LDS "There are save two churches only..."

[Jane_Doe]

Tell us how there was no priesthood on earth until it was restored to Joseph Smith.

Please answer the question I asked you first:
The Bible doesn't tell me where John the Revelator is nowadays. Does that mean the Bible is false?
After you answer that question then we can continue onto other questions.

 

[Rescued One]

2 Nephi 26
20 And the Gentiles are lifted up in the pride of their eyes, and have stumbled, because of the greatness of their stumbling block, that they have built up many churches; nevertheless, they put down the power and miracles of God, and preach up unto themselves their own wisdom and their own learning, that they may get gain and grind upon the face of the poor.

21 And there are many churches built up which cause envyings, and strifes, and malice.

22 And there are also secret combinations, even as in times of old, according to the combinations of the devil, for he is the founder of all these things; yea, the founder of murder, and works of darkness; yea, and he leadeth them by the neck with a flaxen cord, until he bindeth them with his strong cords forever.

1 Nephi 14
8 And it came to pass that when the angel had spoken these words, he said unto me: Rememberest thou the covenants of the Father unto the house of Israel? I said unto him, Yea.

9 And it came to pass that he said unto me: Look, and behold that great and abominable church, which is the mother of abominations, whose founder is the devil.

10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whosobelongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the harlot of all the earth.

11 And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the harlot of all the earth, and she sat upon many waters; and she had dominion over all the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people.

Doctrine and Covenants 1:30
30 And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually—

 

[Rescued One]

2 Nephi 26
20 And the Gentiles are lifted up in the pride of their eyes, and have stumbled, because of the greatness of their stumbling block, that they have built up many churches; nevertheless, they put down the power and miracles of God, and preach up unto themselves their own wisdom and their own learning, that they may get gain and grind upon the face of the poor.

21 And there are many churches built up which cause envyings, and strifes, and malice.

22 And there are also secret combinations, even as in times of old, according to the combinations of the devil, for he is the founder of all these things; yea, the founder of murder, and works of darkness; yea, and he leadeth them by the neck with a flaxen cord, until he bindeth them with his strong cords forever.

1 Nephi 14
8 And it came to pass that when the angel had spoken these words, he said unto me: Rememberest thou the covenants of the Father unto the house of Israel? I said unto him, Yea.

9 And it came to pass that he said unto me: Look, and behold that great and abominable church, which is the mother of abominations, whose founder is the devil.

10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whosobelongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the harlot of all the earth.

11 And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the harlot of all the earth, and she sat upon many waters; and she had dominion over all the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people.

Doctrine and Covenants 1:30
30 And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually—

This is in your scriptures so you can't brush it off as speculation.

 

[Jane_Doe]

2 Nephi 26
20 And the Gentiles are lifted up in the pride of their eyes, and have stumbled, because of the greatness of their stumbling block, that they have built up many churches; nevertheless, they put down the power and miracles of God, and preach up unto themselves their own wisdom and their own learning, that they may get gain and grind upon the face of the poor.

21 And there are many churches built up which cause envyings, and strifes, and malice.

22 And there are also secret combinations, even as in times of old, according to the combinations of the devil, for he is the founder of all these things; yea, the founder of murder, and works of darkness; yea, and he leadeth them by the neck with a flaxen cord, until he bindeth them with his strong cords forever.

1 Nephi 14
8 And it came to pass that when the angel had spoken these words, he said unto me: Rememberest thou the covenants of the Father unto the house of Israel? I said unto him, Yea.

9 And it came to pass that he said unto me: Look, and behold that great and abominable church, which is the mother of abominations, whose founder is the devil.

10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whosobelongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the harlot of all the earth.

11 And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the harlot of all the earth, and she sat upon many waters; and she had dominion over all the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people.

Doctrine and Covenants 1:30
30 And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually—

Was this in response to any post? (It helps to quote the post you are responding to)

 

[Rescued One]

Excerpt from the pre-1990 temple endowment:
http://www.i4m.com/think/temples/temple_ceremony.htm
THE LONE AND DREARY WORLD: THE TELESTIAL KINGDOM

(Adam and Eve are shown full view for the first time. They are clad in animal skins which cover their bodies to their knees. The lone and dreary world is represented by desert scenery. Adam kneels at his stone altar, spreads his hands to heaven, and piously invokes the Lord.)

NARRATOR: We now go with Adam and Eve into the lone and dreary world. Brethren and sisters, this represents the Telestial kingdom, or the world in which we now live. Adam, on finding himself in the lone and dreary world, built an altar and offered prayer, and these are the words he uttered:

ADAM:: Oh God, hear the words of my mouth.
Oh God, hear the words of my mouth.
Oh God, hear the words of my mouth.

(As Adam prays, Lucifer approaches from behind out of the shadows.)

LUCIFER:: I hear you; what is it you want?

(Although Adam has already encountered Lucifer in the Garden of Eden, he fails to recognize him at this appearance.)

ADAM:: Who are you?

LUCIFER:: I am the God of this world.

