10 Reasons Jesus Would Never Win The American Evangelical Vote

[expos4ever]

I really wish the whiners were able to opt out of paying taxes because then they can be made to stay off our highways, and stop using our infrastructure.

I really find this "taxation is stealing" argument to be rather strange. Surely the people who use it must know that they vote to be taxed.

And in the US, at least, no one puts a gun to their heads.

Does everyone vote to be taxed? Of course not? But everyone uses the services and infrastructure that taxation supports.

So I just don't get it.

 

[Pwnerer]

I really wish the whiners were able to opt out of paying taxes because then they can be made to stay off our highways, and stop using our infrastructure.

I really wish the whiners whining about stop whining about other people not paying more and would put their money where their mouths are and use their current ability to overpay their taxes by donating to the IRS.

 

[expos4ever]

I just don't think Jesus meant steal from Peter to pay Paul. The visible church has really dropped the ball as far as taking care of each other, so government had to intervene, or government intervened which made it easier for the church to let them?? Either way, misplaced roles

Who is stealing?

When someone takes your money at gunpoint, that is stealing.

But when the citizens of a nation freely vote to be taxed, knowing full well what that means, it is hardly stealing.

Either way, clearly the church cannot be the means by which common goods like hospitals, roads, airports, and welfare are financed - the entire society has to participate.

 

[Pwnerer]

Who is stealing?

When someone takes your money at gunpoint, that is stealing.

But when the citizens of a nation freely vote to be taxed, knowing full well what that means, it is hardly stealing.

Either way, clearly the church cannot be the means by which common goods like hospitals, roads, airports, and welfare are financed - the entire society has to participate.

None of what you're writing is even true. A majority votes for representatives who then vote on various issues. Given most tax dollars come from a few among the population, you can hardly say that everyone is voting to waste their hard earned dollars on nonsense. Even if we had a democracy (the USA is not a democracy), then there could still be a minority beholden to the will of the majority.

Anyway, you know you can donate to the IRS in addition to your taxes? If you think taxes are so gung ho and love 'participating', then go do that and let us know how generous you were.

 

[expos4ever]

Given most tax dollars come from a few among the population, you can hardly say that everyone is voting to waste their hard earned dollars on nonsense.

I do not follow your reasoning. You vote for progressive taxation (the rich pay more) and that is what you get.

Even if we had a democracy (the USA is not a democracy), then there could still be a minority beholden to the will of the majority.

I assume you think that the rich "minority" are somehow "forced" to pay against their will to support the poorer "majority". Well, first there are some rich people who, through generosity of spirit and a realization that their wealth is often attributable, at least in part, to having more opportunity, are more than willing to pay a progressive tax. I am not sure what excuse, except greed, is available to the rest.

 

[Pwnerer]

I do not follow your reasoning. You vote for progressive taxation (the rich pay more) and that is what you get.


I assume you think that the rich "minority" are somehow "forced" to pay against their will to support the poorer "majority". Well, first there are some rich people who, through generosity of spirit and a realization that their wealth is often attributable, at least in part, to having more opportunity, are more than willing to pay a progressive tax. I am not sure what excuse, except greed, is available to the rest.

So where is the ballot where they vote to be taxed? If you can't supply it then your statement is false. Otherwise, show me where people can opt out of paying taxes and not be prosecuted. The bottom line is virtually everyone has no choice but to pay taxes. By definition, a tax is a fee or payment that is forcibly taken. If it's not involuntary, then it's not a tax.

I am not sure what excuse, except greed, is available to the rest.

They don't need an excuse for wanting to keep the wealth they generated. You need an excuse for caring so, so much about other people's belongings ... as if it were yours to begin with. You have no right to it.

 

[Thunder Peel]

I'm so glad our president is concerned about being our "brother's keeper" and "doing undo others"

Nearly 94 million Americans are out of work, 46 million are on food stamps and various other assistance programs, millions of illegals are crossing our borders unchecked, Obamacare has caused premiums to go up, we're nearing $20 trillion in national debt and ISIS continues to spread over the globe, all while Obama watches ballgames in communist countries and plays golf.

