Paul's limited understanding!

[ac28]

Today's usage of "Christian" means one who fully believes in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Once a believer, one is sealed with the Holy Spirit. Without the Holy Spirit, no one can understand God's written word. Therefore, anything you might say concerning scripture would be meaningless.

 

[anonymouswho]

Such a belief is certainly possible for anyone who chooses to accept certain passages, deny others, and change the meaning of the Scriptures to that which best suits their fancy. Of course, for those of us who believe that the Bible is the actual word of God, it makes doing such a thing a bit more difficult

"I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me." ~John 6:38

"For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist." ~2 John 1:7

“I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, the

Hello. Im curious to know why being called the root and offspring of David means Yeshua was a spirit. David was the seed, and Yeshua was the root and offspring. David was a man, and the man Yeshua was his descendent.

John says...

"For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in (no definite article) flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist."

I still don't see how this means Yeshua existed or exists as a spiritual being. I think when you read "Jesus Christ coming in the flesh", you read "God coming in the flesh", as though Jesus is God and he's going to be disguised in something called "the flesh".

I understand it as Yeshua is "coming" (at a future time) in flesh. Because he is a man. I can't really make sense of it any other way.

John 6:38 is interesting. I'll post the entire passage, but it's long.

For the bread of God is ([he]: no pronoun in Greek) which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
For I came down from heaven (figuratively speaking as the bread of life), not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?
Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
I am that bread of life.
Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever (Greek: unto the age)."

Yeshua is not literally a piece of bread, he doesn't expect us to literally eat his flesh, and he did not literally come down from heaven. He is calling himself the living bread from heaven because Yeshua is the logos (the word/reasoning) of God. The bread is the word of God, Yeshua is the bread, you must eat his flesh (do the word) and you will have age-enduring life.

"But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." Matthew 4:4

"In the mean while his disciples prayed him, saying, Master, eat.
But he said unto them, I have meat to eat that ye know not of.
Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat?
Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.
John 4:31

Pilate saw Jesus and talked to Him face to face. Does that make Pilate an Apostle too

I think you misunderstood what I meant. I didn't mean that because Paul thought he saw Yeshua this makes him an Apostle. I meant that because Paul thought he saw Yeshua, Paul thought that made him an Apostle.

The light that blinded St. Paul was, no doubt, the glorious brilliance emanating forth from Jesus who, as the risen Lord, now ascended back to Glory, was both man AND God (see Revelation 21:23).

St. Paul NEVER tells us that the Lord "returned" to earth in glory at that time or that He was the Christ or that the Christ could now be found over here or over there (i.e. Matthew 24), only that He had seen and heard Him and that Jesus had chosen, called and sent him, "to bear His name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel".

Gotta go for a bit. I'll be back later to finish replying to the rest.

--David

Revelation 21:23 says...

"And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof."

I do not believe when we see Yeshua again, he will be a lamb. He did not look like this when He appeared to the disciples in any of the Gospels. Men didn't even recognize who he was, and if he was radiating light, I think they would have been afraid rather than having a conversation with him.

Paul says that Yeshua returned to make a special visit to see Paul. Matthew 24 doesn't say when Yeshua returns "in his glory"...it says...

"For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the son of man be." Matthew 24:27

Ananias saw a vision, so he never claimed to see Yeshua. Luke says only Paul saw the light and the two men heard the sound (Acts 9:7) and Paul says the two men saw the light but heard nothing (Acts 22:9). I highly doubt this contradiction is an accident. There is another man that claimed to see Jesus. Why is it that no Christian believes him?

"I saw a pillar of light exactly over my head, above the brightness of the sun, which descended gradually until it fell upon me. It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other 'This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!" -Joseph Smith

Why is Paul's encounter any different than Joseph Smiths? It's pretty obvious that this "beloved son" that Joseph saw (if he really saw it, because again, only he saw it) was not Yeshua, otherwise it would have taught him what Yeshua taught. The light that Paul saw would have also taught what Yeshua taught, but it doesn't. Which is my next concern...

Paul says...

"Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear." 1 Timothy 5:20

Yeshua says...

"Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican." Matthew 18:15

Paul says...

"Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?
For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?
If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.
Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void.
For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel! 1 Corinthians 9:11

Notice that Paul appeals to the Law, which he says we are no longer bound by. He then asks the Corinthians for material possessions, and then humbly acts like he doesn't really want them. This is a smart tactic. It allows him to say he wants things for his work, but people don't like to feel obligated. So he says he doesn't really want anything, so when the people give him what he asks for, they think their doing it out of charity. Yeshua says...

"Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give." Matthew 10:8

Paul says...

"For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel." 1 Corinthians 4:15


Yeshua says...

"But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, Christ; and all ye are brethren.
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, Christ." Matthew 23:8


Yeshua says...

"Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly." Matthew 6:1

Paul's says...

I'll just say 1 Corinthians 11. Also Paul's use of personal pronouns. He says "I", "me", "my" and "mine" 103 times in Romans, 175 times in 1 Corinthians, 103 times in 2 Corinthians, and 69 times in Galatians (which is only 6 chapters). This is one reason why Paul did not write Hebrews. The author of Hebrews only refers to himself 9 times.

"And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted." Matthew 23:12

That's enough for now. Thank you.

 

[anonymouswho]

Today's usage of "Christian" means one who fully believes in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Once a believer, one is sealed with the Holy Spirit. Without the Holy Spirit, no one can understand God's written word. Therefore, anything you might say concerning scripture would be meaningless.

I understand why you feel this way. Thank you for talking to me.

 

[ac28]

I understand why you feel this way. Thank you for talking to me.

Man, I hate to leave it at that. What stumbling block prevents you from believing that Christ Jesus died for your sins, was buried, and after 3 days, was resurrected by God? All you have do to get saved is to believe those things. It's a gift from your creator. If you don't believe these things, you won't have eternal life.
1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Ephesians 2:8-9. Paul is your only apostle. Concerning salvation and most other things, ONLY LISTEN TO PAUL. Like Paul said, 3 times, "Be Followers of Me." 1 Corinthians 4:16, 1 Corinthians 11:1, Philippians 3:17

 

[St_Worm2]

Hello. Im curious to know why being called the root and offspring of David means Yeshua was a spirit. David was the seed, and Yeshua was the root and offspring. David was a man, and the man Yeshua was his descendent.

"Root and offspring" = BOTH Father and Son of David = All of us, including King David, find our "root" in Jesus Christ (i.e. John 1:3; Colossians 1:16) as He is our Creator (and our Sustainer .. Colossians 1:17)

At His Incarnation however, He was born in the line of King David, the Messianic line.

Here is a similar passage to consider from Matthew 22:

41 Now while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them a question:
42 “What do you think about the Christ, whose son is He?” They said to Him, “The son of David.”
43 He said to them, “Then how does David in the Spirit call Him ‘Lord,’ saying,
44 ‘THE LORD SAID TO MY LORD,
“SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND,
UNTIL I PUT YOUR ENEMIES BENEATH YOUR FEET” ’?
45 “If David then calls Him ‘Lord,’ how is He his son?”
46 No one was able to answer Him a word, nor did anyone dare from that day on to ask Him another question.​

The Lord, Christ Jesus, is the root AND the descendant of King David. He is "Emmanuel" ("God with us" .. see Isaiah 7:14; Isaiah 9:6-7; Matthew 1:23).

Yours and His,
David

"Father, glorify Me together with Yourself,
with the glory which I had with You
before the world began"
John 17:5

​

 

[anonymouswho]

Man, I hate to leave it at that. What stumbling block prevents you from believing that Christ Jesus died for your sins, was buried, and after 3 days, was resurrected by God? All you have do to get saved is to believe those things. It's a gift from your creator. If you don't believe these things, you won't have eternal life.
1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Ephesians 2:8-9. Paul is your only apostle. Concerning salvation and most other things, ONLY LISTEN TO PAUL.

Its all good brother. I actually do believe that Yeshua died for our sins...

"And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." 1 John 2:2

I also believe he died (like really died...as all men do). And I believe the third day, he rose again because the Father, the one true God, gave him the authority to raise himself up.

However, I do not believe this is specifically a requirement for "eternal life"...

