How does one distinguish a 'belief' from a delusion?

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

So your unwillingness to pray to God and give Him a the benefit of the doubt and then to top it off laugh it off ... not much more I can say to you. Bye.

I don't pray to Allah, Brahman, Ahura Mazda, Queztalcoatl, Biame, Jupiter, Zeus, Breged, or any other gods or deities, because I think they're all imaginary. I'm guessing you don't believe in or pray to those gods or deities either. So I just believe in one less god than you

 

[razzelflabben]

We have that here and now, but not constantly, but of course the bible never said that would be constant. Then there is the different levels of hell theory, If God is fair, that is likely a fact and I need to get off this subject before I get in trouble.

lol...I so wanted to respond because it is a great discussion to have, but was thinking to myself, 'stay on topic'...as the saying goes, "great minds think alike."

 

[ToddNotTodd]

I do believe God is all knowing and all powerful, but he doesn't contradict himself. I also think your asking good questions that we should all honesty ask and seek answers to, but the answer must come from God Himself and not some man's ignorant interpretation of what God is saying.

But do you believe your god could not have created humans as intended from the outset? I'm fine with "I don't know" as an answer, but it doesn't seem very loving if it were indeed the case, right?

 

[razzelflabben]

But do you believe your god could not have created humans as intended from the outset? I'm fine with "I don't know" as an answer, but it doesn't seem very loving if it were indeed the case, right?

It seems when we actually study scripture that God did create mankind as He intended from the get go, but that has nothing at all to do with hell, so I'm not sure why you would bring it up in this goading you are doing trying to get everyone to talk about hell with you. Like I said, start another thread and invite us, it's a great discussion to have, when done right, very challenging to everyones personal ideas of hell and torment and God.

 

[Kenny'sID]

lol...I so wanted to respond because it is a great discussion to have, but was thinking to myself, 'stay on topic'...as the saying goes, "great minds think alike."

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Completely made up

Ok, you disagree with a large number of Christians. Good. I consider your view of hell as possibly like Florida in the summer much more palatable.

I'm beginning to think we need more designation among the theists here besides religion and denomination so we can begin conversations more informed.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

It seems when we actually study scripture that God did create mankind as He intended from the get go, but that has nothing at all to do with hell, so I'm not sure why you would bring it up in this goading you are doing trying to get everyone to talk about hell with you. Like I said, start another thread and invite us, it's a great discussion to have, when done right, very challenging to everyones personal ideas of hell and torment and God.

I'm not goading anyone. I'm asking his personal opinion about how he sees the god he believes in. Either loving or not loving. And how you can reconcile the idea of a god being loving and his idea that perhaps the Christian god is "evolving" humans.

 

[Chriliman]

But do you believe your god could not have created humans as intended from the outset? I'm fine with "I don't know" as an answer, but it doesn't seem very loving if it were indeed the case, right?

The question doesn't make sense to me because God is not done making humans into what he wants them to be. We're all a work in progress.

It's like finding fault in an artist's painting before he's finished with the painting and telling him he should have done it differently, when he's not even done yet. Except in this case, you are the painting.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

The question doesn't make sense to me because God is not done making humans into what he wants them to be. We're all a work in progress.

It's like finding fault in an artist's painting before he's finished with the painting and telling him he should have done it differently, when he's not even done yet. Except in this case, you are the painting.

If it's not making sense let me rephrase:

Do you think it's loving to send some of the "works in progress" to hell, even if the end result is humans that won't be sent to hell? Wouldn't it be more loving to either create humans "right" to begin with or create no humans at all.

For me, I wouldn't create "beta" people that would end up in a hell just to get to the "final product".

 

[razzelflabben]

If it's not making sense let me rephrase:

Do you think it's loving to send some of the "works in progress" to hell, even if the end result is humans that won't be sent to hell? Wouldn't it be more loving to either create humans "right" to begin with or create no humans at all.

For me, I wouldn't create "beta" people that would end up in a hell just to get to the "final product".

Haven't you repeatedly been told that pretty much all of us here agree that talk about hell is off topic and needs to be taken to another thread? Isn't continuing to pressure us for answers after we tell you this goading?