Obama is great at looking after himself, as always. The rest of us are just trying to stay afloat.

 

[expos4ever]

So where is the ballot where they vote to be taxed?

You vote for a party knowing full well that they will tax you. If you do not know this, then you need to learn more about the party for whom you are voting. No credible party in a modern western society will not tax you.

Otherwise, show me where people can opt out of paying taxes and not be prosecuted.

You can't, of course. But that is perfectly fair precisely because there is no practical way to do the fair things if you were to opt out of paying taxes - namely deny you the right to use roads, hospitals, and to be defended by the military (all the things that tax dollars support). If there were a way to deny you those services, then, yes, I suppose it would be fair to let you opt out.

And, slander people all you want, but it doesn't really prove anything. The whole assumption about greed thing ---pretty laughable. I mean, wanting to take what someone earned, forcibly --that's not greed.; wanting to keep the wealth you generated --that's greed!

1. In a free society when you freely vote for a party that has told you it will indeed tax you, you are committing to pay those taxes;
2. It is deeply misleading to imply that people generate wealth "on their own" - they almost always take advantage of public goods - schools, infrastructure, police services, etc in the course of generating wealth. So they have a moral obligation to pay for those public goods.

 

[Hetta]

I really wish the whiners whining about stop whining about other people not paying more and would put their money where their mouths are and use their current ability to overpay their taxes by donating to the IRS.

I cheerfully pay my taxes, and every time I am given a merit raise - which is annually - I do pay more to the IRS. Again, without complaining.

But the whiners who don't want to pay taxes can get off our highways. Period.

 

[Pwnerer]

You vote for a party knowing full well that they will tax you. If you do not know this, then you need to learn more about the party for whom you are voting. No credible party in a modern western society will not tax you.


You can't, of course. But that is perfectly fair precisely because there is no practical way to do the fair things if you were to opt out of paying taxes - namely deny you the right to use roads, hospitals, and to be defended by the military (all the things that tax dollars support). If there were a way to deny you those services, then, yes, I suppose it would be fair to let you opt out.


1. In a free society when you freely vote for a party that has told you it will indeed tax you, you are committing to pay those taxes;

OK, so, the bottom line is: people don't freely vote to be taxed. They don't even vote directly on taxation. And besides, you're ignoring that most people don't vote.
Anyways, on to this regressive nonsense:

2. It is deeply misleading to imply that people generate wealth "on their own" - they almost always take advantage of public goods - schools, infrastructure, police services, etc in the course of generating wealth. So they have a moral obligation to pay for those public goods.

People do generate wealth on their own. This whole country has its origins in some people hopping on a boat, crossing the ocean, and landing on a hunk of land that was, for practical purposes,uninhabited. How did those roads and schools and infrastructures get built? Tax dollars, from wealth generated by people. This whole "You drive on roads so I steal millions from you" nonsense is deceit from the Devil. It's downright sinful.

I just don't get why people insist on being regressive and are so obsessed with taking what other people have. You know, if you want to help, you could donate to the IRS through their website. Have you done that?

 

[Gwen-is-new!]

Who is stealing?

When someone takes your money at gunpoint, that is stealing.

But when the citizens of a nation freely vote to be taxed, knowing full well what that means, it is hardly stealing.

Either way, clearly the church cannot be the means by which common goods like hospitals, roads, airports, and welfare are financed - the entire society has to participate.

I am really good at misrepresenting myself on this forum because I've never complained about paying taxes one day of my life in the last 30 yrs of paying them. My husband and I actually enjoy a really nice "return" every year! I am referring to the million of able-bodies citizens who don't work when they can, who don't buy health care because they think they are indestructible in their 20s and rather use that premium at the bars every weekend, and then go to the emergency rooms. I am referring to those that make money "under the table".. etc..

From a biblical standpoint - don't work, don't eat (goggle proverbs lazy if interested). Human nature is fallen, and lazy by default (yep, me), and taking my $$ and giving them to someone who can work, or using them to kill a baby, isn't loving, so I don't like that part.. but NOT complaining - all I can do is stay informed to the best of my ability and vote.

