10 Reasons Jesus Would Never Win The American Evangelical Vote

[Pwnerer]

Well, if anyone today makes their wealth without using any publically funded infrastructure - schools, roads, communications, hospitals, airports, and the security afforded by the police, I might be willing to give that someone a "pass" on taxation.


No, it is simple, obvious truth. Almost all the wealth people generate these days leverages publically funded infrastructure, at least to some degree.

OK, so how much of a person's earnings do you think that entitles you to? 10%? 90%? By what right do you think you get to declare open season on their property?

You freely vote to be taxed. If you really wanted to not be taxed, you are free to vote for a party that promises to repeal taxation.

Most people don't vote. So, you can't say in general people freely vote to be taxed. In addition, people are told voting is their duty, so they feel they don't have a choice. So no, most people don't freely vote to be taxed.

 

[expos4ever]

Maybe people vote hoping that the candidate will reduce taxes, and the next guy after that will do so more, etc.

The simple fact remains: the voter should know that they will be taxed if they vote for a certain party.

You're reasoning is like "Women go out of the house knowing there is a risk they could be raped. They KNOW this when they leave.

Please do not insult the reader's intelligence. Women do not vote freely to be raped! Taxpayers do!

Bottom line is: nobody votes freely to be taxed. It's more a matter of necessity.

If the majority of citizens voted for no taxes, then no taxes ye would get.

Most people don't even vote... what's your justification for taking their property?

They use the publically funded infrastructure paid for by taxes!! So there is a clear moral justification for taxing them.

 

[Pwnerer]

The simple fact remains: the voter should know that they will be taxed if they vote for a certain party.

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. The reality is, many people who vote do so hoping that the candidate will be responsible and minimize taxation. So no, you don't get to take them to the cleaners.

Please do not insult the reader's intelligence. Women do not vote freely to be raped! Taxpayers do!

B-b-but women know rapists are out there, and women go out there, so clearly it's open season!

If the majority of citizens voted for no taxes, then no taxes ye would get.

Citizens don't get to vote on if there are taxes.

They use the publically funded infrastructure paid for by taxes!! So there is a clear moral justification for taxing them.

That's your opinion.

Anyways, most people don't vote, so you can't make the generalization that people vote to be taxed.

If you feel the government needs more money, you could always donate to the IRS. Have you done that?

 

[expos4ever]

OK, so how much of a person's earnings do you think that entitles you to? 10%? 90%? By what right do you think you get to declare open season on their property?

What are you talking about? No one is declaring open season. The level of taxation people can expect is more or less known when they vote. And I am not a tax expert so why are you asking me for specific figures. The bottom line is that Americans (I assume you are an American) will freely walk into the ballot box and cast their vote knowing full well they will be taxed and at what rate.

So I do not see how your position has any traction whatsoever. Taxation is a sensible way for societies to raise the money to fund public goods. Or do you think we should close our eyes, cross our finger, and wish real hard for the money to fall out of the sky"

Most people don't vote. So, you can't say in general people freely vote to be taxed.

As already stated, they use the publically-funded infrastructure so it is only fair they pay taxes.

In addition, people are told voting is their duty, so they feel they don't have a choice. So no, most people don't freely vote to be taxed.

Surely ye jest. What kind of person really believes they have "no choice" but to vote?

 

[expos4ever]

That's your opinion.

Don't be ridiculous - everybody uses publically funded infrastructure!

And, no, I have not given money to the IRS but how is that remotely relevant?

 

[Pwnerer]

What are you talking about? No one is declaring open season. The level of taxation people can expect is more or less known when they vote. And I am not a tax expert so why are you asking me for specific figures. The bottom line is that Americans (I assume you are an American) will freely walk into the ballot box and cast their vote knowing full well they will be taxed and at what rate.

So I do not see how your position has any traction whatsoever. Taxation is a sensible way for societies to raise the money to fund public goods. Or do you think we should close our eyes, cross our finger, and wish real hard for the money to fall out of the sky"

I am 100% sure you don't even know my position.

As already stated, they use the publically-funded infrastructure so it is only fair they pay taxes.

That's your opinion; it does not change the fact that most people don't freely vote to be taxed, because most people don't vote.

Surely ye jest. What kind of person really believes they have "no choice" but to vote?

When people believe something is their duty they consider it an obligation, not a choice. It's not uncommon for people to say it's their duty so they have to do it.

 

[expos4ever]

Well, there you have it dear readers - the classical argument that taxation is stealing. Although this should be obvious, here are the problems with it:

1. Voters walk into the ballot booth knowing that they are voting for a candidate/party who has promised to tax them. This is a free decision, made under no compulsion whatsoever;

2. Any kind of modern society requires publically funded infrastructure: roads, schools, hospitals, police, the military, communications systems, etc. All citizens use this infrastructure and have a moral obligation to pay for it.

