Exodus 20:9-11 (Creation)

[Colter]

I just wanted Colter to debate this from the start, show us what he's got to debate, if anything, where he got it from, is he just parroting another self proclaimed scholar? Or did he think for himself? Did he get it from a book that's not the bible? I need proof it isn't just speculation as well as why/how it definitely overrides the words of the Bible. I'd also like to get a look at those well honed debating skills, I've evidently missed out on up to now..

I just wanted Colter to debate this from the start, show us what he's got to debate, if anything, where he got it from, is he just parroting another self proclaimed scholar? Or did he think for himself? Did he get it from a book that's not the bible? I need proof it isn't just speculation as well as why/how it definitely overrides the words of the Bible. I'd also like to get a look at those well honed debating skills, I've evidently missed out on up to now..

This thread is about a YEC vs. science and evolution, it's not about Colter or the Urantia Book. Evolution was around long before the UB anyway.

So, if you want to debate YEC faith or theory against the observations of science than we can but hijacking the thread isn't appropriate.

 

[Kenny'sID]

I was born again 31 years ago, I've surrendered to God and to Jesus. I just don't make a false idols out of the Bible books written by fallible holy men.

It appears you are saying the Bible is fowled because it was written by fallible men, so if that is the case, just what were you born again too? If Jesus and what he did for us is your answer, how can you be sure Jesus even existed or that which you are born again too is even accurate?

 

[Colter]

Urantia is a book -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Urantia_Book
"The Urantia Book (sometimes called the Urantia Papers or The Fifth Epochal Revelation) is a spiritual and philosophical book that originated in Chicago sometime between 1924 and 1955. The authorship remains a matter of speculation.

The authors introduce the word "Urantia" as the name of the planet Earth and state that their intent is to "present enlarged concepts and advanced truth."[1][2] The book aims to unite religion, science and philosophy,[3] and its enormous amount of material about science is unique among literature claimed to be presented by celestial beings.[4] Among other topics, the book discusses the origin and meaning of life, humankind's place in the universe, the relationship between God and people, and the life of Jesus. It has been described as "a rich and complex moral narrative, equal parts Tolkien and St. Paul."[5]

The Urantia Foundation, a U.S.-based non-profit group, first published The Urantia Book in 1955."

=======================
You have claimed to believe what is written there.

That book promotes a 4.5 billion year evolution as its "genesis" as its 'doctrine on origins' - you don't find that in Ex 20:11 or in Gen 2:1-4.

Your condemnation of the Bible so far - fits perfectly with Urantia doctrine - it does not fit with the Bible.

There are millions of Christians who believe in an old earth and evolution that have never heard of the UB.

 

[Kenny'sID]

This thread is about a YEC vs. science and evolution, it's not about Colter or the Urantia Book.

You made it about Colter/Urantia when Colter started spouting Urantian ideas, so yes it is about that.

 

[Colter]

It appears you are saying the Bible is fowled because it was written by fallible men, so if that is the case, just what were you born again too? If Jesus and what he did for us is your answer, how can you be sure Jesus even existed or that which you are born again too is even accurate?

I'm born again of the spirit, one knows such a thing when it happens. How did the apostles know who Jesus was? The Father within them bore witness to the truth of the Son (so says the reports). The spirit of truth that Jesus poured out upon all flesh is also the conviction of faith. For me the Bible or the 4 gospels or other writings, don't have to be perfect to see the spiritual truths within them. They are as imperfect as we should expect them to be. The church has promoted the infallibility of scripture and the infallibility of their councils as the foundation of their authority.

But lacking the visible presence of Jesus or God it is tempting to make idols to satisfy our thirst for truth.

 

[Colter]

You made it about Colter/Urantia when Colter started spouting Urantian ideas, so yes it is about that.

Where did I do that? You haven't even read it LOL! The fact that Jesus taught a gospel before the "cross gospel" isn't new to the UB, Paul fell out some of the apostles 2,000 years ago!

Anyway, you are just joining in with the others here who are uncomfortable with conflicting facts.

 

[KWCrazy]

Where the King James differs from the original Hebrew, the original Hebrew is wrong.
2 Samuel 21:19 And there was again a battle in Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Jaareoregim, a Bethlehemite, slew the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the staff of whose spear was like a weaver's beam.

Some Biblical scholar, huh? How does someone with NO understanding of the Scriptures pretend to be an authority without at least googling some more well constructed arguments?

 

[KWCrazy]

I just looked up Urantia online. Were we so lacking in false, man-made religions that we had to create another one? Is the banner of False Prophet so appealing that someone had to make up yet another means of deceiving would-be believers with the doctrine of foolish men?

The Lord has a place for false prophets. Rev 20:10 (KJV) "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

 

[4x4toy]

Where did I do that? You haven't even read it LOL! The fact that Jesus taught a gospel before the "cross gospel" isn't new to the UB, Paul fell out some of the apostles 2,000 years ago!

Anyway, you are just joining in with the others here who are uncomfortable with conflicting facts.

Cross gospel ? Are you Jehovahs Witness ?

 

[BobRyan]

Cross gospel ? Are you Jehovahs Witness ?

"Book of Urantia" -- believer not JW in this one case.

My argument is that if someone believes Urantia instead of the Bible they cannot argue that Christians don't know what the Bible says , or don't know which parts of the Bible to reject - just because we believe the Bible and not Urantia.

Rather they can only argue "please believe Urantia instead of the Bible and here is why" -- that is the only approach that would make sense.

Just as atheists will argue "please believe evolution instead of the Bible" - and then they give all sorts of reasons as to why they think that makes sense.

Still if you follow Hoghead1's posts and Colte's posts on this thread they explain very clearly various points where they reject the Bible and choose some other belief system "instead".

