LDS Which Church Really Saves?

[ToBeLoved]

Some speculate that the wedding where he turned water into wine was His.

King James Bible John 21:25
And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

I'm liking that you are using Bible verses!

 

[Ironhold]

Mormons are taught that Jesus was married. In fact, He was a polygamist. The popular notion has always been He married sisters Mary and Martha, and Mary Magdalene. But that's another subject with multiple tentacles they hope won't be brought up. Personally I wouldn't. Diversion is a well-used tool for some.

[citation needed]

I've seen numerous quips from leaders speculating on the topic, but I've not seen anything with official weight that says so.

 

[Ironhold]

Thanks. I appreciate your openness. There are Catholic posters here who would pounce on you for admitting that there are actually Christians outside of the Catholic Church. The LDS is in a similar state now where many Mormons are unsure, at best, if non-Mormons can be Christians. So, what they are given is the nonsense that everyone is really saved (resurrected) and, therefore, every person who has ever been born is saved. However, only a select few Mormons are actually going to heaven to live with Jesus and have a celestial marriage where they spend their time copulating with their wife (or wives, according to Mr. Smith).

This isn't even close to the actual theology.

This is -

https://www.lds.org/manual/the-plan-of-salvation?lang=eng

 

[Ironhold]

Now, the familiar LDS response is that the Bible was rewritten many centuries later during the Great Apostasy.

Can you show me anyone who is LDS who says that the Bible was re-written to remove references to Jesus being married?

 

[Ironhold]

Most people are not spending eternity with God in Mormonism.

[citation needed]

 

[Colter]

How can a person tell? I'll give my answer after several responses.

Simple faith saves.

Denominations divide believers, the religion of the spirit brings believers together.

 

[tickingclocker]

[citation needed]

I've seen numerous quips from leaders speculating on the topic, but I've not seen anything with official weight that says so.

I did say it was a Mormon "tradition", not doctrine. Didn't I.

 

[tickingclocker]

Some speculate that the wedding where he turned water into wine was His.

King James Bible John 21:25
And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

And LDS always pull this one out and wave it in your face when they want to shore up their doctrines which have very little (to none) biblical support. Yes, I KNOW!! There is NOT the barest breath of a hint throughout the entire bible that Messiah NEEDED to be married. Like I said, Christianity could care less whether He was married--or not, had dozens of kids--or not. Christianity does NOT depend upon Jesus being married in any facet of doctrine. We have nothing to lose from either side.

Mormonism, however, DOES.

 

[tickingclocker]

But..but, the Bible doesn't state his wife and kids weren't there.

They probably couldn't afford the bus fare to Golgotha Hill. Jesus apparently ran out on them.... to hang with his homeys? See how silly this LDS belief is? They have to drag Jesus Christ, the living Son of a Holy God, down to their level in order to shore up JS as "prophet". (More like a faint.)

 

[tickingclocker]

But super weird to be giving care of His mother to one of His disciples if He had a missus who could help care for the Theotokos-in-law.

-CryptoLutheran

THREE missus. Not just one. Perhaps Mary was such a terrible mother-in-law, none of her daughters-in-law wanted to bother with the mother of the LIVING SON of GOD?

And I must apologize to Ironhold. I thought I had originally stated it was Mormon "tradition" that Jesus married sisters Mary and Martha, and Mary Magdalene. I said it was a "popular notion" instead. But I never said this was part of LDS "doctrine". The wives tale (literally--yuk, yuk!) is a longstanding LDS tradition. Not all Mormons believe it either.

 

[BornAgainChristian1]

How can a person tell? I'll give my answer after several responses.

We are not saved through the church, sacraments or other people but in fact by undeserved grace only.


Ephesians 2:7-91599 Geneva Bible (GNV)
7 That he might show in the ages to come the exceeding riches of his grace through his kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God,

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast himself.

 

[BornAgainChristian1]

They probably couldn't afford the bus fare to Golgotha Hill. Jesus apparently ran out on them.... to hang with his homeys? See how silly this LDS tradition is? They have to drag Jesus Christ, the living Son of a Holy God, down to their level in order to shore up JS as "prophet". (More like a faint.)

Funny thing is Joey Smith and Mohammad have much in common.

 

[tickingclocker]

Saved from what?

Every mortal will be saved from the permanence of death and receive eternal life except those that commit the unpardable sin.