"And this is life eternal (aionios: concerning the age), that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." John 17:3

"And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
Thou knowest the commandments..." Luke 18:18

The two verses from Paul are Paul telling us that he is our apostle....

"And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe." Acts 15:7

This is interesting, because Paul is not very happy with Peter, John, and Jacob in Galatians chapter 2.

I will only listen to YHVH, His son Yeshua the Messiah, the Scriptures, the Apostles, and I like Jacob (James) as well. Thank you.

 

[anonymouswho]

"Root and offspring" = BOTH Father and Son of David = All of us, including King David, find our "root" in Jesus Christ (i.e. John 1:3; Colossians 1:16) as He is our Creator (and our Sustainer .. Colossians 1:17)

At His Incarnation however, He was born in the line of King David, the Messianic line.

Here is a similar passage to consider from Matthew 22:

41 Now while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them a question:
42 “What do you think about the Christ, whose son is He?” They said to Him, “The son of David.”
43 He said to them, “Then how does David in the Spirit call Him ‘Lord,’ saying,
44 ‘THE LORD SAID TO MY LORD,
“SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND,
UNTIL I PUT YOUR ENEMIES BENEATH YOUR FEET” ’?
45 “If David then calls Him ‘Lord,’ how is He his son?”
46 No one was able to answer Him a word, nor did anyone dare from that day on to ask Him another question.​

The Lord, Christ Jesus, is the root AND the descendant of King David. He is "Emmanuel" ("God with us" .. see Isaiah 7:14; Isaiah 9:6-7; Matthew 1:23).

Yours and His,
David

"Father, glorify Me together with Yourself,
with the glory which I had with You
before the world began"
John 17:5

​

I get what you're saying, but I have trouble reconciling your interpretation with the terms associated with the anology.

A root is not the "father" of an offspring. The root must stem from a seed, and the seed must come from another plant. David, the other plant, produced a seed. This seed then rooted and grew into Yeshua.

Yeshua, the man, is the son of Joseph. Joseph is the descendant of David. Once Yeshua was baptised by John the Baptist and the spirit descended on him like a dove, he became the Messiah- the anointed one. So he was no longer Joseph's son, nor was he David's. He became the son of God.

Yeshua could no longer call David his father, because he had one Father...

"And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven." Matthew 23:9

So likewise....we are the root and offspring of our father, but...

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." 1 John 3:2

Anyways, I'm sorry but we are getting off topic. This thread is about Paul. What do you think is going on here....

"And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation (δοκέω: seemed/that which is supposed), lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain. " Galatians 2:2

"But of these who seemed (δοκέω) to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person for they who seemed (δοκέω) to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me:
But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
(For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles
And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed (δοκέω) to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. (When did this happen and why did Paul "depart" from the rest?)
Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do (This is not what was determined at the Jerusalem Council).
But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all (Matthew 18:15), If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? (Acts doesn't record any of this happenening)" Galatians 2:6

"Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things." 1 John 2:18

Thank you.

 

[nothead]

I get what you're saying, but I have trouble reconciling your interpretation with the terms associated with the anology.

A root is not the "father" of an offspring. The root must stem from a seed, and the seed must come from another plant. David, the other plant, produced a seed. This seed then rooted and grew into Yeshua.

Yeshua, the man, is the son of Joseph. Joseph is the descendant of David. Once Yeshua was baptised by John the Baptist and the spirit descended on him like a dove, he became the Messiah- the anointed one. So he was no longer Joseph's son, nor was he David's. He became the son of God.

Yeshua could no longer call David his father, because he had one Father...

"And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven." Matthew 23:9

So likewise....we are the root and offspring of our father, but...

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." 1 John 3:2

Anyways, I'm sorry but we are getting off topic. This thread is about Paul. What do you think is going on here....

"And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation (δοκέω: seemed/that which is supposed), lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain. " Galatians 2:2

"But of these who seemed (δοκέω) to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person for they who seemed (δοκέω) to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me:
But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
(For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles
And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed (δοκέω) to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. (When did this happen and why did Paul "depart" from the rest?)
Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do (This is not what was determined at the Jerusalem Council).
But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all (Matthew 18:15), If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? (Acts doesn't record any of this happenening)" Galatians 2:6

"Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things." 1 John 2:18

Thank you.

