Against OSAS: some of the best warnings to the churches!

[-57]

Why isn't Galatians 6:7 about salvation? Have you actually read verses 7 and 8?

Galatians 6
7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap.
8 For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.

Do you not know corruption is damnation? Do you not know everlasting life is salvation?

The one that sows to the Spirit isn't sowing to merit salvation.

 

[-57]

I'm not one of those people, so I can't answer that question.

Gee, your post seemed to indicate you knew.

 

[EmSw]

The one that sows to the Spirit isn't sowing to merit salvation.

What is so difficult with this verse?

...he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.

What is everlasting life but salvation?

 

[EmSw]

Gee, your post seemed to indicate you knew.

Gee, your response seems to indicate you do not know me, nor my heart.

 

[Circle Christ]

No one has shown me any such thing!

Here's a simple challenge for you ...
Simply take Romans 6:16-23 and show
how/why it does not apply to losing eternal life.
Simple.

This site amazes me. Sincerely. I am flabbergasted. And while the rules say we can do no such thing, do we really have to call out what the Lord in his eternal wisdom already knows?


I heard this story once. A group of unbelievers decided they'd play a game. They joined religious forums committed to talking about eternal life and salvation. And these unbelievers goal was to use the Bible as a means of interjecting a wedge into the spiritual members of those sites thinking.
These unbelievers had not a clue about the Bible. They were not called by God. They were in fact agents of the devil. And they loved it. They cherry picked verses they never understood just to start a conversation in a thread about salvation and God's promise of eternal life that would go something like this; eternal really isn't eternal. Jesus didn't mean forever when he promised everlasting life. Being reborn doesn't really mean you're a new person. You can screw up and lose it all. Once your saved you're not always secure. Watch out! You could lose your salvation at any moment.

Those unbelievers were wicked happy that they'd started a conflict in spiritual forums. They'd spit a verse or two into the mix just to keep things going, but for the most part they sat back and watched the actual faithful members fight among themselves. Because those unbelievers who masked as one of their own set it all off.

I lost track of what happened to them because I stopped patronizing those forums. Reason being me and plenty of others concluded that label makers interjecting evil lived in their own world. And if they had the power to really think they were leading anyone to believe their lies then those who did were exactly what the actual scriptures talked about in the first place. Never saved. And God knows.
So what was there to argue with? Let it be. Jesus saves and no thing changes that. Those who don't believe that can live till they die hoping to lead the faithful on their dark depressed pathway. Will they get anyone to follow? No, not a one of the church shall even hear the invitation that pricks their ears with interest. Instead, those who are in God's eternal grace shall look in that dark direction and pity the fools and their games. And then we'll pray the church remains strong in the light and love of Christ Jesus. Because as he said and as we know, Satan is the Lord that prowls and seeks souls to devour. And God knows there are plenty of Satan's own who are more than happy to feed him what they find on the road to perdition.


The best warning for the church is to ignore the Satan's that try to tell us Jesus lied. OSAS is eternal. Those who lose their salvation never had it in the first place.
That's in the Bible. Let the church say, AMEN!

 

[EmSw]

This site amazes me. Sincerely. I am flabbergasted. And while the rules say we can do no such thing, do we really have to call out what the Lord in his eternal wisdom already knows?


I heard this story once. A group of unbelievers decided they'd play a game. They joined religious forums committed to talking about eternal life and salvation. And these unbelievers goal was to use the Bible as a means of interjecting a wedge into the spiritual members of those sites thinking.
These unbelievers had not a clue about the Bible. They were not called by God. They were in fact agents of the devil. And they loved it. They cherry picked verses they never understood just to start a conversation in a thread about salvation and God's promise of eternal life that would go something like this; eternal really isn't eternal. Jesus didn't mean forever when he promised everlasting life. Being reborn doesn't really mean you're a new person. You can screw up and lose it all. Once your saved you're not always secure. Watch out! You could lose your salvation at any moment.

Those unbelievers were wicked happy that they'd started a conflict in spiritual forums. They'd spit a verse or two into the mix just to keep things going, but for the most part they sat back and watched the actual faithful members fight among themselves. Because those unbelievers who masked as one of their own set it all off.

I lost track of what happened to them because I stopped patronizing those forums. Reason being me and plenty of others concluded that label makers interjecting evil lived in their own world. And if they had the power to really think they were leading anyone to believe their lies then those who did were exactly what the actual scriptures talked about in the first place. Never saved. And God knows.
So what was there to argue with? Let it be. Jesus saves and no thing changes that. Those who don't believe that can live till they die hoping to lead the faithful on their dark depressed pathway. Will they get anyone to follow? No, not a one of the church shall even hear the invitation that pricks their ears with interest. Instead, those who are in God's eternal grace shall look in that dark direction and pity the fools and their games. And then we'll pray the church remains strong in the light and love of Christ Jesus. Because as he said and as we know, Satan is the Lord that prowls and seeks souls to devour. And God knows there are plenty of Satan's own who are more than happy to feed him what they find on the road to perdition.