You are right. Mormons are not saved. I stand corrected by you. There is no true "salvation" within mormonism.... because Mormons don't.... sin?

Salvation is for sinners, saved by grace. You mean, there is no grace--either? (More like a faint.)

OOOOH! I just found the mother of all smileys below! Yay!

 

[Rescued One]

[citation needed]

"The Church of the Firstborn is the church among exalted beings in the highest heaven of the celestial world. It is the church among those for whom the family unit continues in eternity. In a sense it is the inner circle within the Lord's church on earth. It is composed of those who have entered into that patriarchal order which is called the new and everlasting covenant of marriage. As baptism admits repentant souls to membership in the earthly church, so celestial marriage opens the door to membership in the heavenly church."
Bruce R. McConkie, The Promised Messiah, p. 47

COMPLETE OBEDIENCE BRINGS ETERNAL LIFE. But to be exalted one must keep the whole law. This is the great love he shows forth for his children: notwithstanding they sin and close their eyes against the truth, yet his arm is stretched out still, and he will feel after them and bring them back if they will keep his commandments; and if not, he will do for them just the best he can. Is going to bless them with all it is possible to give, and all shall be saved; all others will receive a place somewhere and it will be glorious unto them, but to receive the exaltation of the righteous, in other words eternal life, the commandments of the Lord must be kept in all things.
Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2:6


The ordinances of the temple, the endowment and sealings, pertain to exaltation in the celestial kingdom, where the sons and daughters are. The sons and daughters are not outside in some other kingdom. The sons and daughters go into the house, belong to the household, have access to the home. ‘In my Father’s house are many mansions’ [John 14:2]. Sons and daughters have access to the home where he dwells, and you cannot receive that access until you go to the temple. Why? Because you must receive certain key words as well as make covenants by which you are able to enter. If you try to get into the house, and the door is locked, how are you going to enter, if you haven’t your key? You get your key in the temple, which will admit you.. . . You cannot find a key on the street, for that key is never lost that will open the door that enters into our Father’s mansions. You have got to go where the key is given. And each can obtain the key, if you will; but after receiving it, you may lose it, by having it taken away from you again unless you abide by the agreement which you entered into when you went into the house of the Lord...There will be many who are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who shall never become members of the Church of the Firstborn.
Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2:40–41

 

[Ironhold]

"The Church of the Firstborn is the church among exalted beings in the highest heaven of the celestial world. It is the church among those for whom the family unit continues in eternity. In a sense it is the inner circle within the Lord's church on earth. It is composed of those who have entered into that patriarchal order which is called the new and everlasting covenant of marriage. As baptism admits repentant souls to membership in the earthly church, so celestial marriage opens the door to membership in the heavenly church."
Bruce R. McConkie, The Promised Messiah, p. 47

COMPLETE OBEDIENCE BRINGS ETERNAL LIFE. But to be exalted one must keep the whole law. This is the great love he shows forth for his children: notwithstanding they sin and close their eyes against the truth, yet his arm is stretched out still, and he will feel after them and bring them back if they will keep his commandments; and if not, he will do for them just the best he can. Is going to bless them with all it is possible to give, and all shall be saved; all others will receive a place somewhere and it will be glorious unto them, but to receive the exaltation of the righteous, in other words eternal life, the commandments of the Lord must be kept in all things.
Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2:6


The ordinances of the temple, the endowment and sealings, pertain to exaltation in the celestial kingdom, where the sons and daughters are. The sons and daughters are not outside in some other kingdom. The sons and daughters go into the house, belong to the household, have access to the home. ‘In my Father’s house are many mansions’ [John 14:2]. Sons and daughters have access to the home where he dwells, and you cannot receive that access until you go to the temple. Why? Because you must receive certain key words as well as make covenants by which you are able to enter. If you try to get into the house, and the door is locked, how are you going to enter, if you haven’t your key? You get your key in the temple, which will admit you.. . . You cannot find a key on the street, for that key is never lost that will open the door that enters into our Father’s mansions. You have got to go where the key is given. And each can obtain the key, if you will; but after receiving it, you may lose it, by having it taken away from you again unless you abide by the agreement which you entered into when you went into the house of the Lord...There will be many who are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who shall never become members of the Church of the Firstborn.
Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2:40–41

Got anything regarded as officially-sanctioned material?

