Adam & Eve

[civilwarbuff]

And yet, reading the bible has been the biggest barrier to me becoming a believer in its teachings.

Anyone can read the Bible.....understanding it....well that takes things to a whole nother level.....

 

[PsychoSarah]

I'm guessing they weren't called and chosen in the first place ("Many are called but few are chosen"). I don't think God grants understanding to those He hasn't chosen at this time.

So then, why make people or allow people to exist on earth if god already knows who it is going to pick?

 

[civilwarbuff]

so to assume that all of them agree that it is impossible for an atheist to understand the bible is laughable.

Again....1 Cor 2:14.....maybe if I repeat it often enough you will understand it.....

 

[OldWiseGuy]

So then, why make people or allow people to exist on earth if god already knows who it is going to pick?

No worries, eventually everyone will be saved, just not now.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Anyone can read the Bible.....understanding it....well that takes things to a whole nother level.....

Sure, it is by no means an easy read. However, if you don't go into it assuming what it says is true, and you don't have people constantly telling you it is, it reads like a very poorly worded and strange mythological text.

But again, you are assuming that I don't understand what it says. You don't know that I don't. Consider this: the bible stating that people that read it and don't believe it are flawed is an excuse to prevent people from doubting what it says in the face of nonbelievers aware of what it says rather than something factual. The Quran says something similar, but I bet if you read it, you wouldn't become a Muslim.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Again....1 Cor 2:14.....maybe if I repeat it often enough you will understand it.....

I know what it says. How about testing my biblical knowledge instead of counting on the bible to be right. That way, if you can demonstrate I don't get it, more than just your fellow Christians will be impacted by it. It should be really, really easy to show I have some fundamental misunderstanding of the bible.

But then again, I guess that would leave your biblical interpretation more out and about for not only atheists to disagree with, but your fellow Christians as well. If there is no commonality in biblical interpretation amongst believers, then how can you, in good conscience, condemn me for interpreting the text differently than you do?

 

[civilwarbuff]

the bible stating that people that read it and don't believe it are flawed is an excuse to prevent people from doubting what it says in the face of nonbelievers aware of what it says rather than something factual.

Where does the bible say that?

 

[PsychoSarah]

No worries, eventually everyone will be saved, just not now.

I demand biblical evidence for that, especially considering Revelations definitely says some people get thrown in the lake of fire.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Where does the bible say that?

XD XD XD XD XD the bible isn't going to make itself look bad by admitting that one of its claims is just an excuse to prevent people from more easily deconverting.

 

[civilwarbuff]

I know what it says. How about testing my biblical knowledge instead of counting on the bible to be right. That way, if you can demonstrate I don't get it, more than just your fellow Christians will be impacted by it. It should be really, really easy to show I have some fundamental misunderstanding of the bible.

But then again, I guess that would leave your biblical interpretation more out and about for not only atheists to disagree with, but your fellow Christians as well. If there is no commonality in biblical interpretation amongst believers, then how can you, in good conscience, condemn me for interpreting the text differently than you do?

Not testing your biblical knowledge, it is just that 1 Cor 2:14 directly applies to atheists; so I am asking if you understand that verse?

 

[civilwarbuff]

XD XD XD XD XD the bible isn't going to make itself look bad by admitting that one of its claims is just an excuse to prevent people from more easily deconverting.

Consider this: the bible stating that people that read it and don't believe it are flawed is an excuse to prevent people from doubting what it says in the face of nonbelievers aware of what it says rather than something factual.

So you are admitting that the bible really does not say this?....If it does say this can you show me where?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

God's word is like a football or basketball coach's program for their team. The players have to "buy into it", give themselves over to it, in order to understand it and prosper as a team. Players that don't, even if very talented, are eventually removed from the program.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Not testing your biblical knowledge, it is just that 1 Cor 2:14 directly applies to atheists; so I am asking if you understand that verse?

Of course I do. A person that is not in the spirit of god will not only fail to understand the bible, but will also consider the teachings of the bible to be stupid. In short, nonbelievers will not understand the bible, and will view what it says as silly.

There's a bit of a problem though here, because my very existence contradicts not just the misunderstanding bit, but also the "foolishness" bit. I don't think any less of people that believe in the bible than I do other atheists. Heck, I even have a means to explain away just about any discrepancy I do find. Here's the kicker: I still don't believe in the deity depicted in its pages. Although there are some comedic moments in the bible, like that story in Judges where some king is disemboweled, and the foul stench deters the servants from checking up on him because they thought he was making a bowel movement. That was kinda darkly funny.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I demand biblical evidence for that, especially considering Revelations definitely says some people get thrown in the lake of fire.

I'll rephrase that. Most people will be saved.

 

[PsychoSarah]

So you are admitting that the bible really does not say this?....If it does say this can you show me where?

-_- you were mentioning 1 Corinthians 2:14 a couple times, which says
"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." (taken from the King James version).

Which basically means that a person that isn't spiritual or more specifically, a nonbeliever, can't understand the bible or correctly interpret/portray its teachings.

This is the excuse the bible has for the people that don't believe after reading the bible. "surely, anyone that could understand the text would also believe what it says, so anyone that reads it and doesn't believe must not understand it". Or so it claims.

I am not saying that the bible admits that this is the purpose of the passage, but if it isn't, I would love for you to tell me what you think it is for.

 

[PsychoSarah]

I'll rephrase that. Most people will be saved.

Unlikely, considering that less than half the world population at any point in history was Christian.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Of course I do. A person that is not in the spirit of god will not only fail to understand the bible, but will also consider the teachings of the bible to be stupid. In short, nonbelievers will not understand the bible, and will view what it says as silly.

There's a bit of a problem though here, because my very existence contradicts not just the misunderstanding bit, but also the "foolishness" bit. I don't think any less of people that believe in the bible than I do other atheists. Heck, I even have a means to explain away just about any discrepancy I do find. Here's the kicker: I still don't believe in the deity depicted in its pages. Although there are some comedic moments in the bible, like that story in Judges where some king is disemboweled, and the foul stench deters the servants from checking up on him because they thought he was making a bowel movement. That was kinda darkly funny.

My favorite humorous part is in Acts 2:

13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

They usually waited until the sixth hour to get hammered.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Unlikely, considering that less than half the world population at any point in history was Christian.

They'll get the message during the White Throne Judgment period during the millennial reign of Christ. All will be led by the Spirit, Satan will be bound, only the few will be destroyed.

 

[AV1611VET]

How about testing my biblical knowledge instead of counting on the bible to be right.

Satan is a fallen angel.

What is that fallen angel's name?

 

[PsychoSarah]

Satan is a fallen angel.

What is that fallen angel's name?

I've heard arguments for either Lucifer or Samael. Given that you hold the King James Bible so highly, I think it is safe to say that to you, the correct answer would be Lucifer. Personally, I am a fan of Ol' Scratch ;p

I feel like you have asked me this question before. I think I need something harder than that, or at the very least, a nice bible paragraph to evaluate.