Against OSAS: some of the best warnings to the churches!

[Bible Highlighter]

Happy 4th of July everyone!

May God's love shine upon you all.


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[FreeGrace2]

Sure ... many years ago, a world-famous Spirit-filled evangelist
did a deep study on this and came to the conclusion that
"pisteous" (or however it is spelled) in the NT means:
believe, have faith, trust, obey.
He concluded that it couldn't mean anything else!

And...do you know WHY that is what he concluded? It was because of his DEEP STUDY.

So, what do you suppose that looked like? It meant that he studied HOW the Greeks during the time of Jesus used and meant words. That's what it means. That's what happens when one does a deep study. They LEARN FACTS.

And I couldn't give a fig about what some Greek scholars
believe what "pisteous" means!

Well, there you go! Problem identified! This is WHY some people end up believing false teachings; they don't do deep study, or those they are learning from don't do deep study.

E.G. a Greek word can have up to 40 different meanings,
depending on the context being used.

Since scholarly and deep study aren't your "thing", how do you know this? And, does this apply to every Greek word, or just some of them?

Where do you get your information from, since you've indicated no confidence in Greek scholars?

Yes, I'd have to say that everything has to do with context.

How would one who eschews deep study even know that?

btw, this was my question:
"Please provide the meaning of the Greek word for 'believe'."

I guess it would have taken some real deep study to answer it. OK.

 

[FreeGrace2]

It's the same old story ...
OSASers refuse to deal with the many anti-OSAS passages!

I've dealt with every one that's been presented to me. And explained WHY the passage isn't about loss of salvation.

By "deal", I mean show why they are NOT anti-OSAS passages.
Simple.

Yes, it has been quite simple.

otoh, I still wonder why none of those who hold to loss of salvation have dealt with all the verses that are presented by the OSAS crowd. It seems they'd just rather ignore them, hoping they'll just go away.

iow, by "dealing with" I mean to show why they are NOT OSAS passages.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Well, I came up with the car analogy a long time ago long before I even met you on the other forum, my friend. I did not know of your car analogy until you told me just today.

And the car analogy has been shown to have nothing to do with God's plan of salvation, and backed it up with Scripture to prove it.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

And the car analogy has been shown to have nothing to do with God's plan of salvation, and backed it up with Scripture to prove it.

The car analogy is based in the real world. As another example: People can be considered as gifts in our lives, too. A wife could be considered as a gift from God and we know anyone who is unfaithful to their wife can take the risk of losing their wife if they continue to remain unfaithful (Which is true with God, too; See - Deuteronomy 31:6 cf. Deuteronomy 31:16-17). The point is that these things are real and can happen in the real world. I say this because Jesus illustrated spiritual truth using real world examples (parables), too (In fact, even the Canaanite woman had expounded upon Jesus's parable with a continued parable of her own - see Matthew 15:27). For in the most popular versions of OSAS or Eternal Security (and not all versions) such a belief cannot be made into a real world example because one has to ignore morality or God's goodness on some level in order to make it work. Folks who do evil (whether it be a lot of sin or just one or two sins) while having a mental loving picture of the Lord in their minds are going to heaven and folks who trust in their Lord as their Savior and focus on doing good for their Lord are going to be destroyed by fire. Up is down and down is up. Good is evil and evil is good.

"Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he [Christ] is righteous" (1 John 3:7).

And Isaiah 5:20 says, "Woe unto them that .... put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!"


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[Bible Highlighter]

In other words...

 

[FreeGrace2]

The car analogy is based in the real world.

Yet it's not in the Bible. Or anything close to it. So why provide what isn't applicable or relevant to Scripture??

Why hold examples of life, which may be quite flawed, to Scripture itself?

To make your example resemble biblical principles, here goes:

A father gifts a car to his son, and puts it in his name, and pays the insurance for the life of the car. Regardless of what the son does to the car, it belongs to the son. That is grace. That is missing from the teaching of loss of salvation.

Oh, and, btw, please don't bother messing up my example with some thought that the son could either:
sell the car
give it away
lose it in some vast parking lot
etc, etc, etc

As another example: People can be considered as gifts in our lives, too. A wife could be considered as a gift from God and we know anyone who is unfaithful to their wife can take the risk of losing their wife if they continue to remain unfaithful (Which is true with God, too; See - Deuteronomy 31:6 cf. Deuteronomy 31:16-17).

Why persist in these totally irrelevant examples, that none of which even come close to the gift of eternal life, which the Bible indicates is irrevocable.

