Gal 4 "under the Law" vs "under Grace" in Romans 6 and not sinning

[Bob S]

I believe in a previous post I mentioned to you the follow: You will loose your salvation for not keeping the Sabbath and I will loose my for hating you for not keeping the Sabbath.

There you go paraphrasing Ellen White. SDAs really do believe it is their works that save them. That is diametrically opposed to scripture. Ellen also wrote that you will lose your salvation if you do not tithe. Both are misnomers, there are no such commands in the new covenant. Only Israel had those commands, never has God imposed those requirements on any other nation or group. Hate is the opposite of love and yes if you are a hater there is no way you can really claim the promises.

Until the end that we will all be judged based on our actions, we need to have a change of character, be like Christ.

And here I thought Christians are not even judged, JN5:24. I also thought Christians are saved by grace. Our actions will never be perfect. We can never "be like Christ". All we can do is put our full trust in Him knowing He will cover for our sinful lives because He is able to keep us from falling and present us faultless before the Throne of God, Jude24.

Christ the man that walked on earth and no one can ever question His ways. When we study the bible, we dont find per say sin in the disciples.

You have to be kidding. Are you teaching your subjects this stuff?

Yet, they had problems with their character. As they were, they were not heaven bound and let us not forget that they walked with Jesus. In Romans 7, we find Paul talking about the sin in him. What sin do we find Paul in throughout his ordeals? NONE. Yet he knows the struggle in him that he has to endure.
have you taken the time to think about what would have been of Paul had he not been limited by his poor eye sight? Paul was a no nonsense kind of guy. Look at his attitude in Acts 15:36-41. we find this brilliant and powerful preacher throughout his ministry in need of someone else's eyes.
God has His ways to keep us from being lost. Sadly so does the devil. He knows what button to push

Ramblings

Please look past the 10 Commandments so you would have a better understanding of what is sin. Plus the law that we need to keep dear to our heart and mind so we could not loose the precious gift of salvation given to all who believe in Jesus.

Yep, more ramblings. Paul wrote that the law was the schoolmaster to bring us to Christ or better put: 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

 

[BobRyan]

So then teaching and quoting from the OT seems to mean obligation to you.

bugkiller

it means "ALL scripture is given by inspiration from God AND is to be used for doctrine" 2 Tim 3:16.

Just as Christ did in Luke 24:27.

Why then do you ignore Rom 7:6 among others I haven't quoted is some time?

bugkiller

I love not ignoring Romans 7:6 -- are you quoting it??

 

[Bob S]

it means "ALL scripture is given by inspiration from God AND is to be used for doctrine" 2 Tim 3:16.

Just as Christ did in Luke 24:27.



I love not ignoring Romans 7:6 -- are you quoting it??

I do notice your lack of use of 2Cor3, 1Jn3:19-24,Col 2:16-17 and chapter 3 and 4 of the book of Galatians.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Sorry folks. Could you explain to me how "non-content" counts as content ?

 

[love2obey]

There you go paraphrasing Ellen White. SDAs really do believe it is their works that save them. That is diametrically opposed to scripture. Ellen also wrote that you will lose your salvation if you do not tithe. Both are misnomers, there are no such commands in the new covenant. Only Israel had those commands, never has God imposed those requirements on any other nation or group. Hate is the opposite of love and yes if you are a hater there is no way you can really claim the promises.


And here I thought Christians are not even judged, JN5:24. I also thought Christians are saved by grace. Our actions will never be perfect. We can never "be like Christ". All we can do is put our full trust in Him knowing He will cover for our sinful lives because He is able to keep us from falling and present us faultless before the Throne of God, Jude24.



You have to be kidding. Are you teaching your subjects this stuff?