 

[Super14LDS]

I'm liking that you are using Bible verses!

Thank you, when ever possible it's best to cite something we can all agree on. I'm liking you figured out the smile shortcut. )

 

[Super14LDS]

They probably couldn't afford the bus fare to Golgotha Hill. Jesus apparently ran out on them.... to hang with his homeys? See how silly this LDS belief is? They have to drag Jesus Christ, the living Son of a Holy God, down to their level in order to shore up JS as "prophet". (More like a faint.)

Never mind the legion of angels and miraculous wonders at His command. They crucified Him; what would of happened to His family?

Vicarious ordinances are availble to all who have lived prior to the resurrection.

KJV John 21:25
And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen

That's a lot of books!

 

[BornAgainChristian1]

Never mind the legion of angels and miraculous wonders at His command. They crucified Him; what would of happened to His family?

Vicarious ordinances are availble to all who have lived prior to the resurrection.

KJV John 21:25
And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen

That's a lot of books!

How about the book of Abraham?

 

[Four Angels Standing]

[citation needed]

I've seen numerous quips from leaders speculating on the topic, but I've not seen anything with official weight that says so.

The Marriage Relations
A Lecture by President Orson Hyde, Delivered at the General Conference, in the Tabernacle, Great Salt Lake City, October 6, 1854.
Reported by G. D. Watt.
....Gentlemen, that is as plain as the translators, or different councils over this Scripture, dare allow it to go to the world, but the thing is there; it is told; Jesus was the bridegroom at the marriage of Cana of Galilee, and he told them what to do.

Now there was actually a marriage; and if Jesus was not the bridegroom on that occasion, please tell who was. If any man can show this, and prove that it was not the Savior of the world, then I will acknowledge I am in error. We say it was Jesus Christ who was married, to be brought into the relation whereby he could see his seed, before he was crucified. “Has he indeed passed by the nature of angels, and taken upon himself the seed of Abraham, to die without leaving a seed to bear his name on the earth?” No. But when the secret is fully out, the seed of the blessed shall be gathered in, in the last days; and he who has not the blood of Abraham flowing in his veins, who has not one particle of the Savior's in him, I am afraid is a stereotyped Gentile, who will be left out and not be gathered in the last days; for I tell you it is the chosen of God, the seed of the blessed, that shall be gathered. I do not despise to be called a son of Abraham, if he had a dozen wives; or to be called a brother, a son, a child of the Savior, if he had Mary, and Martha, and several others, as wives; and though he did cast seven devils out of one of them, it is all the same to me.

 

[BornAgainChristian1]

The Marriage Relations
A Lecture by President Orson Hyde, Delivered at the General Conference, in the Tabernacle, Great Salt Lake City, October 6, 1854.
Reported by G. D. Watt.
....Gentlemen, that is as plain as the translators, or different councils over this Scripture, dare allow it to go to the world, but the thing is there; it is told; Jesus was the bridegroom at the marriage of Cana of Galilee, and he told them what to do.

Now there was actually a marriage; and if Jesus was not the bridegroom on that occasion, please tell who was. If any man can show this, and prove that it was not the Savior of the world, then I will acknowledge I am in error. We say it was Jesus Christ who was married, to be brought into the relation whereby he could see his seed, before he was crucified. “Has he indeed passed by the nature of angels, and taken upon himself the seed of Abraham, to die without leaving a seed to bear his name on the earth?” No. But when the secret is fully out, the seed of the blessed shall be gathered in, in the last days; and he who has not the blood of Abraham flowing in his veins, who has not one particle of the Savior's in him, I am afraid is a stereotyped Gentile, who will be left out and not be gathered in the last days; for I tell you it is the chosen of God, the seed of the blessed, that shall be gathered. I do not despise to be called a son of Abraham, if he had a dozen wives; or to be called a brother, a son, a child of the Savior, if he had Mary, and Martha, and several others, as wives; and though he did cast seven devils out of one of them, it is all the same to me.

You are correct and scripture does in fact prove mormon error because it plainly states that Jesus was called "invited" to the wedding as His mother and others......

John 2 :
1 And the third day, was there a marriage in Cana a town of Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there.

2 And Jesus was called also, and his disciples unto the marriage.

3 Now when the wine failed, the mother of Jesus said unto him, They have no wine.