sacraments only equip us for salvation. If we do not use the equipment and grace received through them, we will not be saved. If we do not follow the commands of Christ to repent, we will not be saved.

But the sinfulness of individuals has no effect on the Body of Christ, because the Body of Christ in its militant earthly form receives its nature and authority from its Head: Jesus Christ.

 

[W2L]

That is not what I said nor what the Orthodox Church teaches. The nature of the Church is not a determining factor of individual salvation. The nature of the Church does not guarantee salvation to those who simply claim membership or receive of the Sacraments. Nor does it say those outside the Church are not saved. It says this is the only place where salvation is REVEALED to man in its fullest extent. Even those within the borders of the Orthodox Church are not guaranteed salvation based on reception of the Sacraments. The Sacraments only equip us for salvation. If we do not use the equipment and grace received through them, we will not be saved. If we do not follow the commands of Christ to repent, we will not be saved.

But the sinfulness of individuals has no effect on the Body of Christ, because the Body of Christ in its militant earthly form receives its nature and authority from its Head: Jesus Christ.

I may not have a Church but I come here, I may not be able to boast in Church attendance, or great works, but I can boast in the Lords generosity. God loves me, and although I don't fit the traditional stereotype of a Christian, I know there are plenty of folks in the world like me. They need hope and love. God doesn't forsake me and I don't forsake the assembly. God knows my heart, he knows my struggle, my pain, my need for Him and for perseverance. I have nothing to boast in but Gods love. He loves me and doesn't forsake me. That's my testimony. God helps this poor man, who has no church. I apologize that I don't have a denomination to debate about, and all have is simple faith. Not having a Church has humbled me, and helped me see that no matter where i am, God will sustain me.

 

[sculleywr]

I may not have a Church but I come here, I may not be able to boast in Church attendance, or great works, but I can boast in the Lords generosity. God loves me, and although I don't fit the traditional stereotype of a Christian, I know there are plenty of folks in the world like me. They need hope and love. God doesn't forsake me and I don't forsake the assembly. God knows my heart, he knows my struggle, my pain, my need for Him and for perseverance. I have nothing to boast in but Gods love. He loves me and doesn't forsake me. That's my testimony. God helps this poor man, who has no church. I apologize that I don't have a denomination to debate about, and all have is simple faith. Not having a Church has humbled me, and helped me see that no matter where i am, God will sustain me.

This is not assembling together with the brethren. It is replacing real fellowship with shallow, false fellowship.

You forsake the assembly. This is not an assembly. Assemblies don't need IP addresses and can't be shut down with an electromagnetic pulse or the owners deciding to hit the "off" switch. You are boasting in your being a division unto yourself. As for your claim to humility, Donald Trump made a claim to humility. Claiming humility is the opposite of what a humble person does. Christ never claimed once to be humble.

 

[W2L]

This is not assembling together with the brethren. It is replacing real fellowship with shallow, false fellowship.

You forsake the assembly. This is not an assembly. Assemblies don't need IP addresses and can't be shut down with an electromagnetic pulse or the owners deciding to hit the "off" switch. You are boasting in your being a division unto yourself. As for your claim to humility, Donald Trump made a claim to humility. Claiming humility is the opposite of what a humble person does. Christ never claimed once to be humble.

I find much value in any kind of fellowship. I come here, and I have studied scriptures and learned many things, over many years. I grew in Gods grace, I fought many dark battles of the mind and spirit, my faith has been purified and my fears have been cast out. I live and boast in Gods grace and am not ashamed or afraid to do so. The Lord has helped me persevere when all hope seemed lost, and the words of the apostle paul, king david, and our Lord, has guided me and the Lords spirit is with me. God doesn't forsake us, no matter what situation we are found in. God can share his spirit with whom ever he pleases, however he pleases, and its not up to you brother to dictate how he does that. You may think you know how God works but you don't. I use to have much fear and anxiety, I was a slave to it, and now I have grown in Gods grace. You cannot cast judgment on me, God is my judge. Let him judge me. I give glory to God and thank him for his unfailing love and faithfulness. His grace is more than you can put into a box.

 

[W2L]

Also, I never claimed to be humble, I said I have been humbled. There is a huge difference.