The best warning for the church is to ignore the Satan's that try to tell us Jesus lied. OSAS is eternal. Those who lose their salvation never had it in the first place.
That's in the Bible. Let the church say, AMEN!

Are you saying those who disagree with you are devils?

 

[Circle Christ]

Are you saying those who disagree with you are devils?

It is impossible to arrive at that conclusion based on what I said.

 

[-57]

What is so difficult with this verse?

...he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.

What is everlasting life but salvation?

You can't sow to the Spirit unlesss you already have everlasting life.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It is impossible to arrive at that conclusion based on what I said.

I understood what you said. You are essentially saying that just because a group of unbelievers (possibly either agnostic or atheistic) had banded together so as to question the Eternal Security Proponent's lack of knowledge in the Bible means that the Eternal Security belief is true (because of such persecution).

Now, why are these atheists or agnostics doing this? Is it because the Eternal Security Proponents are living righteously and suffering for doing good? I highly doubt it. Most (not all) Eternal Security Proponents I have had discussion with will usually try to justify sin on some level. So it is no surprise why some unbelievers who in their heart know that morality exists are pointing out the errors of Eternal Security Proponents. They are using the very Bible that they claim to believe against them (Because their beliefs do not match up in Scripture). That does not mean the Eternal Security Proponent is on the side of the truth if they are ignoring a basic truth that everyone should know about. I mean, don't you think it is possible that even unbelievers during Jesus' time did a similar thing with the Scribes and Pharisees?

You see, morals come from God and His Word. God can no more be against His own morality or goodness then say for rain not to be wet. If a person says they can sin and still be saved, they are obviously lying because neither the Bible or real life teaches that such a thing would be true. God is good and He is not evil. He cannot agree with someone's thinking that they can sin and still be saved because we are supposed to have the mind of Christ (God).


...

 

[Circle Christ]

I understood what you said. You are saying that just because a group of unbelievers (possibly either agnostic or atheistic) had banded together so as to question the Eternal Security Proponent's lack of knowledge in the Bible means that their belief is true (because of such persecution). Why are they doing this? Is it because the Eternal Security Proponents are living righteously and suffering for doing good? I highly doubt it. Most (not all) Eternal Security Proponents I have had discussion with will usually try to justify sin on some level. So it is no surprise why some unbelievers who in their heart know that morality exists are pointing out the errors of Eternal Security Proponents. They are using the very Bible that they claim to believe against them (Because their beliefs do not match up in Scripture). That does not mean the Eternal Security Proponent is on the side of the truth if they are ignoring a basic truth that everyone should know about.


...

Have you ever searched the keyword, OSAS , here? Seven pages at least arguing what has been true for over 2000 years.
Those who defend the truth of Christ. And those who argue against it.
The thing is, God saw it all coming before it happened. And that's why the new covenant he made with his people is very clear on all sides of the arguments posed in every Christian forum on the net.
Salvation is eternal.
Those on the Net who don't believe that aren't saved. That's why they are either non-believers arguing against God's word. Or nominal Christians who's self doubt and sinful lifestyle make them ignore the passages that say, those who are saved do not make a habit of sinning.

This is why there is a decided difference in terms in Christ's ministry. When he spoke of sinners he spoke of those who needed to be cleansed from their sin. When he spoke of those who were renewed in the grace of God he spoke of and to the Saints of his body, the church, and never called them sinner again.
No, Christians who are in the grace of God and eternal life are not perfect. However, they are also not sinners according to the precepts that describe that condition in scripture. Rather, they are forgiven and God remembers their sins no more. When they do sin they repent and that mistake is still covered under the blood.

God isn't a liar. Jesus didn't preach and then die for a lie. Seven pages of arguments for years! When the Bible is absolutely clear. What appears to not be so are those who claim Christ and then argue that they can be unborn, unredeemed, and the Holy Spirit can take his leave of them if they, because they believe in a works salvation, work to lose what Jesus died to guarantee.