The point is that these things are real and can happen in the real world.

So? They are irrelevant to the biblical concept of the gift of eternal life, which is irrevocable.

I say this because Jesus illustrated spiritual truth using real world examples (parables), too (In fact, even the Canaanite woman had expounded upon Jesus's parable with a continued parable of her own - see Matthew 15:27).

The HUGE difference between your examples and the parables of Jesus is that Jesus' parables ALL taught biblical truth. None of yours does.

For in the most popular versions of OSAS or Eternal Security (and not all versions) such a belief cannot be made into a real world example because one has to ignore morality or God's goodness on some level in order to make it work. Folks who do evil (whether it be a lot of sin or just one or two sins) while having a mental loving picture of the Lord in their minds are going to heaven and folks who trust in their Lord as their Savior and focus on doing good for their Lord are going to be destroyed by fire. Up is down and down is up. Good is evil and evil is good.

This doesn't make any sense. Who has flipped up and down?

"Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he [Christ] is righteous" (1 John 3:7).

Believers are righteous ONLY because God has IMPUTED the righteousness of Christ to them. No other reason. This verse has NOTHING to do with lifestyle or behavior.

 

[FreeGrace2]

In other words...

The biblical concept of grace means that all our sins have been paid for. The Bible says that "Christ died for our sins".

What does that mean for the one who teaches loss of salvation?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

What do people who believe in Lordship Salvation believe about the following verses which talk about the sealing of the Holy Spirit?
Ephesians 4:30
Ephesians 1:13

It's quite apparent in the verses the permanent nature of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, because of the context but also because of the word itself - sealed.

First, you have to realize that God is good and holy (Luke 18:19) (1 Peter 1:16). God cannot in any way condone a believer's thinking that He can sin and still be saved because we are to have the mind of Christ (God) and we are to emulate His behavior (1 Corinthians 2:16) (1 John 2:6). Yes, love will win. God who is love who extended out his hands to a sinful world (who does not want to repent of their sins) will save those select few who do want to come to Him by trusting in Him (as their Savior) and by following His good ways (and not sin). Yes, light will conquer darkness. All unrighteous deeds will be judged (regardless of whether you are a believer or unbeliever) and God will judge fairly in rewarding the righteous and punishing the wicked. The light (God and His Kingdom) will last for all eternity. However, God will destroy evil and darkness (regardless of whether they are a believer or not). For Matthew 13:41-42 says,

41 "The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 and shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
(Matthew 13:41-42).​

Now, please pay careful attention to what this passage above says. It says Jesus will send forth his angels and gather out of His Kingdom (i.e. all those who profess Jesus Christ) and if they do things that offend and work iniquity (sin), Christ's angels will cast these sinful believers into the furnace of fire. That is what this passage above says. All things in Christ's Kingdom that offends and does iniquity (sin) will be thrown into the furnace of fire (i.e. the Lake of Fire - also see Revelation 21:8).

Second, As for Ephesians 1:13 and Ephesians 4:30:

Well, what is a guarantee?

Guarantee receipts normally have conditions which you can normally read in the ”fine print”. If you get a guarantee receipt for a certain product and you would like to make a claim, the store might request that you bring both the product and the receipt with you before they are willing to look at your claim. They might also request that you do this within a certain time frame and that you state what’s wrong with the product. Another example could be if someone buys you a bus ticket which guarantees you to get to a certain city PROVIDED that 1) you don’t throw away your ticket, 2) that you embark the right bus on the right time, and 3) that you STAY ON the bus until it arrives at the city. The BUS will arrive at the city as promised, but the question is if YOU will choose to be among the bus passengers.

1 Samuel 16:14
But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

Psalms 5:11
Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me

Again, circumcision was a ”seal” for those under the old covenant.

Romans 4:11
And he received the sign of circumcision, a SEAL of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also

This seal WAS broken and guaranteed nothing when those who were circumcised broke the covenant and were cut off from the people of God.

Romans 2:25-27
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, IF thou keep the law: but IF thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

As you can see, this seal was conditioned on continued faith and obedience. The Holy Spirit marks us as God’s children of the new covenant but if we abandon the faith, and/or live in disobedience then the Spirit of God no longer remains in us and we are no longer sealed. Circumcised (sealed) jews were broken off through unbelief.