ADAM:: You, the God of this world?

LUCIFER:: Yes, what do you want?

ADAM:: I am looking for messengers.

LUCIFER:: Oh, you want someone to preach to you. You want religion, do you? I will have preachers here presently. There will be many willing to preach to you the philosophies of men mingled with scripture.

(Lucifer turns his head as a sectarian minister approaches.)

LUCIFER:: Good Morning sir!

SECTARIAN MINISTER: Good morning!

(The preacher turns and looks into the camera.)

SECTARIAN MINISTER: A fine congregation!

LUCIFER:: Yes, they are a very good people. They are concerned about religion. Are you a preacher?

LUCIFER:: Oh, you want someone to preach to you. You want religion, do you? I will have preachers here presently. There will be many willing to preach to you the philosophies of men mingled with scripture.

(Lucifer turns his head as a sectarian minister approaches.)

LUCIFER:: Good Morning sir!

SECTARIAN MINISTER: Good morning!

(The preacher turns and looks into the camera.)

SECTARIAN MINISTER: A fine congregation!

LUCIFER:: Yes, they are a very good people. They are concerned about religion. Are you a preacher?

SECTARIAN MINISTER: I am.

LUCIFER:: Have you been to college and received training for the ministry?

SECTARIAN MINISTER: Certainly! A man cannot preach unless has been trained for the ministry.

LUCIFER:: Do you preach the orthodox religion?

SECTARIAN MINISTER: Yes, that is what I preach.

LUCIFER:: If you will preach your orthodox religion to these people, and convert them, I will pay you well.

SECTARIAN MINISTER: I will do my best.

(Lucifer guides the preacher to Adam and Eve, who stand nearby.)

LUCIFER:: Here is a man who desires religion. He is very much exercised, and seems to be sincere.

(As Lucifer presents the preacher to Adam and Eve he steps back and observes the ensuing conversation. The preacher is made to sound sincere, although misguided and credulous. Adam appears humble, faithful and immovable in his determination to serve God. He is not swayed by the preacher, and is astounded by the doctrines espoused by the preacher.)

SECTARIAN MINISTER: I understand that you are inquiring after religion.

ADAM:: I was calling upon Father.

SECTARIAN MINISTER: I am glad to know that you were calling upon Father. Do you believe in a God who is without body, parts, or passions; who sits on the top of a topless throne; whose center is everywhere and whose circumference is nowhere; who fills the universe, and yet is so small that he can dwell in your heart; who is surrounded by myriads of beings who have been saved by grace, not for any act of theirs, but by His good pleasure. Do you believe in such a great Being?

ADAM:: I do not. I cannot comprehend such a being.

SECTARIAN MINISTER: That is the beauty of it. Perhaps you do not believe in a devil, and in that great hell, the bottomless pit, where there is a lake of fire and brimstone into which the wicked are cast, and where they are continually burning, but none never consumed?

ADAM:: I do not believe in any such place.

SECTARIAN MINISTER: My dear friend, I am sorry for you.

LUCIFER:: I am sorry, very very sorry! What is it you want?

ADAM:: But I am looking for messengers from my Father.

LUCIFER: If you will preach your orthodox religion to these people, and convert them, I will pay you well.
LUCIFER:: If you will preach your orthodox religion to these people, and convert them, I will pay you well.

SECTARIAN MINISTER: I will do my best.

(Lucifer guides the preacher to Adam and Eve, who stand nearby.)

LUCIFER:: Here is a man who desires religion. He is very much exercised, and seems to be sincere.

(As Lucifer presents the preacher to Adam and Eve he steps back and observes the ensuing conversation. The preacher is made to sound sincere, although misguided and credulous. Adam appears humble, faithful and immovable in his determination to serve God. He is not swayed by the preacher, and is astounded by the doctrines espoused by the preacher.)

SECTARIAN MINISTER: I understand that you are inquiring after religion.

ADAM:: I was calling upon Father.

SECTARIAN MINISTER: I am glad to know that you were calling upon Father. Do you believe in a God who is without body, parts, or passions; who sits on the top of a topless throne; whose center is everywhere and whose circumference is nowhere; who fills the universe, and yet is so small that he can dwell in your heart; who is surrounded by myriads of beings who have been saved by grace, not for any act of theirs, but by His good pleasure. Do you believe in such a great Being?

ADAM:: I do not. I cannot comprehend such a being.

SECTARIAN MINISTER: That is the beauty of it. Perhaps you do not believe in a devil, and in that great hell, the bottomless pit, where there is a lake of fire and brimstone into which the wicked are cast, and where they are continually burning, but none never consumed?

ADAM:: I do not believe in any such place.

SECTARIAN MINISTER: My dear friend, I am sorry for you.

LUCIFER:: I am sorry, very very sorry! What is it you want?

ADAM:: But I am looking for messengers from my Father.

(The scene changes to a view of the Celestial Kingdom, where Elohim reigns from a white throne afront tall white pillars. He is radiant as before, and his voice resonates as he speaks with Jehovah, who stands before him.)