 

[BobRyan]

Many Christians accept the Bible as a book of truth - it contains truth - about things in this life, about history, and about things to come both in this world and in heaven.

Others may mock them as "virgin birthists" or "world wide floodist" or "resurrection-ists" or "creation-ists" etc.

But this does not change the fact that the Bible is true - and declares actual truth for this life and the life to come.

This is so glaringly obvious that a great many atheists upon reading the Bible and finding it to be factual - turn from atheism to Christianity on the "Bible is TRUE after all" model rather than "Well what do you know - the Bible really IS myth" model.

Dawkins, Provine, P.Z.Meyers and many other atheists admit that they used to be Christians until they discovered the Bible to be myth and THEN they became atheist/agnostic.

For many this is simply stating the obvious.

How about you?

Amen! I used to be an atheist. Then I started to believe the Bible. Jesus was right that I shouldn't be a hypocrite. I found myself agreeing with Jesus.

You end up agreeing with him enough, you end up believing!

Thanks for your post!

Great post. Great testimony.

Thanks for posting that!

(Hope you don't mind if I share your post on one or two other threads)

 

[BobRyan]

Where the King James differs from the original Hebrew, the original Hebrew is wrong.

2 Samuel 21:19 And there was again a battle in Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Jaareoregim, a Bethlehemite, slew the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the staff of whose spear was like a weaver's beam.

Notice their focus on 2Sam 21:19 when the thread is about Exodus 20:11??

NIV
19 In another battle with the Philistines at Gob, Elhanan son of Jair the Bethlehemite killed the brother of Goliath the Gittite, who had a spear with a shaft like a weaver’s rod.

NKJV
19 Again there was war at Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Jaare-Oregim the Bethlehemite killed the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver’s beam.

Youngs Literal Translation
19 And the battle is again in Gob with the Philistines, and Elhanan son of Jaare-Oregim, the Beth-Lehemite, smiteth [a brother of] Goliath the Gittite, and the wood of his spear [is] like a beam of weavers.

 

[BobRyan]

The Bible has many errors but the proud deny the flaws as they see the ends justifying the means. Religion lags behind the rest of the educated world by centuries.

This is the "attack-the-bible-first" defense for faith in evolutionism.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Anyway, you are just joining in with the others here who are uncomfortable with conflicting facts.

Conflicting facts? If they conflict with the Bible, what proof do you have they are facts at all?

Where did I do that?

OK, lets start there, are you saying you didn't do that?

 

[Kenny'sID]

"Book of Urantia" -- believer not JW in this one case.

My argument is that if someone believes Urantia instead of the Bible they cannot argue that Christians don't know what the Bible says , or don't know which parts of the Bible to reject.

Rather they can only argue "please believe Urantia instead of the Bible and here is why" -- that is the only approach that would make sense.

Just as atheists will argue "please believe evolution instead of the Bible" - then then they give all sorts of reasons as to why they think that makes sense.

Still if you follow Hoghead1's posts and Colte's posts on this thread they explain very clearly various points where they reject the Bible and choose some other belief system "instead".

And that's pretty much where this whole thing ends before it really even gets started. Always a fair thing to hear both sides in Christian to Christian argument but when one side says right off, they only believe what parts of the Bible they choose to and the rest is in ere, what does a Christian do with that? I know what to do with it, but what about someone who comes in here looking for the truth? All I can do is hope they don't step in the snare.

Conflicting interpretations are one thing but to keep making that claim as the only issue here, when the fact is huge chunks of the Bible are being thrown out as Fallacy, that goes far beyond interpretation issues. Keep allowing that and next thing you know, the whole Bible has been tossed for something completely different.

 

[Colter]

This is the "attack-the-bible-first" defense for faith in evolutionism.

The bible conflicts with itself let alone the facts of scientific inquiry.

 

[Colter]

I just looked up Urantia online. Were we so lacking in false, man-made religions that we had to create another one? Is the banner of False Prophet so appealing that someone had to make up yet another means of deceiving would-be believers with the doctrine of foolish men?

The Lord has a place for false prophets. Rev 20:10 (KJV) "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

Fortunately I'm not a false prophet and your hope for others to go into a lake of fire is just the hatred of your own heart.

 

[4x4toy]

Conflicting facts? If they conflict with the Bible, what proof do you have they are facts at all?



OK, lets start there, are you saying you didn't do that?[/QUO

Notice their focus on 2Sam 21:19 when the thread is about Exodus 20:11??

NIV
19 In another battle with the Philistines at Gob, Elhanan son of Jair the Bethlehemite killed the brother of Goliath the Gittite, who had a spear with a shaft like a weaver’s rod.

NKJV
19 Again there was war at Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Jaare-Oregim the Bethlehemite killed the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver’s beam.

Youngs Literal Translation
19 And the battle is again in Gob with the Philistines, and Elhanan son of Jaare-Oregim, the Beth-Lehemite, smiteth [a brother of] Goliath the Gittite, and the wood of his spear [is] like a beam of weavers.[/QUO

I was about to post something similar to this when AV1611VET come through .. Professing themselves wise they become fools , ever learning but never being able to come to understanding of the truth ..

 

[4x4toy]

Fortunately I'm not a false prophet and your hope for others to go into a lake of fire is just the hatred of your own heart.

Nah , you just put yourself in charge of grading God's paper according to your own belief .. How do you think God grades your paper at the judgement seat ? You gonna say "but Lord it was all lies in the Bible"

 

[Kenny'sID]

Fortunately I'm not a false prophet and your hope for others to go into a lake of fire is just the hatred of your own heart

Is anyone ever really fooled by false accusations like this?