That is a real shame.
For seven pages.
And counting.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Have you ever searched the keyword, OSAS , here? Seven pages at least arguing what has been true for over 2000 years.
Those who defend the truth of Christ. And those who argue against it.
The thing is, God saw it all coming before it happened. And that's why the new covenant he made with his people is very clear on all sides of the arguments posed in every Christian forum on the net.
Salvation is eternal.
Those who don't believe that aren't saved. That's why they are either non-believers arguing against God's word. Or nominal Christians who's self doubt and sinful lifestyle make them ignore the passages that say, those who are saved do not make a habit of sinning.
This is why there is a decided difference in terms in Christ's ministry. When he spoke of sinners he spoke of those who needed to be cleansed from their sin. When he spoke of those who were renewed in the grace of God he spoke of and to the Saints of his body, the church, and never called them sinner again.
No, Christians who are in the grace of God and eternal life are not perfect. However, they are also not sinners according to the precepts that describe that condition in scripture. Rather, they are forgiven and God remembers their sins no more. When they do sin they repent and that mistake is still covered under the blood.

God isn't a liar. Jesus didn't preach and then die for a lie. Seven pages of arguments for years! When the Bible is absolutely clear. What appears to not be so are those who claim Christ and then argue that they can be unborn, unredeemed, and the Holy Spirit can take his leave of them if they, because they believe in a works salvation, work to lose what Jesus died to guarantee.

That is a real shame.
For seven pages.
And counting.

When I read Matthew 7, I get no indication that the person who was told to depart from Him by Jesus Christ Himself was doing so for the reason of Eternal Security. On the contrary, if you were to read Matthew 7, the clues stack in favor for the Biblical view of Conditional Salvation. How so?

#1. Jesus told this person to depart from him (not because of a lack of belief alone in Jesus) but because they worked iniquity (Which is sin) (Matthew 7:23).

#2. In Matthew 7:21, Jesus says not everyone who says unto me Lord, Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but he that does the will of the Father. What is the will of the Father or God? 1 Thessalonians 4:3 says the will of God (or the will of the Father) is our Sanctification or holiness. For Scripture says, without holiness, no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14). This holiness or righteousness can be defined as actually doing righteousness. For 1 John 3:7 says he that does righteousness is righteous.

#3. Matthew 7:26-27 says that if a man does not do what Jesus says he is like a fool who built his house upon the sand and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house.​

In fact, Jesus says in Matthew 7 that we will know false prophets (i.e. false believers) by their fruit (i.e. works). If they bring forth bad fruit or bad works they are false. Yet, works does not really matter so much to the Eternal Security Proponent.

Also, you seem to be under the false impression that Eternal Security leads people into living righteously. Nothing could be further from the truth. Here are just a few testimonies of people who were led into sin as a result of Eternal Security.

Ex OSAS Audio Testimonies:
Testimonies of former eternal security believers

Suicide & OSAS:
A tragic story of an OSAS believer.

A Pastor's Testimony on OSAS:
A testimony about OSAS by a Pastor's wife.

Hooked on Sin & OSAS:
Out Of Darkness | NO Eternal Security | Christian Testimony

Murder, Suicide, & OSAS
George Sodini

I mean, just stop and think for a moment. The Eternal Security belief justifies sin on some level. Now, if a believer or Christian is supposed to have the mind of Christ, how can Eternal Security be true? Do you think God would ever rationalize sin? I don't think so. God is good. God is holy. God is righteous. God is just.

Side Note:

Oh, and this is not my first discussion involving OSAS. I have been arguing against it for many years. The more I argue against it, the more verses I discover that disproves it; And the more I argue against it, the more reasons OSAS Proponents convince me that they are not like the saints as described in the New Testament.


....

 

[ZacharyB]

I believe God chooses some people for grace and mercy while others are not and face justice.

Yes, this is another topic for which are 10 NT verses or so,
which teach us (hopefully) that God must give a person
enough faith to enable him/her to believe in Jesus and His gospel.

 

[ZacharyB]

Jesus: "Those who are well do not need a physician, but the sick do.
In case you don't know this, Jesus regards sinners as "sick".
If you are a sinner, you are sick so you Need Jesus to cure you.

This is true if you are an unbeliever.
But, if you are born-again and are still habitually sinning,
Jesus will not be curing you!
The Holy Spirit will be working in your life,
trying to persuade you to repent of your sin!
But, you must (with your free-will) choose to do so!
Eventually, through your sincere repentance, all of your sinning can be forsaken!
Then you will be walking righteously, and will have progressed unto holiness.
1 John says those who are practicing righteousness are sons of God.

 

[ZacharyB]

... this is not my first discussion involving OSAS. I have been
arguing against it for many years. The more I argue against it,
the more verses I discover that disproves it ...

Ditto for me ... there are more and more.
But, Jesus said that one needs spiritual eyes to see!
Worse than that, several OT and NT verses say that
God purposely blinds some people from "seeing"!
And IMO, this applies to a lot of people.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Ditto for me ... there are more and more.
But, Jesus said that one needs spiritual eyes to see!
Worse than that, several OT and NT verses say that
God purposely blinds some people from "seeing"!
And IMO, this applies to a lot of people.