 

[Pwnerer]

I cheerfully pay my taxes, and every time I am given a merit raise - which is annually - I do pay more to the IRS. Again, without complaining.

But the whiners who don't want to pay taxes can get off our highways. Period.

Oh OK so the virtually non-existent people who don't want to pay any taxes at all can get off our highways. Smells like herring.

I wasn't asking if you pay what's required of you --which is what you are describing. If you get a raise and the government takes more that is not equivalent to donating. The IRS has a separate donation program. Do you do that?

http://www.fms.treas.gov/faq/moretopics_gifts.html

 

[expos4ever]

I am referring to the million of able-bodies citizens who don't work when they can,.....

While I cannot prove it, I suggest the significant majority of those who are poor are in that state more or less through no fault of their own.

 

[Gwen-is-new!]

Nearly 94 million Americans are out of work, 46 million are on food stamps and various other assistance programs, millions of illegals are crossing our borders unchecked, Obamacare has caused premiums to go up, we're nearing $20 trillion in national debt and ISIS continues to spread over the globe, all while Obama watches ballgames in communist countries and plays golf.

Obama is great at looking after himself, as always. The rest of us are just trying to stay afloat.

Hope you knew I was being sarcastic. Come on now, not just anyone can befriend Castro.

Are you saying "Affordable Health Care" isn't affordable? How about the overall cost of healthcare in the US versus other countries.. taking into account quality healthcare of course?

 

[Gwen-is-new!]

If we donate to the IRS, can we use that as a deduction?

 

[Pwnerer]

While I cannot prove it, I suggest the significant majority of those who are poor are in that state more or less through no fault of their own.

How do you define "poor"? Because if you have poverty-level income in the USA you're still in the wealthiest 11% of humanity.

 

[expos4ever]

OK, so, the bottom line is: people don't freely vote to be taxed.

No the bottom line is precisely the opposite.

You appear to be trying to deny that you should know full well that both the Republicans or the Democrats are going to tax you.

Well, you certainly should know this.

People in a free society freely decide to be taxed - I do not see how this can disputed.

 

[Pwnerer]

If we donate to the IRS, can we use that as a deduction?

Yeah. I donated $100 to the IRS to take a deduction of $50. With the difference maybe I can "invest" in some state lottery tickets!

 

[Pwnerer]

No the bottom line is precisely the opposite.

You appear to be trying to deny that you should know full well that both the Republicans or the Democrats are going to tax you.

Well, you certainly should know this.

People in a free society freely decide to be taxed - I do not see how this can disputed.

Simplistic reasoning is simplistic. Maybe people vote hoping that the candidate will reduce taxes, and the next guy after that will do so more, etc. You can't speak for the country. You're reasoning is like "Women go out of the house knowing there is a risk they could be raped. They KNOW this when they leave. So they are freely choosing to be raped when they leave the home". Bottom line is: nobody votes freely to be taxed. It's more a matter of necessity.

Most people don't even vote... what's your justification for taking their property?

Finally, if you want the government to have more money, you could always make a donation. Have you done that?

 

[expos4ever]

People do generate wealth on their own. This whole country has its origins in some people hopping on a boat, crossing the ocean, and landing on a hunk of land that was, for practical purposes,uninhabited.

Well, if anyone today makes their wealth without using any publically funded infrastructure - schools, roads, communications, hospitals, airports, and the security afforded by the police, I might be willing to give that someone a "pass" on taxation.

How did those roads and schools and infrastructures get built? Tax dollars, from wealth generated by people. This whole "You drive on roads so I steal millions from you" nonsense is deceit from the Devil. It's downright sinful.

No, it is simple, obvious truth. Almost all the wealth people generate these days leverages publically funded infrastructure, at least to some degree.

I just don't get why people insist on being regressive and are so obsessed with taking what other people have.

This is obviously not at all what is going on.

You freely vote to be taxed. If you really wanted to not be taxed, you are free to vote for a party that promises to repeal taxation.