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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Why did Jesus Leave?

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Peace Keeper

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29 Yeshua said to Him [Thomas], “Because you have seen Me, you have believed? Blessed are the ones who have not seen and yet have believed!” John 20:29 TLV

He came first as a servant and as a sacrifice, so that our sins could be completely forgiven and washed clean. He gives everyone every opportunity to come to Him and believe and repent and to turn away from sin. It is our choice what path and decision we make. We need this time to really devote ourselves to Him and seek Him so when He comes the second and final time, we (the church, His people) will be ready as a Bride for Him.

Also, do not compare God's work with other churches and organizations and what they do or say, if they go against the Bible in any way, they have no light in them, no truth, therefore they are not of God. You will know them by their fruit. How do we examine the fruit and know if they are of God? By reading His Word, because His Word is truth.

The Way to the Father’s House
1 “Do not let your heart be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in Me. 2 In My Father’s house there are many dwelling places. If it were not so, would I have told you that I am going to prepare a place for you? 3 If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and take you to Myself, so that where I am you may also be. 4 And you know the way to where I am going.”

5 Thomas said to Him, “Master, we don’t know where You are going. How can we know the way?”

6 Yeshua said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life! No one comes to the Father except through Me. 7 If you have come to know Me, you will know My Father also. From now on, you do know Him and have seen Him.”

8 Philip said to Him, “Master, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.”

9 Yeshua said to him, “Have I been with you for so long a time, and you haven’t come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me? The words I say to you, I do not speak on My own; but the Father dwelling in Me does His works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me—or at least believe because of the works themselves.

12 “Amen, amen I tell you, he who puts his trust in Me, the works that I do he will do; and greater than these he will do, because I am going to the Father.13 And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it.”

The Believer’s Helper
15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.16 I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper so He may be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him. You know Him, because He abides with you and will be in you. 18 I will not abandon you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 In a little while, the world will no longer behold Me, but you will behold Me. Because I live, you also will live!

20 “In that day, you will know that I am in My Father, you are in Me, and I am in you. 21 He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me. He who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and reveal Myself to him.”

22 Judah (not the one from Kriot) said to Him, “Master, what has happened, that You are about to reveal Yourself to us and not the world?”

23 Yeshua answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word. My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our dwelling with him. 24 He who does not love Me does not keep My words. And the word you hear is not Mine, but the Father’s who sent Me. 25 These things I have spoken to you while dwelling with you. 26 But the Helper, the Ruach ha-Kodesh [Holy Spirit] whom the Father will send in My name, will teach you everything and remind you of everything that I said to you.

27 “Shalom I leave you, My shalom I give to you; but not as the world gives! Do not let your heart be troubled or afraid.28 You’ve heard Me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved Me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, because the Father is greater than I.29 I have told you now before it happens, so that when it happens you may believe!

30 “I will not talk with you much longer, for the ruler of this world is coming. He has nothing on Me. 31 But in order that the world may know that I love the Father, I do exactly as the Father commanded Me." John 14:1-31 TLV
 
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Deidre32

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Not who, but what. What reasons do we have for believing it to be true? And were you saying that it doesn't matter whether it's true, so long as it makes you happy?
It is true, that is why it actually brings me joy. I explained to you earlier in the thread that I had an experience when I was an atheist, that led me to believe it was of the Holy Spirit. That was evidence to me. Does it bother you that others have faith in a deity, simply because you don't feel there is proof of one that is satisfying to you?
 
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Archaeopteryx

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It is true, that is why it actually brings me joy. I explained to you earlier in the thread that I had an experience when I was an atheist, that led me to believe it was of the Holy Spirit. That was evidence to me. Does it bother you that others have faith in a deity, simply because you don't feel there is proof of one that is satisfying to you?
No, what bothers me (or is curious to me) is that, earlier, you appeared to be saying that it doesn't matter whether it's true or not, so long as it brings you happiness. For instance:
You have your own code by which you live your life. Faith/spirituality is another code that others live their lives by. Neither is right or wrong, we are just different.
I know all the arguments, as I was an atheist at one time, too. I wasn't interested in getting people to change their minds, though. If spirituality and faith brings happiness and joy to people, you should live and let live.
 