 

[Pwnerer]

Well, there you have it dear readers - the classical argument that taxation is stealing. Although this should be obvious, here are the problems with it:

1. Voters walk into the ballot booth knowing that they are voting for a candidate/party who has promised to tax them. This is a free decision, made under no compulsion whatsoever;

You keep saying that, but it's generally false. Most people don't even vote.

2. Any kind of modern society requires publically funded infrastructure: roads, schools, hospitals, police, the military, communications systems, etc. All citizens use this infrastructure and have a moral obligation to pay for it.

That's your opinion.

Maybe they see the massive corruption and waste in government, and think it unjustified that the government ask people for even more money than they already pay.
Maybe they have better solutions for how to manage things, but the coercive government forces them to things its way. As a result, they feel no obligation to pay up. A good example of this might be our failing public schools. Or, in some countries, the legal red tape corrupt politicians put up in the way of innovative companies like Uber.
Maybe they see the most humongous national debt in the history of mankind, accrued through downright sinful mismanagement, and think the virtuous thing to do would be to not trust the government with another dollar.

 

[Sketcher]

Oh, this boring tripe again.

Jesus didn't talk about public policy. How I treat my neighbor is not public policy, nor did he ever call for it to be public policy.

 

[expos4ever]

Oh, this boring tripe again.

Jesus didn't talk about public policy. How I treat my neighbor is not public policy, nor did he ever call for it to be public policy.

Of course He did. What is the Kingdom of God if not the rule of God here on earth with all its implications with respect to how we order public life.

 

[PsychoeDial]

If we donate to the IRS, can we use that as a deduction?

He passed from cancer some five years ago however, I knew a business owner who when billed by the IRS deducted that from the next years taxes as a business expense.
I could see his point.

 

[Tiny Bible]

I wonder if Jesus would be unimpressed by the politics behind the denominationalism fracture that has occurred to his word over the centuries.
As for what is contemporary Caesars domain, I venture to say he'd abstain from the vote and certainly from running for office. His people are not of this world. He wouldn't run for the human office that would intend to exercise power in this world when he's the omni-power that makes worlds.

 

[Sketcher]

Of course He did. What is the Kingdom of God if not the rule of God here on earth with all its implications with respect to how we order public life.

It's loving your neighbor and freely giving out of what you have, it is prayer and encouragement and teaching, it is performing healings and other miracles as the Spirit gifts you. It is not fulfilled in any sense by having a tax agency withhold part of your paycheck to fund a system that punishes the poor for trying to escape poverty, that lies to them to keep them dependent and paying their taxes, and that creates artificial shortages of basic goods and services that people need to live. It is also not fulfilled at this time by a totalitarian theocracy, which Heaven will be; God will get it right of course, but man has not, and man's attempts have distorted Christ's message of grace into a brutal message of law.

 

[MoonofIsaiah]

I agree that Jesus would never put his hat in the ring. His was not to rule this world in his time and he wouldn't seek to rule now when the stage is set for his return to a better place when all this is all over.

 

[MoonofIsaiah]

He passed from cancer some five years ago however, I knew a business owner who when billed by the IRS deducted that from the next years taxes as a business expense.
I could see his point.

Me too. It is a business expense after all. Imperative in fact.
I knew a woman who would study her phone bill every month after she first got a landline. She was with a company that is huge in America and owns most of the communications lines. She noticed in her State wherein there's a corporate gross receipts tax that her carrier was charging her, and of course every customer, what that carrier would owe based on the gross total of her monthly bill.
This wasn't something owed by the customer. It was the law that said that carrier had to pay it. But they attached that bill to customer bills. Essentially making it a matter of straight profit to the carrier per customer. Then she noticed the Universal Connectivity Fee, which was passed by Congress years ago and was also the debt of the carrier. It was attached to the customer and this had no allowance in that law either.
Suffice to say, she deducted every single charge of taxes and fees she wasn't owing from every single bill. These amounts totaled at times over $20.00 per month additional. Including a sports tier package tax that she didn't order in her bundle but was taxed for anyway. Verizon is unconscionable but she had a two year bundle so she was stuck. She decided to stick them right back.

After about eight months collections called her about all those deductions. They threatened to turn her into the IRS for the failure to pay the federal side of her communications tax. She told them that would be fine. That if they contacted her she'd send them a copy as she attached with all payments to Verizon. That of the first amendment. Saying that charging a citizen a federal government tax in order for them to be allowed to speak was in violation.

