LDS Which Church Really Saves?

[AlexDTX]

How can a person tell? I'll give my answer after several responses.

None. Only Jesus saves.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Glad to see that all main stream Christians are unified in the understanding of salvation. Gives me goose bumps

It should. You should take it as a sign from the Holy Spirit.

 

[Winken]

Only Jesus saves, by God's Grace through Faith, one person at a time. Romans 10:8-13. Those who call attention to this Gospel Truth are witnesses, messengers, pastor-teachers. As such they have no authority to save: only to testify.

Church = Body of Christ, authentically called-out Believers in Him as Savior.

church = an assembly of persons.

church building = a building.

When one points to a building and says "that church over there," the church building is indicated, not the Body of Christ. The Church is not a building.

 

[Rescued One]

Read it again. Here is what Jesus says: " Truly, I say to you, among those born of women there has arisen no one greater than John the Baptist. Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he."

The key is that there is somebody who is LEAST in Heaven. There are ranks in heaven. The least in heaven is greater than the greatest on earth, but there are greater and lesser in heaven. That's what that text tells us.

Which means that everybody in heaven is not equal. There are the greater in heaven, and there are the lesser in heaven. Just as there are greater and lesser angels, there are (or will be) greater and lesser humans. Which means that everybody isn't equal in Heaven, and we know that for a fact because Jesus said so.

I believe all Christians in heaven have all spiritual blessings in Christ. We are there because of what He did, not because of what we did.
Ephesians 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Which blessings will we lack in heaven?

2 Corinthians 3:5
Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

 

[Rescued One]

Our rewards are for what?

• But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Matthew 20
1 For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard. 2 And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard. 3 And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace, 4 And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way. 5 Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise.6 And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle? 7 They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive.

8 So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first. 9 And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny. 10 But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny. 11 And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house, 12 Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day. 13 But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny? 14 Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee. 15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?

2 Timothy 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Psalm 127: 1
A Song of degrees for Solomon. Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.

Every single good work that we do is done by Christ working in us.

Luke 17:10
So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

 

[Super14LDS]

Read it again. Here is what Jesus says: " Truly, I say to you, among those born of women there has arisen no one greater than John the Baptist. Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he."

The key is that there is somebody who is LEAST in Heaven. There are ranks in heaven. The least in heaven is greater than the greatest on earth, but there are greater and lesser in heaven. That's what that text tells us.

Which means that everybody in heaven is not equal. There are the greater in heaven, and there are the lesser in heaven. Just as there are greater and lesser angels, there are (or will be) greater and lesser humans. Which means that everybody isn't equal in Heaven, and we know that for a fact because Jesus said so.

Thank you for your keen observation; John's lesser status must be of his own choosing not to get married.

... In order to obtain the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom, marriage must be in place first. And that marriage must happen in this life. Jesus taught us in Matt 22:30 (see also Mark 12:25)

“For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven”

This is expanded a bit in Luke 20:34-35

“And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:”

From these teachings we know that marriage is a work that must be accomplished in this life. Marriage will not be performed on resurrected beings.

However, we also know from latter-day teachings that those who are worthy and willing, but do not have the chance for marriage, will not be deprived of exaltation. ... http://askgramps.org/will-single-sisters-able-marry-celestial-kingdom/

John's assignment means Celestial Marriage was available during his lifetime and he choose to remain single. All, with rare exception, will ultimately enjoy a glorious eternal life!

Celestial Marriage was apparently being performed in the Temples during Christ's mortal ministry. Thank you again for adding to my understanding.

 

[bloodbought09]

... First, all mortals have been saved from the permanence of death through the Resurrection of Jesus Christ. “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive” (1 Cor. 15:22). ...

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1998/04/have-you-been-saved?lang=eng

This means that if you are still in Adam and not Christ, you will die. You have to be in Christ. Jesus Christ was never the spiritual brother of Lucifer. You and I have a different Jesus Christ. All are made alive in Christ, if they choose Christ. Not everyone in this world is alive without accepting or knowing Jesus Christ.

 

[tickingclocker]

Yes the Church saves but no it doesn't.

LOL!!

 

[tickingclocker]

What's the purpose of the Church then?