Thank you for saying that. I believe certain people are blinded to the truth by God as a result of their free will of not wanting to see the truth as a result of their sin. If God sees in their heart that they are willing to be corrected, the Lord can open their eyes to see. For we just plant the seeds of God's Word and it is the Lord who gives the increase.

In any event, let all praise, glory, honor, and power be unto the Lord.


...

 

[-57]

Gee, your response seems to indicate you do not know me, nor my heart.

When I read Matthew 7, I get no indication that the person who was told to depart from Him by Jesus Christ Himself was doing so for the reason of Eternal Security. On the contrary, if you were to read Matthew 7, the clues stack in favor for the Biblical view of Conditional Salvation. How so?

#1. Jesus told this person to depart from him (not because of a lack of belief alone in Jesus) but because they worked iniquity (Which is sin) (Matthew 7:23).

#2. In Matthew 7:21, Jesus says not everyone who says unto me Lord, Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but he that does the will of the Father. What is the will of the Father or God? 1 Thessalonians 4:3 says the will of God (or the will of the Father) is our Sanctification or holiness. For Scripture says, without holiness, no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14). This holiness or righteousness can be defined as actually doing righteousness. For 1 John 3:7 says he that does righteousness is righteous.

#3. Matthew 7:26-27 says that if a man does not do what Jesus says he is like a fool who built his house upon the sand and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house.​

In fact, Jesus says in Matthew 7 that we will know false prophets (i.e. false believers) by their fruit (i.e. works). If they bring forth bad fruit or bad works they are false. Yet, works does not really matter so much to the Eternal Security Proponent.

Also, you seem to be under the false impression that Eternal Security leads people into living righteously. Nothing could be further from the truth. Here are just a few testimonies of people who were led into sin as a result of Eternal Security.

Ex OSAS Audio Testimonies:
Testimonies of former eternal security believers

Suicide & OSAS:
A tragic story of an OSAS believer.

A Pastor's Testimony on OSAS:
A testimony about OSAS by a Pastor's wife.

Hooked on Sin & OSAS:
Out Of Darkness | NO Eternal Security | Christian Testimony

Murder, Suicide, & OSAS
George Sodini

I mean, just stop and think for a moment. The Eternal Security belief justifies sin on some level. Now, if a believer or Christian is supposed to have the mind of Christ, how can Eternal Security be true? Do you think God would ever rationalize sin? I don't think so. God is good. God is holy. God is righteous. God is just.

Side Note:

Oh, and this is not my first discussion involving OSAS. I have been arguing against it for many years. The more I argue against it, the more verses I discover that disproves it; And the more I argue against it, the more reasons OSAS Proponents convince me that they are not like the saints as described in the New Testament.


....

Last time I read the bible it said no one can snatch you from Jesus' hand.
it becomes pretty obvious to me you are taking those scriptures out of context...

 

[-57]

This is true if you are an unbeliever.
But, if you are born-again and are still habitually sinning,
Jesus will not be curing you!
The Holy Spirit will be working in your life,
trying to persuade you to repent of your sin!
But, you must (with your free-will) choose to do so!
Eventually, through your sincere repentance, all of your sinning can be forsaken!
Then you will be walking righteously, and will have progressed unto holiness.
1 John says those who are practicing righteousness are sons of God.

You said "Eventually, through your sincere repentance, all of your sinning can be forsaken!"

...where does the bible say this?

 

[-57]

Yes, this is another topic for which are 10 NT verses or so,
which teach us (hopefully) that God must give a person
enough faith to enable him/her to believe in Jesus and His gospel.

Faith and grace are a gift from God.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Last time I read the bible it said no one can snatch you from Jesus' hand.
it becomes pretty obvious to me you are taking those scriptures out of context...

By your response here, it appears you are either do not know how to reply to the verses I brought up or you are not even looking at what I had written with Scripture. For how do write off Scripture that says Jesus's sheep FOLLOW Him in John 10:27? How do you explain the points I made in Matthew 7?


...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Faith and grace are a gift from God.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

Ephesians 2:8 is talking about initial salvation; Also, Paul was addressing the heresy of Circumcision Salvationism and Salvation by works alone without any kind of Savior. In addition, even Jesus does the good work in you in the Sanctification process so you cannot hit your chest like King Kong and act like you are hot stuff. Works are a natural by product of abiding in Christ. However, Paul was not teaching a sin and still be saved doctrine. For one, in the beginning of Ephesians 2, Paul basically says that we used to be sinners as a part of our old life. Paul also essentially says elsewhere that if any man speaks contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of Godliness, he is proud and knows nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

Also, life teaches us that good gifts come with responsibilities so as to keep or maintain them (Even in a relationship whereby you would consider a person to be a gift).


...