I view the disciples and apostles (Paul esp.) to be in harmony after their meet.

You don't think so, then why?

I view Paul's REBUKE to Peter as an awakening to Peter. He did remember his dream and the fact that God's intent rendered unto men in TORAH is now rendered differently. Not only regarding circumcision, but also regarding the itty bitty laws, sublaws, bylaws, extended laws according to circumstances, ceremonial law and traditional laws.

But SHEMA remains the Highest Law and was NEVER abrogated, done away with, retired or disposed of. It in fact is ENHANCED by the Circumcision of the Heart, the rebirth in Spirit Jesus told Nicodemus he must have. Paul calls this AGAPE, the Evidence Most of the Baptized Ones. The one TRUMPING all other Gifts of Spirit.

 

[nothead]

Today's usage of "Christian" means one who fully believes in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Once a believer, one is sealed with the Holy Spirit. Without the Holy Spirit, no one can understand God's written word. Therefore, anything you might say concerning scripture would be meaningless.

Are you pentecostal as well?

 

[nothead]

Man, I hate to leave it at that. What stumbling block prevents you from believing that Christ Jesus died for your sins, was buried, and after 3 days, was resurrected by God? All you have do to get saved is to believe those things. It's a gift from your creator. If you don't believe these things, you won't have eternal life.
1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Ephesians 2:8-9. Paul is your only apostle. Concerning salvation and most other things, ONLY LISTEN TO PAUL. Like Paul said, 3 times, "Be Followers of Me." 1 Corinthians 4:16, 1 Corinthians 11:1, Philippians 3:17

That's all the criminal on his cross had to believe...most of us have more expected of us. If you want to be a CRIMINAL that's all you gotta do is believe this, that means all you have to present to God is the SINNER'S CONFESSION sir.

 

[ac28]

That's all the criminal on his cross had to believe...most of us have more expected of us. If you want to be a CRIMINAL that's all you gotta do is believe this, that means all you have to present to God is the SINNER'S CONFESSION sir.

Surely you're smarter than that. Do you just sit around and make this stuff up? Salvation is, and should be, simple. There are no works you can do for your salvation - absolutely nothing. Of course, there are many very arrogant people that don't believe this. They think they can do it all themselves. They don't need God.

It was impossible for the criminal on the cross to believe Paul's gospel (i Corinthians 15:1-4) because, at that point, Christ hadn't died, or been buried, or resurrected.

Paul is the only apostle available for today. He wrote 14 out of the 27 books in the N.T., more than half. Without Paul, you'll know very little about Christ. All the other writers in the N.T. wrote to the circumcision, the Jews. Paul is all you got.

 

[nothead]

Surely you're smarter than that. Do you just sit around and make this stuff up? Salvation is, and should be, simple. There are no works you can do for your salvation - absolutely nothing. Of course, there are many very arrogant people that don't believe this. They think they can do it all themselves. They don't need God.

It was impossible for the criminal on the cross to believe Paul's gospel (i Corinthians 15:1-4) because, at that point, Christ hadn't died, or been buried, or resurrected.

Paul is the only apostle available for today. He wrote 14 out of the 27 books in the N.T., more than half. Without Paul, you'll know very little about Christ. All the other writers in the N.T. wrote to the circumcision, the Jews. Paul is all you got.

Paul never said the three premises were all you needed. Where you come up with this drivel? Making things SIMPLE isn't as simple as you make it, friend.

He said FAITH is all you need, but what is FAITH in the spiritual sense? For bingbrains wayell, it's the three premises.

 

[ac28]

Are you pentecostal as well?

Of course not. The gifts phased out in Acts 28:28, the same exact time that Israel temporarily ceased to be God's people, as they still are today. The "gifts" of the Holy Spirit were part of the New Covenant, which was only given to Israel, for the purpose of them being able to keep the law, a skill that they had never been able to do on their own.

 

[ac28]

Paul never said the three premises were all you needed. Where you come up with this drivel? Making things SIMPLE isn't as simple as you make it, friend.