She never heard from anyone again including the IRS for the remainder of her bundle time. After that she installed a free TV system, used her cell phone for what would have been her landline calls, bought a CB base station in the event she had an emergency and didn't have cell phone service,sold her home PC and used the local public library one instead.

Sometimes revolution starts in small pockets.

I like your guy story. That took serious guts.

 

[expos4ever]

Citizens don't get to vote on if there are taxes.

They certainly do get to vote on the matter of taxes!

The various parties and candidates have expressed positions on the matter of taxation. So when a responsible voter enters the ballot box, that person should know what taxes will be levied by the person or party for which they vote.

 

[BlessedHeart]

People do generate wealth on their own.

No one accomplishes anything in this life without some help from others.

No one who succeeds in getting a high paying job which allows them to accrue wealth got that job entirely on their own. They owe their success in part to the established infrastructure of the school, which allowed them to be educated, and which was paid for by others - state and federal tax dollars and corporate funding (if public), or the church and private donors (if parochial). Private schools often receive some taxpayer sponsored funding, if not directly through vouchers than often through the use of public school buses, sports arenas and the like.

You didn't pay your way through elementary, middle and high school. You were treated to a complimentary education by the American taxpayer, whether they paid through taxes, tithes, annuities or fund-raisers. You didn't pay your way through college, either. Most likely, your parents or other relatives sponsored at least a portion of your education. You're also indebted to the school that offered you merit awards, the private scholarship fund(s) that were awarded to you, and the American taxpayer, if you received a Pell grant, a GI Bill or other federal, state or district award. Even if you worked and saved to pay the full tuition price without help, you also didn't pay the full amount that it cost to educate you. Tuition does not cover the full cost. If you went to a public university, it received state and federal funding from American taxpayers. If you went to a private university, the need was met by private and corporate donors, a religious organization or other charities.

You have so many people who have contributed to your success, from supportive parents, relatives who others who believed in you and cheered you on, to teachers and mentors who took a special interest in you. Many people have probably donated their time and attention to teach you something or help you get a break. Someone may have gotten you an internship or a foot in the door that allowed you to get where you are today. You didn't attain this on your own. None of us who are sitting here with the level of wealth that allows us to own computers and have free time to use them can say we did this completely on our own. Someone validated us and gave us the confidence to succeed. Of course, ultimately, we all owe every bit of our success to the Lord who carried us. It's those blessings that sustained us in all we did.

This whole country has its origins in some people hopping on a boat, crossing the ocean, and landing on a hunk of land that was, for practical purposes,uninhabited.

I think the Native American population would disagree with that statement. The many skirmishes and battles that took place between colonists and Native Americans indicate it wasn't an empty space. Those battles, incidentally, were fought by people working in cooperation with one another, where the best shots and best fighters picked up the slack for those without military skill.

You're also making a great case for allowing open immigration. If it was all right for your great-great-greats to barge in uninvited and clear some space for themselves, why is it not acceptable for today's immigrants? I'm actually opposed to illegal immigrants being allowed to remain in the United States, but you've just indicated a legal precedent that someone might point to in defending the practice.

How did those roads and schools and infrastructures get built? Tax dollars, from wealth generated by people. This whole "You drive on roads so I steal millions from you" nonsense is deceit from the Devil. It's downright sinful.

Many of the roads you drive on, you owe to previous generations. A lot of the modern American infrastructure of highways and bridges was built as part of progressive policy implemented after the Great Depression. Asking that you continue to pay taxes to support the development and repair of our infrastructure is hardly "of the Devil". Paying your fair share, as others before you have, should be common sense.

I just don't get why people insist on being regressive and are so obsessed with taking what other people have. You know, if you want to help, you could donate to the IRS through their website. Have you done that?

Reasonable progressive taxation is not taking anything away from you. It's asking you to repay what you've been given by the system, rather than horde the benefits.

As a Christian, it seems you would want to recognize and honor the blessings you've received by going a step further to provide for others, too. The Lord has blessed you with a unique opportunity to be a helper and a giver. I'm not referring exclusively to taxation here. Nothing you've accomplished would've been possible without God. It seems obvious that following His example is the right move.

 

[expos4ever]

Hello Blessed Heart. Great, great post!

 

[chandraclaws]

People do generate wealth on their own. This whole country has its origins in some people hopping on a boat, crossing the ocean, and landing on a hunk of land that was, for practical purposes,uninhabited.

UNINHABITED??? Are you kidding? That is the most unbelievable, arrogant, uneducated comment I have ever heard (read).

 

[PsychoeDial]

People do generate wealth on their own. This whole country has its origins in some people hopping on a boat, crossing the ocean, and landing on a hunk of land that was, for practical purposes,uninhabited.

I hope no one takes that remark seriously.