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Haven't you repeatedly been told that pretty much all of us here agree that talk about hell is off topic and needs to be taken to another thread? Isn't continuing to pressure us for answers after we tell you this goading?

Not until Chriliman says it goading, seeing as how I'm speaking to him and not you.

Actually, it seems to me like you're goading the other theists into not talking about it...

 

[razzelflabben]

Not until Chriliman says it goading, seeing as how I'm speaking to him and not you.

Actually, it seems to me like you're goading the other theists into not talking about it...

I wasn't the first to say I thought it was off topic, so whatever...

 

[ToddNotTodd]

I wasn't the first to say I thought it was off topic, so whatever...

What does being off topic have to do with anything?

 

[razzelflabben]

What does being off topic have to do with anything?

being off topic is against forum rules....you know, the rules we are suppose to be following

 

[ToddNotTodd]

being off topic is against forum rules....you know, the rules we are suppose to be following

I'm not seeing that rule. Can you repost it here?

 

[Hammster]

I'm not seeing that rule. Can you repost it here?

Statement of Purpose and Off-Topic
Read and abide by each forum's Statement of Purpose; Statement of Purpose threads are sticky threads located at the top of the forum's page. Not all forums have a Statement of Purpose thread. Start threads that are relevant to that forum's stated purpose. Submit replies that are relevant to the topic of discussion.

 

[razzelflabben]

Statement of Purpose and Off-Topic
Read and abide by each forum's Statement of Purpose; Statement of Purpose threads are sticky threads located at the top of the forum's page. Not all forums have a Statement of Purpose thread. Start threads that are relevant to that forum's stated purpose. Submit replies that are relevant to the topic of discussion.

thank you

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Statement of Purpose and Off-Topic
Read and abide by each forum's Statement of Purpose; Statement of Purpose threads are sticky threads located at the top of the forum's page. Not all forums have a Statement of Purpose thread. Start threads that are relevant to that forum's stated purpose. Submit replies that are relevant to the topic of discussion.

Thanks.

The "Guidelines for all Discussion and Debate Forums" only mentioned being off topic in relation to trolling, that is:

"...messages with the clear intention of provoking other members into an emotional response."

So I'll remember not to do that...

 

[Chriliman]

If it's not making sense let me rephrase:

Do you think it's loving to send some of the "works in progress" to hell, even if the end result is humans that won't be sent to hell? Wouldn't it be more loving to either create humans "right" to begin with or create no humans at all.

For me, I wouldn't create "beta" people that would end up in a hell just to get to the "final product".

I think it's loving to destroy all evil so that which is good and pure can reach it's full potential. No one but God can do that and that's why he deserves our worship and praise.

Hopefully you get the point because I don't want to take the thread off topic any longer.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

... I then ... to touch somewhat on the why's and that we couldn't always distinguish how it was belief or delusion, but it may not matter. However, maybe I was a little fuzzy there and didn't stick as close to topic as I thought.

What you described sounded very much like allowing your intuition (subconscious) guide you, much as Malcolm Gladwell describes in 'Blink'. Experiments have shown that when you have a certain familiarity or expertise in a context or subject, intuition (or subconscious cueing) can be very effective. The principle is similar to muscle memory where practising a particular physical skill (e.g. driving a car) eventually leads to it becoming automatic.

Problems arise with intuition in contexts about which you have little or no expertise, when the default heuristics used by what Daniel Kahneman calls 'System 1' thinking can be very misleading.

After some years in my career as a software developer, I found that I would sometimes get a bad feeling (sometimes called a 'bad smell') about some design or code suggestion, which I couldn't quite put my finger on. If the suggestion or code that 'smelt bad' was implemented, I'd quite often find a problem with it later that would trigger a spark of recognition - this was the 'bad smell' my subconscious had warned me about. Talking with other experienced developers showed I wasn't the only one who got these intuitive hints.

If you have had a reasonable amount of experience navigating in the conditions you describe, you might well have gained some intuitive expertise in those skills, and so be more successful relying on your intuition than trying to consciously deliberate your way out.

Just a thought...