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Deidre32

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No, what bothers me (or is curious to me) is that, earlier, you appeared to be saying that it doesn't matter whether it's true or not, so long as it brings you happiness. For instance:

I never stated that one should believe things that aren't true. But, you are wanting faith to be proven by your standards, or by a method that you approve of, therefore you feel what I believe is 'wrong,' which is your right.

What do you wish to gain from this exchange?
 
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amariselle

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You don't feel threatened? Oh come on... Someone who feels secure, having the rules of the forum on his side and a safe house to boot, doesn't complain about "atheist taunts." He addresses them.

Several months ago, there was a thread on here titled "Why do Christians get evasive, defensive or angry when faced with difficult questions?" Christians complained (you were one of them) and, as a consequence, the thread was deleted in its entirety. Does that sound like an atheist "safe house" to you? By contrast, @amariselle started a thread about atheists that no atheist is able to even comment on. Come on, Albion, you and I both know all too well that Christians are privileged here. Incidentally, the title of that deleted thread has renewed relevance given some of the recent posts here.

Since you have obviously seen that thread, you undoubtedly understand why I started it.
 
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Albion

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I never stated that one should believe things that aren't true.
I read your comments myself -- with special care --and didn't find anything in them even close to "it doesn't matter what you believe" or " it doesn't matter if what is believed is true or not."
 
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amariselle

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I don't need to tell myself that at all... I just need to look at your posts, in which you haven't bothered with the question.

Again, as you've admitted, it is not that I haven't "bothered" with the question, it is that you find my answers "unsatisfactory."
 
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amariselle

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Why do you need to know my motives? Will it determine how you answer? Are you a control freak? Why is it such a hard question for you to answer?

It's a simple, honest question.

How tall was Jesus?

If this question was put to me, I would have no problem answering.

Not at all, your motives won't change HOW I answer, they will determine whether I bother to answer AT ALL.
 
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Albion

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I was merely pointing out why other Christians here are surprised to find that Atheists are inviting them to leave this forum if they don't respond to various taunts or to a grilling by a crowd of Atheists who seemingly are looking for a fight, regardless of the topic of the thread.
;)
 
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Archaeopteryx

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I read your comments myself -- with special care --and didn't find anything in them even close to "it doesn't matter what you believe" or " it doesn't matter if what is believed is true or not."
You have your own code by which you live your life. Faith/spirituality is another code that others live their lives by. Neither is right or wrong, we are just different.
 
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Archaeopteryx

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Again, as you've admitted, it is not that I haven't "bothered" with the question, it is that you find my answers "unsatisfactory."
This is the question I'm talking about at present. You didn't bother with it at all. So I can't say that your answers to that question were unsatisfactory, given that you gave no answers at all.
 
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Archaeopteryx

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I already addressed this:
You don't feel threatened? Oh come on... Someone who feels secure, having the rules of the forum on his side and a safe house to boot, doesn't complain about "atheist taunts." He addresses them.

Several months ago, there was a thread on here titled "Why do Christians get evasive, defensive or angry when faced with difficult questions?" Christians complained (you were one of them) and, as a consequence, the thread was deleted in its entirety. Does that sound like an atheist "safe house" to you? By contrast, @amariselle started a thread about atheists that no atheist is able to even comment on. Come on, Albion, you and I both know all too well that Christians are privileged here. Incidentally, the title of that deleted thread has renewed relevance given some of the recent posts here.
 
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Archaeopteryx

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I never stated that one should believe things that aren't true.
You did say "neither is right or wrong." I'm curious about what you mean by that. You went on to say that, if it brings joy to people, "live and let live."
What do you wish to gain from this exchange?
Only a clarification of what you mean, since it's not clear.
 
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Archaeopteryx

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Since you have obviously seen that thread, you undoubtedly understand why I started it.
You started it to voice your complaints. Notice the privilege allowing you to do this. No nonbeliever would be permitted to do so, even in our supposed de facto "safe house" on the Philosophy forum.
 
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amariselle

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You started it to voice your complaints. Notice the privilege allowing you to do this. No nonbeliever would be permitted to do so, even in our supposed de facto "safe house" on the Philosophy forum.

No, that is not why I started it at all.
 
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amariselle

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It certainly seems to be, judging by the posts in that thread.

I cannot control what others post. You said that I started it to complain about Atheists. I did no such thing.
 
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