 

[Rescued One]

The lines that are crossed through have been deleted.

The Priesthood manual Search These Commandments from 1984 taught the following:

President Wilford Woodruff explained: “[God] has had his endowments a great many years ago. He has ascended to his thrones, principalities and powers in the eternities. We are his children.....We are here to fill a probation and receive an education” (Deseret News Weekly, 28 Sept. 1881, p. 546).

 

[Jane_Doe]

The lines that are crossed through have been deleted.

The Priesthood manual Search These Commandments from 1984 taught the following:

President Wilford Woodruff explained: “[God] has had his endowments a great many years ago. He has ascended to his thrones, principalities and powers in the eternities. We are his children.....We are here to fill a probation and receive an education” (Deseret News Weekly, 28 Sept. 1881, p. 546).

Phoebe, I'm really not understanding the purpose of all these posts you're spamming. Could you help me understand how this relates to any of what we were talking about, and what's the point you're trying to make?

 

[mmksparbud]

John 21
21 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man(John) do?
22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.
23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?

So where is John?

The Three Nephites are still out there, Ya never know when they will come for a visit.

Are you kidding??? So where is John??? This in no way says that he will live until Jesus returns!!! You guys really do not read the bible do you?? It is explained in the very next verse!!! And you quoted it!!!

Joh 21:22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.
Joh 21:23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?

 

[ArmenianJohn]

Phoebe, I'm really not understanding the purpose of all these posts you're spamming. Could you help me understand how this relates to any of what we were talking about, and what's the point you're trying to make?

They're the Temple Ceremony scripts. She's informing people of what goes on in the Mormon Temples and the stories they tell and how they teach that Lucifer and Christians are in league with each other to do evil.

I guess you're not a temple mormon? Health in the navel, marrow in the bones... lol

 

[Jane_Doe]

Are you kidding??? So where is John??? This in no way says that he will live until Jesus returns!!! You guys really do not read the bible do you?? It is explained in the very next verse!!! And you quoted it!!!

Joh 21:22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.
Joh 21:23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?

The question was where is he (John). Yes, he's tarrying, but where?

 

[Jane_Doe]

They're the Temple Ceremony scripts. She's informing people of what goes on in the Mormon Temples and the stories they tell and how they teach that Lucifer and Christians are in league with each other to do evil.

My question to Phoebe was what does that have anything to do with what we were discussing, or what her point was in posting it. She's either crazy topic jumping in some nonsensical smear campaign, or she has some logic that I'm not following-- being charitable I'm going with the latter theory and asking what her logic is.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Please answer the question I asked you first:
The Bible doesn't tell me where John the Revelator is nowadays. Does that mean the Bible is false?
After you answer that question then we can continue onto other questions.

*Bump*

 

[withwonderingawe]

Are you kidding??? So where is John??? This in no way says that he will live until Jesus returns!!! You guys really do not read the bible do you?? It is explained in the very next verse!!! And you quoted it!!!

Joh 21:22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.
Joh 21:23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?

well has Jesus come?

 

[Rescued One]

well has Jesus come?

Why would ypu ask???

 

[withwonderingawe]

Why would ypu ask???

follow the question back

 

[mmksparbud]

The question was where is he (John). Yes, he's tarrying, but where?

He died!! He is nowhere until the resurrection. I do not believe you go to either hell or heaven at death. The judgment day the wicked are given their sentence, the dead saved are resurrected on Christ's return. I know you believe something else.

 

[Rescued One]

follow the question back

I did. But apparently you didn't understand the verse in Revelation.

 

[ViaCrucis]

The question was where is he (John). Yes, he's tarrying, but where?

Tradition states that the Fourth Evangelist/disciple whom Jesus loved is St. John the Apostle, though that isn't indicated in the text so it's not a given. Further, Christ's words are hypothetical. Tradition, the same thing that identifies the Fourth Evangelist with St. John the Apostle, also says that he passed away of old age. He's not tarrying anywhere.

Due to confusion over several Johns from early Christian history, the figure of St. John the Presbyter and St. John the Apostle (and thus St. John the Evangelist) came to be identified as one and the same, this likely led to St. John the Divine being identified with the Apostle, and the traditions associated with him at Ephesus. Medieval legends concerning "Prester John" almost certainly have some basis in this text in the fourth Gospel, which also may have at least in some aspects inspired the legend of the Wandering Jew.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

We have fullness of the Gospel.

If that were true it would look like the Church's Gospel, the unerring and unchanging Gospel of Jesus Christ which His holy, catholic, and apostolic Church has held onto, preserved, and confessed from the beginning until today. St. Paul reminds us not to trust any other gospel than the one he and his fellow apostles proclaimed--not even if an angel preaches to us another gospel are we to accept it, but to regard it as anathema.

If Mormons want the fullness of the Gospel they are more than welcome to come and enter into the Church, the doors are wide, the banquet table is set, come and enjoy the feast at the table of the Lord.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[tickingclocker]

.