Well, what is the purpose of a family? Same thing as a church. Safety in numbers, no man is an island, etc. We assemble together to encourage each other in the Lord, and to praise and worship God. Simple.

If you had asked what the purpose of the individual Christian (aka church) is, then I would have said--to witness to the lost. We are witnesses to Jesus Christ and His power, glory, and authority through our testimony of Him in our lives. Not "co-saviors" with Him. Has it ever occurred to you that Jesus Christ doesn't really need us in order to do... anything? He invites us along. (Even some Mormons have been known to be aware of that fact ;D ).

Drat, still don't have that smiley face thing down pat yet!

 

[Super14LDS]

Also the Church administers the sacraments which is part of the salvation process.

John is correct about the sacrament, and that salvation is a life long process.

Here is some historical perspective of the sacrament leading up to the restoration of the sacramental prayers.

... Paul notes that the Savior gave a commandment to perform this ordinance regularly, "As often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew [i.e., testify of] the Lord's death till he come" (1 Cor. 11:26). The New Testament indicates that the injunction was observed in the early Christian Church (cf. Acts 2:42;20:7). To the Saints at Corinth, Paul wrote in plainness of the simple ordinance which he had received from the Lord, stressing that it was done "in remembrance of [Jesus Christ]" (1 Cor. 11:19-26; cf. Luke 22:19; 3 Ne. 18:7).

The time and setting chosen by Jesus for administering the Sacrament among his Jerusalem disciples tie this ordinance to the older observances of the Passover, including the bread and wine he used, and to which he gave new symbolism (Matt. 26:26-28; Luke 22:15-20). Through his Atonement Christ fulfilled the purpose of the ordinance of animal sacrifice found in the Old Testament, which was to prefigure the ultimate sacrifice of the Son of God. The new ordinance replaced the need for animal sacrifice with the sacrifice on the part of Christ's followers of a broken heart and contrite spirit (3 Ne. 9:18-20).

The sermon that Jesus delivered on the topic of the "bread of life" in the Gospel of John draws on the symbolism of the Lord himself as "the living bread which came down from heaven." It also prefigures the ordinance of the Sacrament that he initiated later as a reminder to all that salvation comes only through "the living bread" and the "living water" (cf. John 6:48-58). In the postapostolic age, however, theologians transformed the symbolic nature of the Sacrament of the Lord's Supper into the dogma of transubstantiation, thereby introducing the notion that those who partake of the bread and wine miraculously ingest the literal body and blood of Christ, although the outward appearance of the emblems (i.e., the accidentals) remain the same. The LDS Church rejects this dogma and holds that the Sacrament is to help the Saints remember Jesus and that the transformation envisioned is a renovation of the human soul by the Spirit (D&C 20:75-79).

... Unbaptized children, however, being without sin, are entitled and expected to partake of the Sacrament to prefigure the covenant they themselves will make at the age of accountability, age eight (see Children: Salvation of Children). In administering the Sacrament, Christ himself used emblems readily at hand at the Last Supper-bread and wine. To Joseph Smith the Lord declared "that it mattereth not what ye shall eat or what ye shall drink when ye partake of the Sacrament, if it so be that ye do it with an eye single to my glory-remembering unto the Father my body which was laid down for you, and my blood which was shed for the remission of your sins" (D&C 27:2). In typical LDS practice, bread and water are used.

The ordinance of the Sacrament is administered by "those having authority"-that is, by priesthood bearers. According to modern revelation, priests in the Aaronic Priesthood and any Melchizedek Priesthood holder may officiate at the Sacrament table; in general practice, the table is prepared by teachers in the Aaronic Priesthood, and the bread and water are blessed by priests and passed to the members of the Church by deacons in the same priesthood.

The prayers spoken over these emblems are among the few that are scripturally prescribed exactly. Those who partake of the Sacrament place themselves under covenant with the Lord to take upon them the name of Christ, to always remember him, and to keep his commandments. The Lord in turn covenants that they may always have his Spirit to be with them (D&C 20: 75-79; Moro. 4-5; John 6:54). [See also Atonement of Jesus Christ; Communion; Last Supper.]