Acts 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

John 14:15-16
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may [i.e. may - a word that does not suggest a guarantee] abide with you for ever

Romans 8:9-10
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, IF so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And IF Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

God speaks of the Israelites who ”grieved” His Holy Spirit in their rebellion. These Jews were cut off from the promise of entering God’s rest and they became God’s enemies.

Isaiah 63:10
But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: THEREFORE he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them. —

Isaiah 63:14
As a beast goeth down into the valley, the Spirit of the LORD caused him to rest: so didst thou lead thy people, to make thyself a glorious name.

In the NT the ”rest” is the eternal rest that all believers will attain. The book of Hebrews continually speak of the promise of eternal rest, in combination with WARNINGS to believers not to miss out on this promised rest through hardening their hearts in unbelief, just as the Israelites did who rebelled against God during the Exodus.

Hebrews 3:6-19
6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we are made partakers of Christ,if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Hebrews 4:1-11
1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preachedentered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. 8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Hebrews 6:11-12
11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Jude 1:5
"I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not."

Source Used:
https://bjorkbloggen.com/2012/04/22...-redemption-but-a-seal-can-be-broken-eph-430/


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[Gabriel Anton]

What do people who believe in Lordship Salvation believe about the following verses which talk about the sealing of the Holy Spirit?
Ephesians 4:30
Ephesians 1:13

It's quite apparent in the verses the permanent nature of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, because of the context but also because of the word itself - sealed.

Peace be with you.

1 A man named Ananias, however, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property.

2 He retained for himself, with his wife's knowledge, some of the purchase price, took the remainder, and put it at the feet of the apostles.

3 But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart so that you lied to the holy Spirit and retained part of the price of the land?

4 While it remained unsold, did it not remain yours? And when it was sold, was it not still under your control? Why did you contrive this deed? You have lied not to human beings, but to God."

5 When Ananias heard these words, he fell down and breathed his last, and great fear came upon all who heard of it.

6 The young men came and wrapped him up, then carried him out and buried him.

7 After an interval of about three hours, his wife came in, unaware of what had happened.

8 Peter said to her, "Tell me, did you sell the land for this amount?" She answered, "Yes, for that amount."

9 Then Peter said to her, "Why did you agree to test the Spirit of the Lord? Listen, the footsteps of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out."

10 At once, she fell down at his feet and breathed her last. When the young men entered they found her dead, so they carried her out and buried her beside her husband.

11 And great fear came upon the whole church and upon all who heard of these things.

These verses show that even if you have the Holy Spirit, you can sin. Those 2 were terminated for their sins. I don't see Peter being sorrowful over them and assuring everybody those 2 were saved and are in Heaven. If they were all sealed with the Holy Spirit and saved, why did great fear fall upon the whole church?

God bless you.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

No, in the verse it doesn't say "after you believed then worked really hard and did good works" they were sealed, it says after they believed. Believed: singular. Sealed: sealed.

Be cautious Cody.
It looks like someone's playing with words to get you to believe something that simply is not so. This is very common, btw (every day) for believers, so don't be surprised.
Just, as Jesus says, "Guard your heart" .....

As God permits, if you have time, look up and read what the OT and NT believers did daily, and with their lives, and what "believed meant (NOT intellectual belief/assent, but active thriving alive belief and faith continuing like breathing, daily, all the time).

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

It's the same old story ...
OSASers refuse to deal with the many anti-OSAS passages!
By "deal", I mean show why they are NOT anti-OSAS passages.
Simple.

Same in Jesus' day in the first century, same throughout history, simple, yes.

Jesus strict warning "EVERY WORD that proceedeth from the Father"
NOT pick and choose some to excuse sin, especially NOT to try and stay comfortable (a curse there)....
and DOing, being NOT just hearers of the WORD (who can hear???) but DOERS of the WORD...
and so much of the WORD is not being done, not being HEARD,
because YHWH HIMSELF sent a famine of the hearing of the Word of God.

..... a severe test, warning, while at the same time wonderful assurance of the perfect plan Yhwh has and accomplishes....

 

[Winken]

In other words...

Amen!

 

[Winken]

Happy 4th of July everyone!

May God's love shine upon you all.


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A belated rite bak atcha!!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

What do people who believe in Lordship Salvation believe about the following verses which talk about the sealing of the Holy Spirit?
Ephesians 4:30
Ephesians 1:13

It's quite apparent in the verses the permanent nature of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, because of the context but also because of the word itself - sealed.