Ramblings


Yep, more ramblings. Paul wrote that the law was the schoolmaster to bring us to Christ or better put: 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

it all depends in the readers' own interpretation of what they read, being in the bible or what others say. No where have I said nor ever the SDA church teach that one can save itself by keeping the law. The core teachings of the bible is what I believe in and what the church teaches; one can loose its salvation by not doing God's will which is sin. It is not something that I or the church has invented as a new gospel. Since Adam and Eve, who were created in God's image, who introduced sin to humanity and gave reign to the devil on earth, there has been and will be sin on earth until the devil's reign on earth is put to an end by God. By the way, if I sound like Ms. White is because we believe in the same bible teaching.
Also let us be cleared and stop preaching or believing in false truth that has become popular as many imply with their new beliefs that sin is done by believing in Christ. It is not biblical. In Christ, we find redemption from sin or being cleared from the condemnation of sin. I dont know If we all have it cleared in our mind what this means. it means that the moment we accept and believe as John 5:24 teaches us, no one including God can hold against us our past sins. It is why Jesus died on the cross for us. We may add that this does not mean we are free to do at will as if their is no wrong that we may ever do.
so if their is no sin ever that can be counted against me, I should steal from my boss nor worry about sleeping with my neighbor's wife or lying in court to a judge. I should keep thinking and tell myself that the law was my guardian and now that I believe in Jesus the law cant do or say nothing to me.
Just a thought that hope one day do the research and have more statistics: How may SDA members are in prisons and compare them to other denominations? The fear and love of the Lord and His teachings is what keeps humanity a flow in this sinful and cruel world.

 

[BobRyan]

I do notice your lack of use of 2Cor3, 1Jn3:19-24,Col 2:16-17 and chapter 3 and 4 of the book of Galatians.

I notice your lack of quoting anything at all - and your lack of use of a few 100 other chapters in the Bible.

is this supposed to be a "substantive" form of response?

 

[BobRyan]

it all depends in the readers' own interpretation of what they read, being in the bible or what others say. No where have I said nor ever the SDA church teach that one can save itself by keeping the law. .

That keeps getting repeated - but those who object to the Law of God will "circle back" to the same sorts of factless accusation again - primarily because factless accusations don't need facts.

 

[bugkiller]

Good point. “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
Can we safely say that Judas and Peter didnt read or hear the Word from a third party. They were next to Jesus for more than 3 years. They were not just able to hear Jesus but also able to see, speak to, walk with, touch, eat with, sleep by His side, and all that we can think of that one can do with another person who is dear to us. They were able to witness Jesus speak and do things beyond man's imagination.

Therefore, based on this text that you posted and the outcome of Judas and Peter as the bible details the end of their live, who do you say

1. is saved

1. I pick Peter only because its obvious Judas isn't in compliance with the passage.

   [*]is not
   [*]is a christian

   I pick Peter only because its obvious Judas isn't in compliance with the passage.

   [*]is not

As we read this text as well as many others like it (John 3:16), we find that there is a condition to be met for it to be a blessing to us.

That condition has nothing to do with the 10 Cs (the Law).

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

it means "ALL scripture is given by inspiration from God AND is to be used for doctrine" 2 Tim 3:16.

Ah yes. That means we take your meaning and throw out anything you don't like. We can start from Genesis.

Just as Christ did in Luke 24:27.

What for? Why isn't v 44 sufficient?

I love not ignoring Romans 7:6 -- are you quoting it??

I've quoted it to you enough you should have it memorized by now.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

