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The brain is not sufficient for consciousness

FrumiousBandersnatch

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I would say so, and in fewer words :)
If the reason the perfect God didn't have to create imperfect stuff is that imperfect stuff was already there for Him to use, then God didn't create everything... is that really what you meant? Who created the imperfect stuff?
 
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miknik5

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The name is intended to be ironic, I'm (mostly) harmless <smiley>
I know...I had to look it up...I didn't remember this mentioned in the Jabberwocky poem...

And that, actually is fitting to you...because your words are somewhat poetically smooth...
 
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com7fy8

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If the reason the perfect God didn't have to create imperfect stuff is that imperfect stuff was already there for Him to use,
Yes, I do mean this.
then God didn't create everything... is that really what you meant? Who created the imperfect stuff?
I mean He did not bring into existence the imperfect stuff which things are composed of. But He has brought imperfect stuff into various forms, so there is order and not total chaos of everything mixing haphazardly with everything.

For one example, God did not bring the spirit of evil into existence, but He keeps it in forms so it is in some sort of order. Our Apostle Paul does say there is "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience", in Ephesians 2:2. Satan is one sewer bucket of evil's pride and selfishness which are on their way to the flaming sewer which burns with fire and brimstone, in order that all his nasty filth will be away from whoever trusts in Jesus and stays with us for eternity.
 
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Eudaimonist

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But He has brought imperfect stuff into various forms, so there is order and not total chaos of everything mixing haphazardly with everything.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Mixing in what way? There are mixtures in the natural universe, or we wouldn't have a word for "mixture".


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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miknik5

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I'm not sure what you mean by this. Mixing in what way? There are mixtures in the natural universe, or we wouldn't have a word for "mixture".


eudaimonia,

Mark
Each day was ordered to bring forth what HE ordered.

And man wasn't there until the "6th day"...
Therefore there's a "gap" that man can't go back to because he wasn't there from the very beginning...

GOD did NOT say, let me create all these things in one day, and they were...
 
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miknik5

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Yes, I do mean this. I mean He did not bring into existence the imperfect stuff which things are composed of. But He has brought imperfect stuff into various forms, so there is order and not total chaos of everything mixing haphazardly with everything.

For one example, God did not bring the spirit of evil into existence, but He keeps it in forms so it is in some sort of order. Our Apostle Paul does say there is "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience", in Ephesians 2:2. Satan is one sewer bucket of evil's pride and selfishness which are on their way to the flaming sewer which burns with fire and brimstone, in order that all his nasty filth will be away from whoever trusts in Jesus and stays with us for eternity.
Does GOD want to really keep the evil?
Or did what HE initially made perfect become imperfect because we/adam/mankind listened to the voice of the "wrong father"?

Satan knew the plan from the beginning as well...he just didn't like the plan...

And satan, even today, knows that he is defeated, but he still has time, (until all things have been accomplished, that is) to go out and sow in seeds of confusion at every turn...
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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Yes, I do mean this. I mean He did not bring into existence the imperfect stuff which things are composed of. But He has brought imperfect stuff into various forms, so there is order and not total chaos of everything mixing haphazardly with everything.
Wait - if God did not create the imperfect stuff, who or what did create it? Or are you suggesting that the perfect can give rise to the imperfect (which was the original problem)?
 
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miknik5

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So the perfect can give rise to the imperfect?
I think we did have this discussion...
GOD created initially all things to be GOOD...but man influences man and man listens to many other voices and not only and just GOD'S VOICE...

GOD knew best what was best for HIS CHILDREN...
But...HIS CHILDREN felt that they knew better what was best for them...

We found out after it was too late...that it was too late to go back
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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I think we did have this discussion...
GOD created initially all things to be GOOD...but man influences man and man listens to many other voices and not only and just GOD'S VOICE...

GOD knew best what was best for HIS CHILDREN...
But...HIS CHILDREN felt that they knew better what was best for them...

We found out after it was too late...that it was too late to go back
Was that a 'Yes' ?
 
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Radrook

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There is this assumption that eventually mankind will unravel the mystery of how consciousness is produced and will enable a machine to experience it as is the case with the Androids depicted in such sci-fi films as Alien and Star Trek the Next Generation. When I first saw a chess-playing computer in a Twilight Zone episode I assumed it needed to be conscious. But as it turns out, all such computers are actually doing is rapidly albeit mindlessly crunching numbers. No ego or awareness involved whatsoever. But the casual way in which such machines are gifted with consciousness in these films gives the erroneous impression that it is a simple thing. Yet here we are in 2016 and as yet have no Hal as in 2001 a Space Odyssey.
 
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Radrook

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We don't have a base on the moon, either. It's hard to predict the future. But we do have flat imaging devices like the ones on Discovery One...

After the lunar landings, we had taken it for granted that a Lunar base was just around the corner since it seemed the most logical follow-through. So when they smugly showed the film 2001 A Space Odyssey with its majestic moon base sprawling across the lunar landscape we took it for granted that by the year 2001 it would be a certainty. No one at that stage imagined that the next fifty years would be spent circling the Earth in orbit. In fact, anyone suggesting such a thing at that time would have been considered certifiably insane.
 
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ToddNotTodd

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I think we did have this discussion...
GOD created initially all things to be GOOD...but man influences man and man listens to many other voices and not only and just GOD'S VOICE...

GOD knew best what was best for HIS CHILDREN...
But...HIS CHILDREN felt that they knew better what was best for them...

We found out after it was too late...that it was too late to go back

Or perhaps none of this is true...
 
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Radrook

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Wait - if God did not create the imperfect stuff, who or what did create it? Or are you suggesting that the perfect can give rise to the imperfect (which was the original problem)?
JWS describe unrepentant sin's effect on a perfect body to that of pouring sand into a flawless machine.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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Let's just say God knew from the beginning to the end where our steps were taking us
OK. A simple 'Yes', 'No', or 'I don't know', with or without qualification, would be reasonable answers, and the question itself could be rejected. But this...
 
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