He said FAITH is all you need, but what is FAITH in the spiritual sense? For bingbrains wayell, it's the three premises.

Faith is seeing, believing, and acting on. It is the substance, the reality, of things hoped for. It is assumed that faith is needed. Faith has been required throughout the Bible.

Saying what I said is drivel is much worse than the pot calling the kettle black. This is my last post to you. I much prefer talking to people with at least a little intelligence and to those that aren't jerks. Have a good life.

 

[ToBeLoved]

A root is not the "father" of an offspring. The root must stem from a seed, and the seed must come from another plant. David, the other plant, produced a seed. This seed then rooted and grew into Yeshua.

Yeshua, the man, is the son of Joseph. Joseph is the descendant of David. Once Yeshua was baptised by John the Baptist and the spirit descended on him like a dove, he became the Messiah- the anointed one. So he was no longer Joseph's son, nor was he David's. He became the son of God.

Jesus was NOT Joseph's son in any biological way. Mary was also of the line of David, that is where Jesus got that line.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Of course not. The gifts phased out in Acts 28:28, the same exact time that Israel temporarily ceased to be God's people, as they still are today. The "gifts" of the Holy Spirit were part of the New Covenant, which was only given to Israel, for the purpose of them being able to keep the law, a skill that they had never been able to do on their own.

Huh? '

What makes you think that the Holy Spirit is only for Israel? That is very odd. All believers in CHRIST have the Holy Spirit.

It has nothing to do with the law. Everything to do with Jesus Christ.

 

[nothead]

Of course not. The gifts phased out in Acts 28:28, the same exact time that Israel temporarily ceased to be God's people, as they still are today. The "gifts" of the Holy Spirit were part of the New Covenant, which was only given to Israel, for the purpose of them being able to keep the law, a skill that they had never been able to do on their own.

Posh. It obvious you haven't any idea what the Holy Spirit is or even it's main function.

This is baybee time. Sunday School is your next step, sir.

 

[nothead]

Faith is seeing, believing, and acting on. It is the substance, the reality, of things hoped for. It is assumed that faith is needed. Faith has been required throughout the Bible.

Saying what I said is drivel is much worse than the pot calling the kettle black. This is my last post to you. I much prefer talking to people with at least a little intelligence and to those that aren't jerks. Have a good life.

Yup, so faith is ongoing and ideally increasing. Saved by faith is the Protestant Creedo. However rarely do they have a SMIDGEN of knowing what faith really is. Faith is like a mustard seed. And the Holy Spirit COMES by faith. So then we need just a LITTLE to find true Holy Spirit.

However, like a mountain moved this SPIRIT RARELY comes as it did to the first two gen saints. This is WHY they are definitive whereas later Greek Theologians ARE NOT.

You said the three premises intellectually affirmed IS all you need to be saved. I stand upon what I believe and your belief is drivel.

 

[Der Alte]

Yeshua also says that the son of man appearing shall be as lightening shining in the east, and seen in the west. This means a lot of people were going to see him return. He says if anyone tells you he is in the "secret chambers" don't believe them. This seems to mean "if anyone says I am in his head" * * *

Now, I do not believe in an "incarnation", nor do I believe in the virgin birth. I think there are enough contradictions and omissions from both Matthew and Luke that God made it pretty easy for us to see it doesn't belong. It took me many years to let go of it, but I simply said...."I'm going to read the third chapter of Luke, and if this is where he starts his Gospel, please show me". After that, I found many more things wrong with the first two chapters of both Gospels. But that's for another thread

. . . .

You can't see the huge contradiction here? You blow off Paul's experience as something in his head but you base your understanding of Luke chapter 3 on some esoteric private "revelation?"

 

[nothead]

You can't see the huge contradiction here? You blow off Paul's experience as something in his head but you base your understanding of Luke chapter 3 on some esoteric private "revelation?"

Incarnation is only directly spoken of POSSIBLY in 1 Tim 3:16 a VARIANT translation of God not Jesus becoming "manifest in the flesh." So then this is not NORMATIVE Theology but something possibly said a single time. And I say it was NEVER said.