it all depends in the readers' own interpretation of what they read, being in the bible or what others say. No where have I said nor ever the SDA church teach that one can save itself by keeping the law. The core teachings of the bible is what I believe in and what the church teaches; one can loose its salvation by not doing God's will which is sin. It is not something that I or the church has invented as a new gospel. Since Adam and Eve, who were created in God's image, who introduced sin to humanity and gave reign to the devil on earth, there has been and will be sin on earth until the devil's reign on earth is put to an end by God. By the way, if I sound like Ms. White is because we believe in the same bible teaching.
Also let us be cleared and stop preaching or believing in false truth that has become popular as many imply with their new beliefs that sin is done by believing in Christ. It is not biblical. In Christ, we find redemption from sin or being cleared from the condemnation of sin. I dont know If we all have it cleared in our mind what this means. it means that the moment we accept and believe as John 5:24 teaches us, no one including God can hold against us our past sins. It is why Jesus died on the cross for us. We may add that this does not mean we are free to do at will as if their is no wrong that we may ever do.
so if their is no sin ever that can be counted against me, I should steal from my boss nor worry about sleeping with my neighbor's wife or lying in court to a judge. I should keep thinking and tell myself that the law was my guardian and now that I believe in Jesus the law cant do or say nothing to me.
Just a thought that hope one day do the research and have more statistics: How may SDA members are in prisons and compare them to other denominations? The fear and love of the Lord and His teachings is what keeps humanity a flow in this sinful and cruel world.

Why do you continue to ask these type of questions? Is it so you can say we keep the law and force the Sabbath not required of the Christian? No problem , its been tried since and before I came to post here.

bugkiller

 

[love2obey]

1. I pick Peter only because its obvious Judas isn't in compliance with the passage.I pick Peter only because its obvious Judas isn't in compliance with the passage.

That condition has nothing to do with the 10 Cs (the Law).

bugkiller

Why arent they both in compliance if they were both with Jesus?

 

[love2obey]

Why do you continue to ask these type of questions? Is it so you can say we keep the law and force the Sabbath not required of the Christian? No problem , its been tried since and before I came to post here.

bugkiller

just a thought...
So are you implying that Christians shouldnt to do anything that has to do with Israel?

 

[bugkiller]

Why arent they both in compliance if they were both with Jesus?

Simply being with Jesus doesn't mean compliance with anything.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

just a thought...
So are you implying that Christians shouldnt to do anything that has to do with Israel?

At best I see this as nothing but a trap question. No matter what I say here you will expand to something I didn't say nor imply.

bugkiller

 

[Bob S]

it all depends in the readers' own interpretation of what they read, being in the bible or what others say. No where have I said nor ever the SDA church teach that one can save itself by keeping the law. The core teachings of the bible is what I believe in and what the church teaches; one can loose its salvation by not doing God's will which is sin. It is not something that I or the church has invented as a new gospel. Since Adam and Eve, who were created in God's image, who introduced sin to humanity and gave reign to the devil on earth, there has been and will be sin on earth until the devil's reign on earth is put to an end by God. By the way, if I sound like Ms. White is because we believe in the same bible teaching.
Also let us be cleared and stop preaching or believing in false truth that has become popular as many imply with their new beliefs that sin is done by believing in Christ. It is not biblical. In Christ, we find redemption from sin or being cleared from the condemnation of sin. I dont know If we all have it cleared in our mind what this means. it means that the moment we accept and believe as John 5:24 teaches us, no one including God can hold against us our past sins. It is why Jesus died on the cross for us. We may add that this does not mean we are free to do at will as if their is no wrong that we may ever do.
so if their is no sin ever that can be counted against me, I should steal from my boss nor worry about sleeping with my neighbor's wife or lying in court to a judge. I should keep thinking and tell myself that the law was my guardian and now that I believe in Jesus the law cant do or say nothing to me.

You can't shake the belief that we are lawless if we believe what Paul wrote. (19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come.) Your belief is the furthest from the truth. New Covenant Christians are under the law of love. If we truly love our fellow man we will not steal, sleep with our neighbor's wife, or lie to anyone. Why can't you get that through your head? Why do you continue to write that we are lawless? Do you really read our posts or just gloss over them?

Just a thought that hope one day do the research and have more statistics: How may SDA members are in prisons and compare them to other denominations? The fear and love of the Lord and His teachings is what keeps humanity a flow in this sinful and cruel world.

Oh boy we are better than you are. Where are your statistics? Until you prove you are better than us I have to consider you statement as coming from the seat of your pants.