In addition, I would like to quote something a fellow believer in Christ said. He said,

"When a king put his seal upon something, it was an indication that it had his authority and approval, it was not a padlock, it was not a bank vault, it wasn't some kind of barricade. Furthermore, nothing in the Bible from Genesis to Revelation indicates that a seal is unbreakable. In fact, quite the opposite is shown in scriptures. There is a manmade seal and a heavenly seal, both are broken in the Bible...The seal on the tomb was broken when Jesus was resurrected, and the seal on the scroll in Revelation that John saw was also broken."​

Furthermore, we learn in Deuteronomy 31:6 that it says,

"Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the Lord thy God, he it is that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee." (Deuteronomy 31:6).​

Now, It sure sounds like God will not forsake His people here. BUT if you were to keep reading, it also says this....

16 "And the Lord said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.
17 Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us, because our God is not among us?" (Deuteronomy 31:16-17).​

Did you catch what it said in verses 16-17? It says that the Israelites (who were delivered out of Egypt by God's hand) will forsake him and break his covenant and as a result God says He will forsake them and hide his face from them. Now, I do not know about you, but God is not a respecter of persons and God does not change in His behavior in how He treats people. God is fair and equal with all people. In other words, if God forsaked his people for their breaking the covenant by going after other gods (which is a sin), then it is logical to conclude that God would do the same thing today with His people under the New Covenant. In fact, this is what God's Word essentially says in Hebrews 10:26-29 and Romans 11:22.


Source for the first paragraph within this post:
http://www.angelfire.com/planet/loveoneanothe/osas.html


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[Bible Highlighter]

No, in the verse it doesn't say "after you believed then worked really hard and did good works" they were sealed, it says after they believed. Believed: singular. Sealed: sealed.

The Bible has to be read as a whole. A person cannot employ "Laser Beam Theology" and be on the side of the truth. "Laser Beam Theology" is where one studies God's Word by focusing a laser beam on a particular verse or passage as being true from a certain interpretation (or point of view) and yet they ignore or misinterpret other passages or verses in Scripture (So as to hold to a particular wrong view on that one verse or passage). I say this because the Bible talks plenty about falling away from the faith.

Here is a list of verses that makes it absolutely clear that believers can fall away from the faith.

1 Samuel 16:14
1 Samuel 31:4
Ezekiel 18:24
Hebrews 3:12-14
Hebrews 4:11
Hebrews 6:4-9
Hebrews 10:26-30
Hebrews 12:15
1 Timothy 1:18-20
1 Timothy 4:1-7
Galatians 3:1-5
2 Peter 2:20-22
2 Peter 3:17
Matthew 13:18-23
1 Corinthians 10:12
2 Thessalonians 2:3

Now, do not misunderstand me, believers cannot lose their salvation (in the sense of like how one would misplace one's car keys), but they can forfeit their salvation (i.e. they can willingly throw it away by rebelling against God). In fact,

Here is a list of believers who have forfeited their salvation:

• Saul (1 Samuel 16:14) (1 Samuel 31:4)

• Demas (2 Timothy 4:10)

• The Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32)

• Judas Iscariot (Psalm 41:9) (Luke 6:16) (Acts 1:25)

• Hymenaeus and Philetus (2 Timothy 2:17, 18)

• Unnamed Christians destroyed by false teaching (2 Timothy 2:17, 18)

• Many Unnamed Disciples (John 6:66)

• Some Younger Christian Widows (1 Timothy 5:14, 15)

• Some Christians Eager For Money (1 Timothy 6:8, 9, 10)

• Ananias and Sapphira (Acts 5:1-11)

• Balaam (Numbers chapters 22, 23, 24) (Numbers 31:8) (Joshua 13:22) (Jude 1:11)

And here is a list of potential fallen believers:

• The Servant Who is Not Looking For Him (Luke 12:45, 46)

• Recent Convert Who is a Potential Spiritual Leader (1 Timothy 3:6)

• The Unforgiving in Heart (Matthew 6:14, 15)

• Luke Warm Unrepentant Believer (Revelation 3:14-22)

• Fruitless Christians (John 15:1-10) (Matthew 25:14-30)

• Widows That Live in Pleasure (1 Timothy 5:5, 6)

• Believers Whose Seed Fell Upon the Rocks (Luke 8:13)

• Believers Whose Seed Was Choked by Thorns (Matthew 13:22)

• Gentile Believer Who Did Not Have on a Wedding Garment (Matthew 22:1-14) (Revelation 19:7, 8)

• The Potential Fellow Believer Who Erred From the Truth & Was Converted Back
  (James 5:19, 20)

For Jesus is the Light and we are to shine the Light of Christ within our lives. For there are those who think they can serve Jesus and also live for oneself, sin, and evil; But this is wrong, though. "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God" (John 3:20-21).