Sacrament: Sacrament Prayers
Author: TANNER, JOHN S.
The Sacrament prayers, which were revealed by the Lord ...

http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Sacrament

 

[rturner76]

Did you know that Lutherans have a doctrine similar to transubstantiation called Sacramental Union?

I never heard of that and I took Luther's Catechism. So do they still believe it is a symbol of Christ or actually Christ;s body and blood?

 

[bbbbbbb]

Thank you for your keen observation; John's lesser status must be of his own choosing not to get married.

... In order to obtain the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom, marriage must be in place first. And that marriage must happen in this life. Jesus taught us in Matt 22:30 (see also Mark 12:25)

“For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven”

This is expanded a bit in Luke 20:34-35

“And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:”

From these teachings we know that marriage is a work that must be accomplished in this life. Marriage will not be performed on resurrected beings.

However, we also know from latter-day teachings that those who are worthy and willing, but do not have the chance for marriage, will not be deprived of exaltation. ... http://askgramps.org/will-single-sisters-able-marry-celestial-kingdom/

John's assignment means Celestial Marriage was available during his lifetime and he choose to remain single. All, with rare exception, will ultimately enjoy a glorious eternal life!

Celestial Marriage was apparently being performed in the Temples during Christ's mortal ministry. Thank you again for adding to my understanding.

Interestingly, Jesus' lesser status is probably also related to His failure to marry, don'cha think?

 

[bbbbbbb]

I never heard of that and I took Luther's Catechism. So do they still believe it is a symbol of Christ or actually Christ;s body and blood?

You might want to go to the Lutheran board for some clear answers. I am sure they can help you there.

 

[ToBeLoved]

John is correct about the sacrament, and that salvation is a life long process.

Here is some historical perspective of the sacrament leading up to the restoration of the sacramental prayers.

... Paul notes that the Savior gave a commandment to perform this ordinance regularly, "As often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew [i.e., testify of] the Lord's death till he come" (1 Cor. 11:26). The New Testament indicates that the injunction was observed in the early Christian Church (cf. Acts 2:42;20:7). To the Saints at Corinth, Paul wrote in plainness of the simple ordinance which he had received from the Lord, stressing that it was done "in remembrance of [Jesus Christ]" (1 Cor. 11:19-26; cf. Luke 22:19; 3 Ne. 18:7).

The time and setting chosen by Jesus for administering the Sacrament among his Jerusalem disciples tie this ordinance to the older observances of the Passover, including the bread and wine he used, and to which he gave new symbolism (Matt. 26:26-28; Luke 22:15-20). Through his Atonement Christ fulfilled the purpose of the ordinance of animal sacrifice found in the Old Testament, which was to prefigure the ultimate sacrifice of the Son of God. The new ordinance replaced the need for animal sacrifice with the sacrifice on the part of Christ's followers of a broken heart and contrite spirit (3 Ne. 9:18-20).

The sermon that Jesus delivered on the topic of the "bread of life" in the Gospel of John draws on the symbolism of the Lord himself as "the living bread which came down from heaven." It also prefigures the ordinance of the Sacrament that he initiated later as a reminder to all that salvation comes only through "the living bread" and the "living water" (cf. John 6:48-58). In the postapostolic age, however, theologians transformed the symbolic nature of the Sacrament of the Lord's Supper into the dogma of transubstantiation, thereby introducing the notion that those who partake of the bread and wine miraculously ingest the literal body and blood of Christ, although the outward appearance of the emblems (i.e., the accidentals) remain the same. The LDS Church rejects this dogma and holds that the Sacrament is to help the Saints remember Jesus and that the transformation envisioned is a renovation of the human soul by the Spirit (D&C 20:75-79).

... Unbaptized children, however, being without sin, are entitled and expected to partake of the Sacrament to prefigure the covenant they themselves will make at the age of accountability, age eight (see Children: Salvation of Children). In administering the Sacrament, Christ himself used emblems readily at hand at the Last Supper-bread and wine. To Joseph Smith the Lord declared "that it mattereth not what ye shall eat or what ye shall drink when ye partake of the Sacrament, if it so be that ye do it with an eye single to my glory-remembering unto the Father my body which was laid down for you, and my blood which was shed for the remission of your sins" (D&C 27:2). In typical LDS practice, bread and water are used.