Lets cut to the chase. You say no one is saved by keeping the works of the law, well and good. On the other hand SDAs believe you cannot be saved unless you "keep" the Sabbath and pay tithe which is salvation by keeping the old covenant works of the law.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

just a thought...
So are you implying that Christians shouldnt to do anything that has to do with Israel?

Not sure this has anything to do with the OP, but it is simple - no trap at all,
direct from Scripture:
God says Himself
whoever blesses His people God blesses;
whoever
seeks harm to Israel, God Himself curses.

(and He always did; He always kept His Word)... (and so He will do always)...

 

[love2obey]

Simply being with Jesus doesn't mean compliance with anything.

bugkiller

Being with Jesus is the core of our beliefs as Christians. and John 5:24 clearly states that one needs to hear His voice for the blessings that one can receive by reading this text. So there is no better place for one to be than next to the Savior to hear the message of salvation.

 

[love2obey]

You can't shake the belief that we are lawless if we believe what Paul wrote. (19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come.) Your belief is the furthest from the truth. New Covenant Christians are under the law of love. If we truly love our fellow man we will not steal, sleep with our neighbor's wife, or lie to anyone. Why can't you get that through your head? Why do you continue to write that we are lawless? Do you really read our posts or just gloss over them?


Oh boy we are better than you are. Where are your statistics? Until you prove you are better than us I have to consider you statement as coming from the seat of your pants.

Lets cut to the chase. You say no one is saved by keeping the works of the law, well and good. On the other hand SDAs believe you cannot be saved unless you "keep" the Sabbath and pay tithe which is salvation by keeping the old covenant works of the law.

In your explanation of the law of love, you just describe the 10 commandments and the purpose of their existence. Like the constitution of a nation, out of love for the citizens of the nation it is created. Now like the corrupted people then with God's law, corrupt people today enforce the law to their benefits. If the law of God and the law of the land were fully kept as it was written to be, we would live in better world.
Bob, you know well that what keeps man from doing what man do best is the fear and love of the Lord. Those who only believe in the love of the Lord will for short eventually.

 

[love2obey]

At best I see this as nothing but a trap question. No matter what I say here you will expand to something I didn't say nor imply.

bugkiller

Why? do you know that the truth can be argued or challenged but never replaced. Otherwise, it was never the truth. People may try to change it but those who know what the truth is should and will always stand by it. Why? it will set us free.
In regard to implying things, As believers of God's word, we need to know what the truth is so we then cant or wont be wrong since we are not confuse about the meaning of His Word. it was Jesus defense when tempted and it should be ours as well.
If we say we believe in His Word, and we take His Word to be all that is written in the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, we accept that no being has the power to change what God says nor will ever think that God will make a mistake that needs correction. Therefore, we today believe in the same God that created Adam and Eve, and blessed Abraham to bring the message of salvation to the world. The same Creator and Anointer that since sin came about has been trying to save humanity from the devil. It is the message from Genesis to Revelation.

I dont see a trap there

 

[love2obey]

That keeps getting repeated - but those who object to the Law of God will "circle back" to the same sorts of factless accusation again - primarily because factless accusations don't need facts.

I dont know if you noticed, nothing new, more of the same as it was in the Garden with the woman and the serpent.
In Jeremiah 23, we find the Lord dealings with false prophets or teachers. The problem with today's teachers in general is that they are finding ways to make us more blessed and less accountable. They are not teaching to fear the Lord like all is well no matter what or how we do it. Sadly, we are not hearing the Lord as He truly is speaking to us. In Zachariah 12, He goes into details as to how He cleanses, make truly righteous His people. He tests the believers and those who pass the test will be with Him. With different words, we find the same teaching in 2 Tes 1.
My ways of thinking is that it is better to die believing in that I am the reason that I needed to be saved as well I am the reason why I cant be saved. It makes me love the Lord even more. Would you die for a knuckle head like me?