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[Bible Highlighter]

A belated rite bak atcha!!

Thank you.

May God bless you today.


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[Bible Highlighter]

But we KNOW from other verses that there is NO SUCH criteria for receiving eternal life, and those Jesus gives eternal life WILL NEVER PERISH.

Why do you reject that verse? All you've done is ignore the actual context that begins at v.1 which uses the metaphor of sheep for humans. And v.9 tells us precisely how one is saved: by entering through Him, an obvious metaphor for believing in Him. And all who have believed in Him HAVE eternal life and WILL NEVER PERISH. Period.

Again, verse 27 tells us the type of sheep Jesus is talking about who cannot be snatched out his hand. Verse 1 has to be read with verse 27, etc.

The type of sheep Jesus describes as not being snatched out of his hand are sheep that FOLLOW Him. This is what it says in verse 27. Jesus does not mention that there are other sheep who do NOT FOLLOW Him and yet, they will also not be snatched out of his hand. The sheep that FOLLOW Jesus in verse 27 is the context that you are ignoring for the truth that is taught in verse 28.


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[Bible Highlighter]

I'll make this very clear. Answer the questions.

Does the Bible say that God's gifts are irrevocable? Yes. Rom 11:29

Yet, nowhere does Romans 11:29 says that all of God's gifts are without certain conditions. That is something that you are impressing upon this verse that does not exist. Yes, it is true, God's gifts are irrevocable but God's gifts are irrevocable (cannot be undone) in context or in view of the conditions God sets. For example, Deuteronomy 31:6 says God will not forsake his people if they are faithful to him. Yet, in Deuteronomy 31:16-17 we learn God will forsake his people because they went after other gods (Which is a sin). Two different truths expressed in the same chapter (of which they have to be read together so as to get the whole truth on the matter).

In fact, we know that God can cut off believers today. He tells us this in the same chapter of Romans 11. Romans 11:21-22 says if you do not continue in his goodness you will be cut off. For if God spared not the natural branches (i.e. the Jews), take heed that he can do the same to you (i.e. Gentile believers). The analogy here is that you are branch and Christ is the tree. We need to continue in Christ's righteousness or goodness, not our own righteousness or goodness, or we will be cut off because of unbelief.

Does the Bible say that eternal life is a gift of God? Yes. Rom 6:23

Jesus Christ is the gift from God (2 Corinthians 9:15).
For God so loved the world that he GAVE his only begotten Son (John 3:16).
Jesus Christ is the source of a person's life (i.e. eternal life) (1 John 5:12).
For a person has to abide with God in order to have salvation.

#1. John 17:3 says eternal life is in knowing the one true God, Jesus Christ. Knowing implies a fellowship. So if you don't know Jesus, then you don't have life (Salvation).

#2. Romans 8:9 says if he a man does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to him.

#3. Psalms 73:27 says God will destroy all those who abandon Him (or go a whoring from Him).

#4. John 15:6 says if a man does not abide in Him, he is cast forth and burned.

#5. 1 John 1:7 says if we walk in the Light as He is in the Light, the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.

Did Jesus say that those He gives eternal life WILL NEVER PERISH? Yes. John 10:28

Again, this has to be read in context to verse 27. Verse 27 describes the type of sheep that will never perish. These are sheep that FOLLOW Jesus. There is no sheep that is described here that do NOT FOLLOW Jesus.

Did Jesus say that those who believe HAVE eternal life? Yes. John 5:24

Believe is in reference to believing not only in the person of Jesus Christ but in everything He said and did, too. Remember, Jesus said, why do you call me Lord, Lord and do not what I say? (Luke 6:46). In other words, Jesus is essentially saying that one is not making Jesus their Lord if they are not doing what He says. So this begs the question, if Jesus is not a person's Lord because they are not doing what He says, then WHO else is the Lord of their life? Surely one cannot make the devil their Lord and also be in God's good graces.

Also, the word "believe" is just another way of saying "faith", too. James says faith without works is dead, too (James 2:17).

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[Bible Highlighter]

The biblical concept of grace means that all our sins have been paid for. The Bible says that "Christ died for our sins".

What does that mean for the one who teaches loss of salvation?

But you have to ignore morality or God's goodness in order to make your line of reasoning work here.


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