 

[sculleywr]

I find much value in any kind of fellowship. I come here, and I have studied scriptures and learned many things, over many years. I grew in Gods grace, I fought many dark battles of the mind and spirit, my faith has been purified and my fears have been cast out. I live and boast in Gods grace and am not ashamed or afraid to do so. The Lord has helped me persevere when all hope seemed lost, and the words of the apostle paul, king david, and our Lord, has guided me and the Lords spirit is with me. God doesn't forsake us, no matter what situation we are found in. God can share his spirit with whom ever he pleases, however he pleases, and its not up to you brother to dictate how he does that. You may think you know how God works but you don't. I use to have much fear and anxiety, I was a slave to it, and now I have grown in Gods grace. You cannot cast judgment on me, God is my judge. Let him judge me. I give glory to God and thank him for his unfailing love and faithfulness. His grace is more than you can put into a box.

God works how He declares that He works. He commanded the physical assembling of people together to worship Him. Not digital. Not metaphysical. I don't cast judgment. I state a fact. It is a fact that you do not assemble with the brethren. You are rationalizing.

And He will judge you. I am telling you now that fence that you claim is shackling me down is keeping me from falling off a cliff. The question is, would you rather be judged by God and found wanting without someone warning you that you are in direct disobedience to God? Or would you rather someone not warn you that you're driving off a cliff?

 

[sculleywr]

Also, I never claimed to be humble, I said I have been humbled. There is a huge difference.

Not really. To be humbled means to be made humble, or to become humble. So you claim to be humble. It's not really that big of a leap. You would be better off using the word "humiliated" if your desire is not to claim that you are humble.

 

[W2L]

God works how He declares that He works. He commanded the physical assembling of people together to worship Him. Not digital. Not metaphysical. I don't cast judgment. I state a fact. It is a fact that you do not assemble with the brethren. You are rationalizing.

And He will judge you. I am telling you now that fence that you claim is shackling me down is keeping me from falling off a cliff. The question is, would you rather be judged by God and found wanting without someone warning you that you are in direct disobedience to God? Or would you rather someone not warn you that you're driving off a cliff?

I'm not rationalizing, I'm worshipping. I'm not driving off a cliff, I already done that long ago. By Gods grace I am sustained daily. You see judgment I see hope, love and faith. The difference between us is that I have tasted what its like to be alone, and to find God in it. You are rationalizing debate, contention, division and your own blindness. I live by hope not fear. I was a slave to fear but no more. I turn from lust, lies and hopelessness, and I walk by faith not sight. Its funny how you appose sola scripture, yet its you who cling to the letter of the law, and me who steps out in faith. What bothers you so much is that I allowed scripture to be my teacher instead of your denomination, yet I live by the spirit, not the letter.

 

[W2L]

Not really. To be humbled means to be made humble, or to become humble. So you claim to be humble. It's not really that big of a leap. You would be better off using the word "humiliated" if your desire is not to claim that you are humble.

You would argue about any word, just to argue. I'm not concerned with your judgment, my praise comes from God not you. I don't mean to sound harsh but that's the way it is. I could go on about my understanding of humility, but you would use it against me, as you accuse me of boasting in pride, instead of being taught by humility. Step in my shoes, you will see what humility and hopeless feels like.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I am telling you now that fence that you claim is shackling me down is keeping me from falling off a cliff. The question is, would you rather be judged by God and found wanting without someone warning you that you are in direct disobedience to God?

It doesn't shackle you down -- you willingly refuse to obey God for whatever reason you have. You have chosen that your 'church' is more important that God's TRUTH and God's WORD and JESUS (JOHN 17).
So , no one who tells you the truth, can help you. You refuse to listen.

 

[sculleywr]

I'm not rationalizing, I'm worshipping. I'm not driving off a cliff, I already done that long ago. By Gods grace I am sustained daily. You see judgment I see hope, love and faith. The difference between us is that I have tasted what its like to be alone, and to find God in it. You are rationalizing debate, contention, division and your own blindness. I live by hope not fear. I was a slave to fear but no more. I turn from lust, lies and hopelessness, and I walk by faith not sight. Its funny how you appose sola scripture, yet its you who cling to the letter of the law, and me who steps out in faith. What bothers you so much is that I allowed scripture to be my teacher instead of your denomination, yet I live by the spirit, not the letter.

You replace the command of God with something that can be destroyed by man, very easily.

You call me following God's command directly out of Scripture as it was intended by the writers legalistic?

I have 5 acres of beachfront property to sell you in Tennessee if that is true. It's situated on the Indian Ocean, too!

The Fear of God is the beginning of wisdom.