The ordinance of the Sacrament is administered by "those having authority"-that is, by priesthood bearers. According to modern revelation, priests in the Aaronic Priesthood and any Melchizedek Priesthood holder may officiate at the Sacrament table; in general practice, the table is prepared by teachers in the Aaronic Priesthood, and the bread and water are blessed by priests and passed to the members of the Church by deacons in the same priesthood.

The prayers spoken over these emblems are among the few that are scripturally prescribed exactly. Those who partake of the Sacrament place themselves under covenant with the Lord to take upon them the name of Christ, to always remember him, and to keep his commandments. The Lord in turn covenants that they may always have his Spirit to be with them (D&C 20: 75-79; Moro. 4-5; John 6:54). [See also Atonement of Jesus Christ; Communion; Last Supper.]

Sacrament: Sacrament Prayers
Author: TANNER, JOHN S.
The Sacrament prayers, which were revealed by the Lord ...

http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Sacrament

I am not responding because it is not even your own words.

 

[rturner76]

Back to the topic at hand. It seems to me that there are many similarities between your denomination and the LDS, not the least being claims of being the One and Only True Church of God.

True that. I think on modern times, the Catholic church has loosened up on saying it is the ONLY church. From my understanding now it's considered that God takes many forms but if you want the purest teaching of Christ you find it in the Catholic church. Something like that but don't quote me. I mean I have heard Homilies where Gandhi has been quoted and used as an example of how to live so thet particular Priest didn;t believe there was only one true church and everybody else has it wrong.

More to the point I think it's about how you live like in this passage

Matt 25:31-40 ESV “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the…

My personal opinion is of you are doing these things you are a member of God's church no matter what you call yourself even if you just call yourself happy to help. So really I think the sheep belong to the one true church kind of like it points to in the passage

 

[throughfiierytrial]

How can a person tell? I'll give my answer after several responses.

Short answer...conservative Lutheranism. Why? they practice all the same practices as the rest of the protestant world...for the most part...and are the only church body which offers true Biblical communion. The proper communion practice is oh so important to life and salvation...see John 6:53-55:
53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.

Now see I Corinthians 11:27-30:
So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without recognizing the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep.

Important to get that right.
Read your Scriptures carefully and see if the Biblical practices are present in a church.

 

[GillDouglas]

Short answer...conservative Lutheranism. Why? they practice all the same practices as the rest of the protestant world...for the most part...and are the only church body which offers true Biblical communion. The proper communion practice is oh so important to life and salvation...see John 6:53-55:
53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.

Now see I Corinthians 11:27-30:
So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without recognizing the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep.

Important to get that right.
Read your Scriptures carefully and see if the Biblical practices are present in a church.

As if we need more stumbling blocks in our walk. You cannot preach perfect worship when you yourself cannot worship perfectly. God doesn't require perfect worship. Maybe you can tell us how many times to chew the bread before we swallow, otherwise we might lose our salvation. Ridiculous.

 

[Super14LDS]

Interestingly, Jesus' lesser status is probably also related to His failure to marry, don'cha think?

What scripture(s) are you referencing?

 

[tickingclocker]

Short answer...conservative Lutheranism. Why? they practice all the same practices as the rest of the protestant world...for the most part...and are the only church body which offers true Biblical communion. The proper communion practice is oh so important to life and salvation...see John 6:53-55:
53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.

Now see I Corinthians 11:27-30:
So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without recognizing the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep.

Important to get that right.
Read your Scriptures carefully and see if the Biblical practices are present in a church.

Could you explain what you meant by "oh so important" to life and salvation? I've known Lutherans (who are extremely spiritually conservative) and they have never noted that one requires receiving communion in order to be saved.

How often should you do this in your view? The standard once a month? Every week? Every day? We all sin every day. Should we go to God and ask for His forgiveness each day then take communion in your view?

 

[tickingclocker]

I mean I have heard Homilies where Gandhi has been quoted and used as an example of how to live so thet particular Priest didn;t believe there was only one true church and everybody else has it wrong.

I wonder if Ghandi would have admired Mother Theresa. Not everyone always did.